A open letter to Clan and Omni

[Vixentrox]

1. Invite neutrals to uber loot raids. ---- Why? Most Clans don't get invited by other Clans for "uber" loot raids. You think you should be different or special?

2. Use diplomatic means to get back mines originally held by neutrals. --- Clans don't always help get your original land back if you are Clan....why do it for you?

3. Help defend neutral territories. --- Not all Clans help all other Clans defend. They generally do a better job of this but there is no gurantee unless it is written in treaty. Many Clans won't even bother unless your land is 150+

4. Use political pressure on rogue guilds who are not neutral friendly --- OK, you put pressure on Neutral guilds to make them Clan friendly.


You are wanting things that wouldn't even be guranteed even if you WERE Clan, which you aren't. As Viray brought up before, Whisper's Edge rule #3 should be sufficient to prove we mean you no harm.

[Cemetarygate]

Originally posted by Lady Kali
Read Sumo's letter again. He only wants to know which Omni and clan guilds have a neutral-friendly policy, not "who is friendly with EO and who is not". That's a different thread.

Sumokan made a secondary comment here to which I responded to. If he intended that to be placed elsewhere, then he did a poor job of such as the statement is here and not there.

That aside, I did respond to his "neutral-friendly policy." Perhaps if you were not too engrosed with feeding the secondary argument you would not have missed it.

[___________Lady Kali]

I just want to know who are the true friends of neutrals are, please do not speak as individuals. Only responses from org reps has any bearing or merit.

Funny, seems pretty clear to me that Sumo just wanted an answer to a basic question. ((His suggesting ways an org might choose to show neut-friendliness is not an open invitation for trailing lines of garbage and flames.))

[___________Lady Kali]

Originally posted by Vixentrox


You are wanting things that wouldn't even be guranteed even if you WERE Clan, which you aren't. As Viray brought up before, Whisper's Edge rule #3 should be sufficient to prove we mean you no harm.

Vix, maybe you misunderstand a bit. He was offering up general suggestions off the top of his that could be applied by various guilds to *any* neutral guild to show goodwill. They weren't demands at all.

[_______________Viray]

I wonder why you didn't fill out that clan application sooner, Viray. How unhappy you must have been, being the clanner in neutral's clothing for so long. No wonder you still dont get it; even having seen the war crimes clan comitted you still live in a fog.

The Clans didn't commit war crimes, Black Dawn Syndicate, Lion's Den, and those Orgs. that attacked you actively started a war against EO when they attacked EO's towers. The Clans didn't do anything, but people affiliated with the Clans did. Until you learn the difference you are simply picking on a bigger enemy than you can ever hope to stand up too.

As for selecting the Clans as my choice in the Omni-Tek/Clan conflict... well I know there are more people amongst the Clans that would rather see freedom and remove opression than the handful of bad apples that started the whole EO Conflict... So yes, I made my choice... however I don't forget where I came from. In case you didn't notice I still display the Graduate of Elite Academy on my signature and I will continue to do so, however I do not have any materials or remains from Elite Operations... and I do not wish too.

If you advocate letting people step all over you and turn other other cheek, then it is certainly good that you left EO.

I had no cheeks left to turn when I left EO, I was already bloody. I learned of backstabbing, double talk, and immaturity that ran so high it was unbelievable. Try as I might to leave bigones and not say anything of it, you insult me and leave me no other options for defense... So your implication that it is good I left EO cause I was weak is really laughable... I left cause EO was not any place I would wish on someone.

But I digress... It would be nice if more guild representatives would answer Sumo's question in his original letter. I was also wondering myself which guilds take a neutral-friendly stance.

I aggree I would like to see more Clan and Omni-Tek responses... however I think the "suggestions" leave some chuckles to most people so they ignore this post altogether...

Sorry Tiny, I love your radio show, but I can't disagree with you more on this point. I think I can safely say that once Clan succeeds as a faction to rid Tir of the neutral murdering Sentinels, then we can talk about the NLC mercs.

