Discuss: 13.8 PvP changes (updated Tuesday 19th)

[_______________Tylor]

Originally posted by Cz

• Neutrals will now have PvP titles.
• The reward for PvP has been changed. You will now be able to loot all items your opponent has gained since last saving, and you will receive a trophy if the person loses more then 10% of the experience needed to gain a level.

Neutrals should in my opinion either be not attackable (the alternative I like the least), or they should
be able to attack both sides in the conflict (and maybe even other neutrals). As it is now its stupid. A
neutral can be killed, but cant get revenge on the attacker like Clan and Omni (other than get the
same person to attack you first, and that is a BAD idea).

Making the neutrals able to attack would also mean new initiative to role-playing between neutrals
and Omni and Clans, since the neutral side would be a good place to get some extra soldier to ones
cause when the need is there. I mean it wouldn't be the first time in history that neutrals would hire out
to whoever is the highest bidder at the moment.

Also giving Neutrals PvP titles seems strange to me if we cant attack others.

One last thing. Dont like the loot part, I mean its like asking for more grievers. There are enough grievers in the game as it is. If it gets any worse I will seriously think about quiting this game. The part about a trophy sound good tough.

[____________Yehezkel]

Ok, when you kill mobs, you get experience based on how much risk you take. Hard mobs=lots of experience. Easy mobs=negligable experience.

When you kill other players, you get rewards based on how much risk THEY take...

Can't say I understand the logic there. If anything, the pvp reward should be based on how much unsaved exp the ATTACKER has to lose. If you've just saved, you gain nothing from PvP kills. If you have 500k unsaved exp, you get a decent reward for it.

PvP titles might actually mean something then.

[_______________Cordi]

My opinion on this lose all your gear/xp since last save if pk'd is this....

You need a risk for every reward, we all pretty much agree on that, what are the risks involved in doing a mission in a 25% zone compared to a 100% zone at the moment?

Not a whole lot of difference really, but then again the risk to a higher level player camping the mission zones is minimal, even non existant in some circumstances/areas.

I have nothing against losing all my unsaved xp/items etc to a pk, but the fact that I, as a not real good at pvp engineer, will have to go to pk hangouts in order to do missions, I find unacceptable.

If I dont want to pvp, I shouldn't have to imho. Now I know I could get pk'd outside a mission area now with the current system, but it's unlikely, as there's not much of a reward in it for the pk'er. This new system would make it far more rewarding for pvp fanatics to just camp popular mission areas, increasing my risk significantly, while reducing theirs in the process (safety in numbers).

Sure this could give the other side's pvp'ers an opportunity to go get 'em. All at the non-pvp'ers expense.

Bottom line....all this will accomplish is a move from pvp folks going to pvp zones to kill fellow pvpers, to pvp folks killing people uninterested in pvp, either for an easy kill, or to provoke a group of opposed pvp'ers into camping the same spots as protectors.

Don't know about you folks, but this doesn't sound appealing to me. I'm already on the verge of getting to that level where all missions are in 25% zones, if this change goes ahead as is, I wont be going any further.

Seems sad to limit the high end of the game to only those who like and choose to pvp.


Cordi.

[Peep]

Things have changed for me in Mort. Now that my Trader has passed the 100 mark we very rarely get attacked by the 160+ Omni's anymore. It seems that the level 75's are far more attractive for them to hunt.

Every now and then we still get attacked but sometimes we win. Well we sort of win because if the attacker starts to lose they terminate. I have been told that Omni's are trained to commit suicide rather than be beaten by Clan.

[Turin]

Originally posted by Garzu
Next patch I really hope to see that heals gets 50% just as dmg, or I prefere 100% dmg, but anyway, we need same rules for dmg as for heals.

Dots do 50%, but are not capped at 40% of max health as they should, need a fix.

Can someone ***** about something OTHER than the 50%/100% heal/damage ratios? I SEE IT IN EVERY DAMN MESSAGE BASE JUST ABOUT. Get a life. You nerf healing, and you kill most low lvl docs. You will se them leave the game in favor of other class's. You will all die on your hunting trips. what a great solution. use your brain. If you have one.

[newarival]

Turin sweety??
Think hes talking about PvP heals.........
wouldnt affect hunting trips not xp hunting trips anyways....
and i belive its aimed not only at docs but traders and there heal programs too....not to mention enforcers mongo (and sadly adventurures and MAs)..but it does need to be done if theres a dmg cap there needs to be a heal cap(for PvP).

