Discuss: 13.8 Token changes

[Ashuras]

Falcon, take note of the mission terminals and how far they send u for missions.

As omni, u can go to neutral cities and get missions from their terminals. Clan can do the same too. As u level up, u'll need to go further and further away to get mission that send u back to omni territory. eg. U can try going to MORT, etc. U can even find mission terminals in places like SAV, Avalon, etc. Most people just don't make use of them or don't even know they exist.

At level 1 to 50, I can easily get a mission from any Omni city that sends me to another omni city with save terminals nearby.

At level 100+, I can use the grid to go to newlands or borealis to get missions in 20k, or broken shores (city of home) with save terminals just outside the the mission entrace (or a short run away).

U'll just need to take note of the coordinates of such places.

It's not hard, people just need to break out of their routine of doing the same thing over and over again and try new stuff, explore new place and OBSERVE how the system works.

[Gizzed]

One other thought.

In the military you either go up or you get out. You may get payed more the longer you stay in, but you must get promoted to stay in for longer stretches.

In game, the promotion system is indeed the mission board. The gaining of levels is just the gaining of experience. In the military at least, the longer you are in, the easier it is to get promoted. Is it fair for those who have all the qualifications at an earlier stage in their career? Maybe, maybe not, but the longer you're in the more you know the system and how things work, and the easier it is, provided you have the prerequisits, to get that next promotion.

The system the way it is now, is like the dead end job that you work and work to get anywhere, but with time in service to your corporation, the inflation gets you in the end and achieving that goal of 1000 tokens without busting gets painfully difficult.

I don't know about anyone else, but I've had to spend some REAL long hours getting those sixty tokens, at the expense of being social and going out with groups hunting, or just having time to be friendly with friends. I don't think the point of playing an online game is to purely solo missions for the entire life of the game, which is what you would have to do to get 1000 tokens with the current token reward system set up.

It only makes sense to increase, at least a little, the token reward for doing missions, which in turn gets you that promotion.

An elite corporal, is still only a corporal.

[_____________Alexion]

Originally posted by bac
I got my 250 board last night (I'm L77) and I was quite pleased with it, as far as I'm concerned getting more tokens for the effort would be very nice!

also I'm a tad confused with one of the posters here, he's slagging FC about this new change yet the other day (on vnboards) he (I assume it was him due to the same name spelling) was bragging he has a L7 toon with a 6 slot belt and a QL93 weapon! egads! something is horribly wrong here! so it looks as though he's all for exploiting as long as noone else does it.

now if this fellow is indeed a different person well so sorry for the misunderstanding.

You used to be able to do things like this. Traders have a line of nanos that give massive comlit buffs. Their supposedly for getting better prices from the booths, but everyone uses them to overequip computer equipment. Their now self-only buffs, but at one point they weren't. This person probably had a high lvl trader come by and hit him w/ trading mogul. I think thats nearly a 300pt buff which gets you most of the way into a 6k belt.

With that he probably has 150-200 ncu to work with. If you got that much ncu overequipping 86 lvls on certain weapons is quite easy.

Yet another reason why I support the over-equipping nerf.

[Myga]

Please do not see this as us "devaluating" your past accomplishments.

How is this not devaluating past accomplishments. I have soloed almost all the way to 146 and have 994 tokens today, in 2 months 90% of all 100+ players will have 1000board while I put in 50+ days played before I got mine? If I had teamed instead in all that time I would be lvl 180+ by now, tokens was the ONLY advantage you had by soloing.

Least you can do is make a 2000board and double the amount of tokens ppl have today.

Ah well maybe I should get a 1000board for my soldier twink as well then after this patch...

[___________Zeroshift]

Originally posted by Ashuras
I have 460+ token now at level 115.

Was aiming for 1k tokens by level 200.

I leveled up from level 1 to 50 entirely in mission and gathered 250 tokens by then.

I reached 400 tokens by level 100.

This change is a slap in the face.

I should have power leveled outdoors instead of spending all my time doing missions.

If this goes in... u will see every tom, dick and harry walking around with 1k token board....

If u are worried about token farming, then restrict the number of tokens a player can upload to his board based on his tittle level. Set the limit to be the next tittle board that he can work for.

eg. at level 15, u can have at most 60 tokens, at level 30 (err.. if that the next tittle level?) at most 120 and so on. At level 100, 1000 tokens.

Exactly... Getting tokens takes time and dedication. This new change is indeed a slap in the face to our hard work.

[___________Zeroshift]

Originally posted by RedSonja
What we need here is a complete explination of how this "new" system works, or is it all simply random?