I am Clan, yet I support the Mercenaries within Newland City, why? Simple, there is no greater motivation for me to remove the Sentinels than it also meaning a free Newland City for all.

Eye for an eye is an acceptable position for anyone to take in my opinion, and the Neutrals have done nothing more than that. So when the Sentinels are gone I look forward to the removal of the Mercs as well. Maybe its good that we can aggree on that much.

Read Sumo's letter again. He only wants to know which Omni and clan guilds have a neutral-friendly policy, not "who is friendly with EO and who is not". That's a different thread.

I think you need to read Sumo's letter again....

Greetings,

Speaking as a neutral all this talk about clan fighting for "freedom"
and omni work "ethic" leaves me perplex. I invite both sides who really cares about neutrals to state what as a org or side is to do to be more neutral friendly. Neutral haters stay off this thread and if you must, please make a separate thread on why you should be not neutral friendly if you want to vent. Some suggestions would be.

1. Invite neutrals to uber loot raids.

2. Use diplomatic means to get back mines originally held by neutrals.

3. Help defend neutral territories.

4. Use political pressure on rogue guilds who are not neutral friendly.

I just want to know who are the true friends of neutrals are, please do not speak as individuals. Only responses from org reps has any bearing or merit.

Sincerely, Sumokan of Elite Operations

There read that and make sure ya hit the BOLD print... those are suggestions not thought... suggestions on a Neutral Friendly Policy/Stance. You could almost term them choices or requirements... as no one else among Neutral people has ever made such "suggestions".

Funny, seems pretty clear to me that Sumo just wanted an answer to a basic question. His suggesting ways an org might choose to show neut-friendliness is not an open invitation for trailing lines of garbage and flames.

I posted the positon taken by Whisper's Edge, as publicly stated on our Grid Site... that was in the very first post I made... it was done to inform of Whisper's Edge policy on Neutrals. I also express what many Neutrals conveyed to me time and again about Neutrals not being a faction, and answered to the power post that was a vein attempt to put pressure on those that you have no right to pressure.

I am also not a Neutral Hater, so I was free to post by Sumokan's own request... cause I did fill the two requirements.

Vix, maybe you misunderstand a bit. He was offering up general suggestions off the top of his that could be applied by various guilds to *any* neutral guild to show goodwill. They weren't demands at all.

How else can you take such suggestions? I mean this is a list of items for showing a Neutral Friendly stance, suggestion that EO must consider fair to Neutrals as a whole.

These are impossible suggestions and really have no merit, and they were thought out suggestions... not thoughts off the top of Sumokan's head, I don't think Sumokan would operate in such a manner.

Neutrals are not a faction, they are a group of people that can't make their minds up on a side to fight for... they are the side lines... the best you can hope for in a Neutral friendly Org. is a "Don't get in the way and you won't get hurt." Policy... you are not a side to make any such suggestions, you are not a group of people to make suggestions. You are Neutrals... you want benefits of a functional Faction and network of people on the same side as you... then pick a side!

[Praecautus]

Originally posted by Lady Kali


Sorry Tiny, I love your radio show, but I can't disagree with you more on this point. I think I can safely say that once Clan succeeds as a faction to rid Tir of the neutral murdering Sentinels, then we can talk about the NLC mercs.

Lady Kali
((thankyou for your words about my show and for introducing me to Theivery Corporation, far more important to me than any AO political games))

The point I am trying to make is this, given the current climate why should a clan go out of its way to help a group that hired mercenaries to kill clan members? I am not going into the whys and the wherefores of the mercenaries being there. But right now there is a group of soldiers, that were hired by a neutral organisation, and who attack members of the clans. A member of this organisation wants to know which groups would be friendly to his org and neutrals in general. I am asking why a clan member should be friendly now. It seems crazy to help someone out who shoots them directly or by proxy.
The majority of clans people probably dont know exactly why the mercs are in NLC but they know they are there and that they were hired by neutrals. This has created a very large barrier between the clans and the neutrals. If you want to see increased friendliness from the clans then perhaps something needs to be done about those mercs. ((although its fairly obvious any attempts to remove the mercs or the sentinels by players will probably be as succesful as a chocolate tea/coffee pot. which makes a solution difficult :/ publically disown them perhaps? <shrug> ))

In response to the original quesiton though. As it stands I will help out those who I respect and have shown me respect in return ((although being a member of BORPAC dont expect DrT to show up to many mine defences though)). simple really.