[newarival]

/me prepares herself for flames........

Nano Crystal (Diplomatic Imunity) ql 40

think you get the idea......oh and

Nano Crystal (Team Diplomatic Imunity) ql 80

or would that turn crats into bearocrats(also make it available for agents)

considered a hostile program(so you cant just cancle it) that lasts say 15min while prog is running nothing can attack you and you can attack nothing also all your nano capabilities shut down for the duration of the formula

Really wanna go to that mission in a 25%/0% zone?
Team with a crat and get there safely...then leave safely
dont worry programmers just make it look like a MK sheild but color it differently(not too hard)


could you make it so for the last 1 min of the programs effect you can be attacked but you cant attack so it wont be used as a pvp exploit


plzplz someone tell me how stupid this is and plz tell me why

<----always willing to learn

[_____________Kuniama]

The solution to the whole terminating things is to not allow terminate to work while your in a PvP combat , or make it a 30sec timer like logging out.

Prolly not going to be my most popular sugestion tho

[_________________Mor]

Originally posted by newarival


considered a hostile program(so you cant just cancle it) that lasts say 15min while prog is running nothing can attack you and you can attack nothing also all your nano capabilities shut down for the duration of the formula

Really wanna go to that mission in a 25%/0% zone?
Team with a crat and get there safely...then leave safely
dont worry programmers just make it look like a MK sheild but color it differently(not too hard)

If you want to go into a war zone, players have the option to kill you there. That's the *danger* of these zones. They are *not* carebear zones, they are war zones. Crats going there to mock the PvPers (you know it would happen) would be gay.

Tell you what, if you want this option I'll agree with it if we can have a nano to kill players in non-pvp zones (anywhere we want) for 15 mins. This would be... you guessed it ---> FAIR TO BOTH SIDES.

Otherwise stay out of the war zone.

[________________Crin]

Originally posted by Bootsy

If anything, the pvp reward should be based on how much unsaved exp the ATTACKER has to lose. If you've just saved, you gain nothing from PvP kills. If you have 500k unsaved exp, you get a decent reward for it.

Really like that idea.

I'd still like to add a command that lets you unsave experience even to the point of having negative experience for a level. If you didn't have that, then people could only PvP part of the time. It would suck if you had just saved then some of you buddies invite you to go PvPing with them.

[______Mr. John Piper]

Oh boy. I can't wait.

Corpse-runs, looting, and grief killing. My 3 favorite things in gaming. If only they would make a game that had no point except to make sure that no one else playing it enjoyed themselves.


What they really need to do is implement a rule where a player that is x number of levels above another player cannot attack him unless he is attacked first. Just use the existing "target is outside of attack range" code for the distance, but add a check to it that compares the two levels, and if the check fails, the target never 'comes into range'.

OR

Simply ban people. ARKs and GMs need to get out there without being seen and watch people do it, and ban them instantly. Immediate deletion of your account. Or, all right, to be fair, a suspension first, then you're on probation for a month. Then if you do it again while on probation, deletion. You have to sign up again.

Let's see those annoying pre-teens go tell their parents they need to use their credit card again because they got kicked off the game for being a jerk.

[_________Kalashnakof]

I believe PvP will and should be a essential part of this game. It could be made fun and rewarding. A halfbaked solution such as this one will accomplish nothing but cause untold grief since xp is one of the major objects of this game. I think that FC should not touch any issue unless they are willing to fully commit to it and complete it in a way which makes people enjoy it.

My thoughts are that since killing a mob will give you xp killing another person should as well. This should also be scaled in that if you attack someone too low you get nothing including no kills going towards your title. So rather then looting a person people can get xp from fighting people at their own strength rather then fighting mindless mobs. Also strenght should not be measured by level but rather attack rating and AC and level. While this wont be perfect it will be a more accururate measure then just level.

Now this can be implented without too many chances for exploits. When zoning the countdown timer will only start once your character moves. This is to prevent getting taken out while you still see a black screen. The timer can also be increased to 20 or 30 sec.

A example of how this would work is as you come out of a mission you see a ganker standing next to the entrance. You can get into your yalma without the timer starting and head off.

Also if a high level kills a player out of their range the player will not lose xp.