The challenges in AO are slowly going they way of UO.
Currently at Level 94 I have 391 tokens.
I have only terminated THREE times sincle level 1 and that was because my character had become stuck and I couldn't wait to be released.

What Funcom needs to do is stop the "power gamers" and the like who constantly farm tokens at low levels, force them to follow the same route as everyone else to get tokens.

Giving the ability for everyone to quite easily get the 1000 token board is not the way to solve this problem, again this seems to be taking a leaf out of UO's books, always look for the easy fix rather than taking your time over a much better thought out one.

There are not that many token farmers and if they want to live a sad life of terminating after every mission so that they have 1000 tokens by Level 10 then let them get on with it - not that many people could stick that out and those that do, well, sad.
However if somebody wants to be sad and do this then it should be a boring, annoying theing for them to have to do - this change can only help them.

If you want to bring in such rules than maybe you need to remove the chance of getting tokens in the first place, at the moment any 50% mission that ahs 80-100% of mobs wiped out will almost definately give you a token, maybe the chances of actually getting the tokens should be reduced.

Why nerf token farming? Its a perfectly legit tactic.

Do you have ANY clue how incredibly long and boring the route of a token farmer is???

I know this guy that has farmed about 530 tokens. It has taken him about 2.5 MONTHS. He is a powergamer too, playing everyday for about 4-8 hours.

Yes, it takes patience of steel and LOTS of time to get 1000 tokens even as a token farmer.

Hell, in 2.5 months someone could be well past level 150...

These token farmers are legitimately giving up their levels for tokens, it a huge sacrifice.

[___________Zeroshift]

Originally posted by Coldstrike
Great, I love this idea. At level 6 I can get 12 tokens per hour, at 120+ it's more like 1 token per 4 hours. (Taking into account that you only get one out of every 6 missions, all the waiting involved in teams, the time it takes to roll a mission in home etc.)

Now why should someone who took advantage of the system (I'm not calling it an exploit) and /terminated every 3 missions for a couple of weeks be better off than someone who played the game the way it was meant to be played?

The way I see it this change just levels the playing field and gives people a chance to get tokens at about the same rate regardless of their level.

I got more tokens than most at my level, but I don't consider this a "devaluation" of my effort. I just think of it as me having a head start on everyone else when this new system comes into the game.

More like 4-5 tokens an hour. Maybe 6 if you get lucky. And you terminate after every two missions.

That is also assuming you can sit there repeating the same mission all day at a constant pace... most will get tired after an hour and start getting 3 tokens an hour, or just give up all together.

[___________Zeroshift]

Originally posted by MSag


How is this not devaluating past accomplishments. I have soloed almost all the way to 146 and have 994 tokens today, in 2 months 90% of all 100+ players will have 1000board while I put in 50+ days played before I got mine? If I had teamed instead in all that time I would be lvl 180+ by now, tokens was the ONLY advantage you had by soloing.

Least you can do is make a 2000board and double the amount of tokens ppl have today.

Ah well maybe I should get a 1000board for my soldier twink as well then after this patch...

Congrats on your legit 1000 token board! See, it is quite possible... You just have to strike a balance between missions and powerleveling.

The people this patch really caters to are the twinking powerlevelers that don't need to do missions.

[_____________Spetnov]

Zero , you really should stay away from this discussion .
You are a level 8 that exploited to get overequipped and is now farming tokens and /terminating . Do I need to give links ?

[_________madmardigan]

"I hardly know anyone that has 1000 token board legit, they all bought their token boards or their tokens. But as for the players that i know who "legitimately" got their tokens, i haven't seen one person get more that 500 from doing pure missions. I have a MA friend who is level 145 and he has 450 tokens. He "only" does missions. He now says its almost impossible to get 10 tokens in 2 week, let alone 1 month."

CUB your friend must be doing something wrong.

I think this is a bad idea. I have a lvl 110 MA with ~ 407 tokens (all legit). I have been using the game mechanics to its fullest the last week or so and have gotten over 80 tokens doing cave missions in the agean just so I could get the 400 board (and its not much better than the 250 but i thought it worth the extra effort).

Now if the new method of calculating tokens comes into effect I could do the same thing after 13.8 and do the same number of missions and have possibly 160-240 (assuming 1 token is now worth 2 or 3).

As u can see I could then get a 1000 board (legit) within about 3 weeks. All I would need to do then is power lvl all the way to 200. Hey presto jobs a good un bring on the next mmorpg.