[___________Lady Kali]

Originally posted by Viray


The Clans didn't commit war crimes, Black Dawn Syndicate, Lion's Den, and those Orgs. that attacked you actively started a war against EO when they attacked EO's towers.

I should have been more specific, this I do concede, it was "certain clan groups". Which still doesn't change my disgust, and nor the blindess you exhibit.

Originally posted by Viray


The Clans didn't do anything, but people affiliated with the Clans did. Until you learn the difference you are simply picking on a bigger enemy than you can ever hope to stand up too.

Some clans stood by without doing a thing. Some didn't care, some participated, some made it worse. Overal in my opinion clan failed as a faction to stay united in their goals and act like the faction they claim to be. Those guilds who assisted the ones who started the conflict are just as guilty in my eyes. As for being the underdog, that doesn't scare me, nor EO. Tried and true.

Originally posted by Viray

I had no cheeks left to turn when I left EO, I was already bloody. I learned of backstabbing....I left cause EO was not any place I would wish on someone.

If you preach turning the other cheek as the diplomatic approach for EO to take (the impression from your last post), then you certainly didn't belong in EO because your beliefs would be too uncompatible. That was my point. If you chose to take that as a personal insult, so be it. As for your problems in EO, all I can say is that not everyone gets along and personal disputes do happen in every guild. But quite frankly your experience in EO is not the norm, otherwise EO would have dissolved long ago.

I wonder why it is you didn't join clans earlier. Really Viray, with everything I've read so far you must have been a Clanner on the inside itching to get out.

((this is not personal Viray, so don't take it as such. Just looks like a 180 out of the blue.))

Originally posted by Viray

I aggree I would like to see more Clan and Omni-Tek responses... however I think the "suggestions" leave some chuckles to most people so they ignore this post altogether...

What's so laughable? Guilds that are friendly to each other tend to do a lot of the things on that list every day. Proposing them as suggestions for neut-friendly guilds to encourage friendship is not a bad idea, as those methods are already in practice between other guilds.

Originally posted by Viray
There read that and make sure ya hit the BOLD print... those are suggestions not thought... suggestions on a Neutral Friendly Policy/Stance. You could almost term them choices or requirements... as no one else among Neutral people has ever made such "suggestions".

You contradict yourself. And, so what if other neuts haven't suggested this before, this wasn't as prevalent before ICC deregulated mining. Call it new territory if you will, so what?

Originally posted by Viray I also express what many Neutrals conveyed to me time and again about Neutrals not being a faction, and answered to the power post that was a vein attempt to put pressure on those that you have no right to pressure.

You are on a far tangent. If you're saying neutrals (faction or not is irrelevant) have no right to hold anyone accountable for crimes done against them, I certainy hope you see the irony of this view when compared to Clan's ideals (and Omni for that matter) as a faction.

Originally posted by Viray
How else can you take such suggestions? I mean this is a list of items for showing a Neutral Friendly stance.......you want benefits of a functional Faction and network of people on the same side as you... then pick a side!

I think you need to realize that some people say what they mean, and when you try desperately to read more into the words Sumo wrote than is actually there, the more foolish you look.

[___________Lady Kali]

Originally posted by Dr Tiny


Lady Kali
((thankyou for your words about my show and for introducing me to Theivery Corporation, far more important to me than any AO political games))

((YW Dr.Tiny! Always a pleasure to corrupt new people to some good music It's contagious!))