Now to encourage PvP for experience as a alternative to hunting or missions you could place small 75% zones with saves that you could not enter while in a fight in all the political zones. Now if you kill someone within your range (as determined by ar ac lvl) then you get a according large amount of xp. Also on Rubi-ka there should be rules of war jus like here. So you could not initiate a attack against someone who is already injured below 50% life or so.

So say you are itching to level. So instead of heading to yet another mission or hunt, you could head to 2ho and fight other players for a much larger amount of xp then you would ever get hunting. The drawback is you could very easily lose it since players are much more intelegent then mobs. One could argue that since your are protected at below 50% life your could save after every kill. But you can do this during hunting too. The deterent to this would be the long travel time to the save. Also you could make saves in political zones take 20s which would discourage running to the save after every kill.

For those that need rational explanations for things in video games the reason to not be able to kill lower strength and injured players would be honor or rules of war.

Please tell me any thought-out comments and responses.

[______Mr. John Piper]

NOOOO NO NOO NOON OOO!

This one would take exploiting to a whole new level, man.

KrisKo, I know you wouldn't, and I wouldn't, but what would stop people from getting a friend of theirs, and continue to kill one another until they level. Finding some nice, out of the way place, and have them keep dying and running back to and take turns leveling.

NO RISK.

[__________Banjosammy]

Simple is good. Why complicate things that can be done effectively easy?

Suggestion:

Killed by another player:
Your opponent can loot 4 random items from inventory, and has a 20% chance of looting a random WORN item.

Killed by a monster:
Monster can "loot" 2 random items from inventory, and has a 10% chance of looting a random WORN item.

In both cases, there should be a 5% chance that one of your implants is destroyed.

[Ratty]

I just gotta cast my vote, from a newbie perspective, I've only been playing a few weeks, I have no intention of going pvp, if I get attacked i'll /terminate. If that right ever gets taken from me, and suddenly I can be looted by some ganker, I'll have to find a new game.
I dont find pvp fun at all, I had enough of that in Counterstrike, go play that if you want to see what side of people pvp brings out. It's like the matrix, it has rules that can be bent and broken, people are smarter than computers, if you make it so people are attacking each other, people will cheat like mad, if you make rules, people will keep just within them. Keep it peaceful, keep it players vs monsters, please, its still great fun. Just my 2 cents.

[_____________Luviana]

This game is about Anarchy.... re the name. I like the fear I will have that someone will gank me and take my things. I like the fact that if I kill someone I can get their things. It puts even more pressure to make sure you insure yourself before you go running around.

Note: I have only done PVP once and that was in the arena, just between friends, for a change of pace. I am not a PVP player. I also don't fear it because I knew what I was getting into when I bought this game. It is about a war between Omni and Clan with the poor neutrals stuck in the middle.

Besides, the entire world is not covered in PVP areas like Darktide is in AC. You don't have to go to those areas, you don't even have to worry that you will end up in one of those areas accidently and get killed immediately any more. You have fair warning and a timer will pop up telling you you will be in danger soon. Just go back the way you came if you don't want to get in a fight.

[Spluggorth]

Just feeking great! now i guess they might as well Delete any mission areas inside 25%. who in their right mind would spend 2-3 hours doing a RISKY and very hard high ql mission just to be buttfeked once exiting and loose EVERYTHING you gained??
before you loose every single feking xp you gained, that was bad enought, but noooooo now you have to loose every single feeking item as well? not to mention if its a item mission you dont get a reward for the items is lost, you cant return a looted item now can ya? THINK FC !!
I would recommend you to Fire that devs butt on the spot and actually replace him/her rather IT with a REAL roleplayer that knows the mainstream OCG for what they really want! not wasting time so any other 12 year old lamer with no life can just sitt outside and gank player after player, earning items and titles and god knows what!!

Yes you allready think twice about going into 25% since loosing a whole missions xp is PRETTY FEEKING BAD! but loosing the items as well.! a ****load of ppl that would delete the whole game and move on, Great marketing idea FC!

good more risk, eum.. ok this thing will only add to camping, ganking and the rest

i say what i have allways said, make both sides of the PvP *beep wrong* Playerkilling sides happy!
Put in a feeking checkbox in the startup screen, pvp player or not and make the ENTIRE world 25%, There is YOUR added risk that you love so much!
me i just want a good gaming with friends and be able to Choose my own lvl of madness


FC = braindead??