Why does FC always drop its pants to the element who want everything gift wrapped and handed to them on a plate.

Elroy "Urakhai" Bichrest
5th Dan
Advisor to the Red Tigers of Rubi-ka

All missioned out but prepared to get the 1000 board after 13.8 just to prove how easy it will be.

[__________BrutalThug]

Originally posted by Falcon


I doubt very much if you've been hit by an Izzy's Last Word for 4-8k worth of damage (by the way these are usually cast within 5secs unlike the PC version that takes 20secs.

I also doubt you get to fight mobs with 100,000 hp's (and no that isn't an exagaration, gotta love those Atrox Enforcer NPC's)

I also doubt your Mobs even when hitting for min damage are doing 200-300 points and crit you for 700.

dont doubt ive done all that and more.

So you think that because the mobs now can fight back better, and even kill you sometimes its different from a lvl83 mission ?

hp are just numbers, same as damage...
"hey its weird i raise in lvl but the mobs seem to hit for more"
geee wiz report it, it must be a bug.

And yes i also hate Izzy in missions...

just i dont see any difference in missions but the difficulty and i think thats supposed to go up.. i started at lvl1.. then lvl2 and it was harder... i think thats a pattern

<edit>
ohh and i also assume that you most certainly are doing missions your own level... cause higher lvl missions than your own would be to hard to fight.. because of the increasing difficulty.
Since if the mission lvl is higher than your lvl it hardly can be surprising that the difficulty also is.. only a halfbrain would think that at lvl145 a lvl190+ mission should be easy and wouldnt give you any challenge.
</edit>

[___________Zeroshift]

Originally posted by Spetnov
Zero , you really should stay away from this discussion .
You are a level 8 that exploited to get overequipped and is now farming tokens and /terminating . Do I need to give links ?

You need to think harder about what the word "exploit" means.

Overequiping and token farming and both valid tactics practiced by many.

Bring on the links fanboy.

[TaintStain]

I actually expect FC to put in a title5 and even title6 board, its easy to do, will make it fair, or almost fair, to the ppl who has a lot of them now, earned "the hard" way. Actually ive always thougth, ( I have 31 tokens on my lvl 137 soldier), that the 1k board took title6. So now I wonder why there aint one for title4+?

If I begin token collecting now, I will have my 1k board at the same time as one who allready has it will have his 2k board, makes the "devalueating" less severe, you will still have the edge

Now, as the 1k token board is kinda good <---understatement
One would have to think what a 2k board should add?

Suggestions ppl, we do not want severe unbalancing here? As I have no experience at all with the boards, you who do need to answer that one.

Your friend
Fury

[_____________Spetnov]

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?...801&replies=11

Zeroshift
Posts: 49
Registered: Feb 02
Date Posted: 2/17 5:54am Subject: RE: Comp Lit bug
Level 7:

6 slot belt
Around 200 NCU
QL 200 run time compiler (+400 to nano int)
QL 105 low light scope.
QL 50 implants.
QL 93 stigma rifle.

BOW DOWN TO MY OWNZOR TWINKAGE!




200 ncu at level 7 by using a bug = exploiting
all your overequipping is a result of it .

[___________Zeroshift]

AH HAHAHA.... Could you be any more dense?

I guess you don't have the tact for SARCASM. I was poking fun at the ub3r l337 twink3rs that we see so often in PvP.

[___________Zeroshift]

Originally posted by FuryFerret
I actually expect FC to put in a title5 and even title6 board, its easy to do, will make it fair, or almost fair, to the ppl who has a lot of them now, earned "the hard" way. Actually ive always thougth, ( I have 31 tokens on my lvl 137 soldier), that the 1k board took title6. So now I wonder why there aint one for title4+?

If I begin token collecting now, I will have my 1k board at the same time as one who allready has it will have his 2k board, makes the "devalueating" less severe, you will still have the edge

Now, as the 1k token board is kinda good <---understatement
One would have to think what a 2k board should add?

Suggestions ppl, we do not want severe unbalancing here? As I have no experience at all with the boards, you who do need to answer that one.

Your friend
Fury

worst....idea...EVER...

If the current token scheme isn't diluting the achievements of the 1000 token board, THIS idea IS.

Another point: The token boards were suppose to just be a nice and desirable boost, but nothing that would be "required" or make you overpowered.

I suspect +700 health is almost nothing around level 160-200. Run speed, comp lit, concealment, and nano programming boosts are also a nice bonus... but they won't make you overpowered compared to to another player, they will just make things more convienent.