Originally posted by Dr Tiny


The point I am trying to make is this, given the current climate why should a clan go out of its way to help a group that hired mercenaries to kill clan members?

Yes I see your point, but Sumo was not asking for clans to help EO in his letter. From what I understand he was only trying to find out which Omni and Clan guilds have neutral friendly policies, and how to suggest ways to make guestures of friendship between guilds, and offered up a few suggestions. He was not asking that all of the clan guilds walk up to EO, offer then flowers and hugs or forge friendships specifically with us. From what I read it looks like he was speaking in general.

Originally posted by Dr Tiny

The majority of clans people probably dont know exactly why the mercs are in NLC but they know they are there and that they were hired by neutrals. This has created a very large barrier between the clans and the neutrals. If you want to see increased friendliness from the clans then perhaps something needs to be done about those mercs.

Likewise, many neutrals don't understand why Silvertone and his lackeys murder neutrals on sight and in cold blood, let alone the threats Fisk has made on the entire neutral community. All they know is that Clan (as a whole) has failed to remove them from their capital, and yes it is Clan's responsibility. Due to this failure, the NLC merc guards were hired for self-defense. What you have is cause and effect. Removing the effect does nothing to remedy the original problem. The NLC mercs would not be in place if it weren't for Silverstone.

Originally posted by Dr Tiny

((although its fairly obvious any attempts to remove the mercs or the sentinels by players will probably be as succesful as a chocolate tea/coffee pot. which makes a solution difficult :/ publically disown them perhaps? <shrug> ))

(( I know ****es up RP though, doesn't it ))

[Fixerben]

$hit your all a bunch of whiners. Get over it.

[assassimon]

So, EO want clanners to be friendly towards them and help them, but at same time you have members that post:

Dont ask too much of those clanners, I dont think the application form requires reading skills.

/J

Taken from your own forum.

Maybe you should clear your own aggression within org before you ask us to accept you as anything else than targets.

[Jereziah]

Originally posted by Azzazzimon
So, EO want clanners to be friendly towards them and help them, but at same time you have members that post:
...

You prove the statement I made, since Sumo asked which guilds were neutral friendly, not EO friendly.

Time and time again, Clan guilds (and one or two omni) have proven that their "neutral friendly" policy is subject to mood and todays weather. Like when EO was out in TLR trying to recapture the base lost there (which had been EO since deregulation of mining), sure enough every clanner in Tir was there... including the so very neutral friendly Whispers Edge.

As for what I posted on EO forums, thats my personal opinion that I have every right to, and matches all my experiences on planet thus far. No Clan has attempted to show me differently.

As for EO's role in this conflict, you all can whine to your hearts content. You all may think we dont have any power to do anything about your bullying, but we're not some weak minded little boy, we're NEUTRALS.. If you even knew half of what it takes to be a neutral, you'd know that EO will be a thorn in your side until the sun over your head goes out.

/J

[Sumokan]

Greetings

To Ladkali: I appreciate you defeneding me Lady since you know my intentions but, please do not post anymore since it was never to be intended as a flame post and only more bad postings can come out of it.

Most people I think are misreading my intentions. I did not place demands or want to make anyone feel guilty. One of the stipulations of pulling the NL mercs out of New Land was "for neutral clan relations to normalize". With the passage of time I thought now would be a good time for a detante and maybe parley. I see that maybe it was too early and maybe if perhaps if the letter came form somebody else from EO it would not be viewed with su****ion.

I thank anyone who took the time to answer my query and will ask the moderator to please close this thread.

Sincerely, Sumokan of Elite Operations

[___________Lady Kali]

Originally posted by Sumokan
Greetings

To Ladkali: I appreciate you defeneding me Lady since you know my intentions but, please do not post anymore since it was never to be intended as a flame post and only more bad postings can come out of it.

As you wish, advisor Sumokan. This is my last post in this thread.

[Saberharth]

*Saberharth brings out the firehose

locked