[_____________Nalissa]

As i see it, the main problems with getting people to enjoy PvP are:

1: When hunting, you are after xp. Hunting zones are calculated for risk vs reward by all players. Since the chance of being ganked increases this risk, some formally often hunted areas are now abandoned. IF the reward offered in these areas was increased as well, you might start to see players there again. For example, Killing vets in BS is just as good as killing borgs in Mort - although ofset by the risk of going LD in that lag-infested hell. Now with 25% gas in mort, BS looks more attractive. Increase the rewards of hunting in mort (either xp or greater item drops) and you will see it populated again.

2: Since a team has a maximum of 6 members, larger sweeping strategies are pointless for reward purposes. Thus a single 170+ ganker is going to benefit, while a team of 6 lvl 75 players is useless for title-reaping purposes. This means that lower level players are going to hunt in safe zones, while only extremely high level players will have a desire to pvp. IF there was a possibility of 50-something lvl 75's gaining a *group* reward from killing a team of 6 gankers, you might see lower level players banding together in PvP zones.

3: there are only 2 truly long term goals in the game. Highest levels, and highest titles. Lvl 200 is still a sacrosanct goal and thus you see people hunting for xp at all times. Titles on the other hand are truly easiest to get at 2 different points: Lowest level (when twinked) and highest level (160-200). Thus once past level 30, most players have no desire for pvp until they are extremely high level. The bottom line is that these 2 level ranges give a PvPer the best chance of attaining a solid title, since the odds are in his/her favor. THIS might change if teams could actually garner titles. Since only one player gets 'the kill', why would a group of lower lvl players band together to take out a single higher lvl player? We all know that if I had a lvl 75 player and decided to get a decent title, I would have to kill mainly lvl 150+ characters to get it, and what exactly are my odds of doing that, if not next to nil? Instead, i would take the path of most other middle-level-but-still-hungry-for-an-ego-trip players, and use my income at lvl 75-100 to build myself an ultra-powerful lvl 15 player and go clean up on the newbs.

Thus, my suggestions:

A: give out better rewards in some form for hunting in PvP zones.
B: Allow teams to share in titles on a 'damage caused' base or something along those lines. In this way, a team of 6 lvl 75's killing a lvl 150 apprentice (unlikely in any case) might share the reward as if making a normal freshman kill EACH. If the goal is to create a 'team-pvp' environment, then make it possible to garner titles as a team.
C: destroy over-equipping which is making the title sytem useless. I think FunCom has already begun addressing this point.



It's a simple matter of incentive. Once players stop recieving mixed messages in terms of express intent vs real reward they will fall into line nicely.

[Spluggorth]

One other thing i wanted to adress
FUNCOM READ THIS!

you are going back onto your own proclamations..

you earlier stated that the machine bug from treatment made users able to wear stuff they normaly could not, and therefore would not be fair to the new gamers comming into the game now that it has been change, and also all the talk about looking up the same cheaters... i have no problems with the removal of that bug( found out about it to late anyway), BUT!!!!!
isnt this the same issue with say.. MORT being 25% ??

now all the players finally reaching lvl 75+ that needs new hunting grounds cant go where all the now 150+ went when they were lvl 75+ for hunting.without the risk of being PKd.
Before there was no risk for being PKd but now its a HUGE risk
with the xp and item looting added, so please tell me how this differs from the Unfairness of previous stated issue??hmm no ?

i Want an Explanation!!

Also it seems you ( FUNCOM ) is only interessted in the PvP players around. You have no serious intent towards the Serious online gaming community, you just increase the PvP.
added: xp gain= camping
titles = camping
itemloss= camping
timeout = winner = most RAM

Are you to affraid to acutally make a poll??
Anarchy is all about:
roleplaying = 10%
PvP = 90%

all your troubles and griefs would be over with a simple checkbox!
remove all gas ( or keep city ) and add a pvp option box in startoptions! yes no ..how hard can it be??

[______________Dareus]

My problem is not the PvP or the looting but this change (the 10% change) does nothing but encourage grief tactics.

Forget about grid camping, now we will end up with mission camping and group kills.

Group each with 10% level at stake, PvP (I mean griefer) 0%.

1/2 the group dies to the monster they were trying to kill because griefer took out 1/2 the group.

Total loss, players a collective 60% of a level. Griefer 0% and some rewards for griefing.

No trophys for griefing, and again... WHAT KIND OF CRACK ARE YOU SMOKING?