Given that the 2000 or 5000 token boards some propose would require signifigant increases over the 1000 tokens board to make them worthwhile, they WOULD be overpowered and just cannot be done.

[____________Meligant]

Originally posted by RedSonja
Oh, addition:

I keep seeing so many posts on this thread:

"Without the changes it would take me xxx hours to get to the next token board"
or
"I have the xxx token board, I'll never see the xxx token board, great change"

The answer to that - Then don't do missions, don't attempt to get the higher level board.
You made your choice, you choose between levelling up by fighting mobs in teams out in the open or in dungeons or you had the choice to do missions.
You choose levelling over tokens and now you want an easy way to get tokens too.

Lets look at the people in favour of this change:

1. Power Levellers - As said above, you decided to level as fast as possible, so why should you have an easy route to tokens?
2. People who don't get to play much - I'm sorry you don't get time to play AO that much, but, in all these games time equals reward and that, however cruel it may sound, is the bottom line.
Good old UO again ruined that by allowing characters to become GM in skills within 2 weeks - the end of UO!
3. Lazy people who feel the game owes them everything - Effort equals reward, as above.
4. Power Gamers who must have the best - Then go into the missions as they currently stand with your Level 100 character, dressed in his QL200 armour and using his QL200 gun that you managed to squeeze into with all those loevely buff's and get the missions done, don't become one of the lazy ones.

My answer to all of your points is that this fix "fixes" the one problem the token system had. No Rate. The rate of getting tokens doesn't change as the "difficulty" (aka the size of the mission) grows. So with this change the total time to get the famous 1K token board now is NOT level dependent.

This is how it should have been since the beginning. It was silly that as you leveled getting mission tokens took longer. If this fix was in from day 1 then token farming never would have been thought up.

[________________Caol]

Good idea. The faster you get it on live, the better.

2 minutes to run a lvl6 token, 2 hours to get a lvl100 token.. all can see that this is wrong. 2 hours? well, gimme 10 tokens.

you gave 5 tokens for the static mission. that took me about an hour. I liked that.

this is the way to go.

if you agree, post.. if you don't agree, gimme location and cords, and I'll smack you with my beam.

[____________eleetist]

Originally posted by Zeroshift
10 level 200's is far too much IMO for a game only 6 months old.

It took tim the enchantor 2.5 years playing non stop and getting mass exp from his vassels to reach the level cap. It has yet to be achieved by anyone else.

THAT is how the 1000 token board should be.

I hate to have to point it out, but there are a ton more players that have 1000 token boards than who have reached lvl 200.... so the token board is nothing like that... and considering you can wear it at level 100, then those that have it own you all day long...

I can recall Truwind being well known for buying like 940 tokens... or so the accusations on here said...

So early on a lot of players bought 1000 token boards.. I also heard that there was once a bug that allowed you to make a reusable token that worked similarly to the reusable nano crystals... so that being said... 1000 tokens doesn't mean glory

Also... a level 200 mission shouldn't carry the same weight in accomplishments as a level 1 mission.

[Bionitrous]

Not to tough to improve on the 1000 board without being game imbalancing.

Clan Merits - Ultimate Sacrifice

Includes all the previous board enhancements with the following modifications.

- Req Title Level 5

- Add 200 Adventuring
- Add 50 Tutoring
- Add 8 Str
- Add 8 Sta
- Add 8 Int
- Add 8 Sense
- Add 8 Psych
- Add 8 Agi
+5 to all Nano Skills

Default: ChatBoxText "Side tokens collected: %d." on wearer
Default: CastNano "ClanAura" on wearer

Additional 300 Nano and HP over 1000 token board increases.

That's a nice improvement without going overboard. You get to wear any of the new backpacks. You have an easier time with tradeskills thanks to the turoring. Your abilities get a 2 level boost and a minor nano-skill improvement.

It's just enough to be worth going after for those who are really into the token thing without being so overpowering that those without feel it's unfair.

Plus a neat nano cast on you when you right click it. This could be something as simple as a really cool partical effect like the Adventurer damage shields that would signify what you've achieved.

Remember that getting tokens will now be probably at least 3 times easier overall than it is now. Even a 2000 board should be easier to earn legitemately in 13.8 than a 1000 board now. Those who earned 1000 tokens legitemately should relish the opportunity to distance themselves from those who bought their boards. There is no way to tell right now who had patience and perseverance from those who had ebay credits.

With token trading and duping (hopefully) gone the first person to right-click their 2000 token board and be covered in the "Aura of Sufferage" can be respected in that it can be assured that at least 1000 of those tokens were rightfully earned.