"Neutrals will now have PvP titles."
- Why?
- I have many other question about this, please click here
"There is now a chance of getting a special token reward for killing sided monsters."
- Can neutrals have a chance of getting a special token reward for killing unsided monsters.?
- What's a token?
"Your faction will not appear as monster in the character creation any more."
- This is just wrong, but, that's my neutral point of view...
RoboKa & RoboKaKa
Solitus Neutral Engineer & Pet
You know it is really interesting that all the pro-change people on this board have not commented even once about all the posts refering to the fact that ALL the risk without reward falls on the hunted while all the reward without risk is awarded to the griefer.
Come on, all over this board its all about you like the challenge and you want there to be risks. I say great then propose a change to the rules so that the attacker has something to lose.
You attack me in 25% and your exp/loot is at risk regaurdless of last save. If I am hunting or doing a mission then I would not be attacking you for fear of losing my exp/loot so you would have to attack me. If you choose to do so fine, but if I mop the floor with you where is my reward? You knew you were going into battle and therefore without a doubt saved before you entered the PVP zone, so what do I get for defending myself against you?? You kill me you get my loot and I lose exp, I kill you for attacking me and get natta. Its not right, you want risk then put a risk in game for the attacker. Or as others have suggested, reward me in some other way for taking the chance of getting griefed.
You can bet that if this goes live your 25% zones will be void of hunters or mission runners. Then what, all the 25% zones will be nothing but big MMD's. That not what I want to see happen and I would think that you don't either. But rather than comment on someting that you have no response to, you will ignore my post like you have all the others to this effect.
My 2 cents
Trigger, I am so with your line of thinking.
I am not certain there is a way to make the risk/reward able to be balanced out if exp/loot is on the line. Perhaps there is another way.
*still pondering this out.*
Originally posted by Cz
- The PVP grace period now works as was originally intended. This means no more grid camping!
- GOOD...
GOOD...Originally posted by Cz
- Neutrals will now have PvP titles.
Originally posted by Cz
- The reward for PvP has been changed. You will now be able to loot all items your opponent has gained since last saving, and you will receive a trophy if the person loses more then 10% of the experience needed to gain a level.
The trophy thing is crap. I just don't see the point. I would rather you give us tokens as a reward... something that's really useful..
GOOD...Originally posted by Cz
[*]PvP Title will now update without the need for zoning, so you will see your new PvP title instantly.
But if you really want to make PvP better, then add *team* PvP titles so the whole team can get rewarded. This helps so that people look to their side for help in battles and that adds fun to the game.
Also make the titles mean something. Like if an omni kills lots of rebels and gets a pvp title, then omni-tek should offer him cheaper prices in the shops or something. Nothing major though, but meaning the key.
Last edited by Mor; Feb 19th, 2002 at 21:39:33.
I hereby retire from this spiraling-out-of-control thread. I seldom quote an article in full just to praise it, but Sigfried here has said everything that needed to be said.Originally posted by Sigfried
This new PVP reward system is misguided at best.
Anyone who is intentionaly PVPing saves before they go into PVP zones. They already do this, no one wants to lose XP. The only people that are going to give up rewards are those that are in the PVP area for some other reason and are doing missions and the like, trying to get back home.
So the reward is for killing people that don't want to participate and have something to lose. Which means people will be running around trying to hunt down those who least want to fight. (Not fun at all for the huntee)
What will happen is that all the people that could possibly yeild a reward to the PVPers will simply not go into PVP areas. That will be boring for everyone.
I suggest you simply reward tokens for killing X number of enemies. It would solve the problem of tokens being so hard to get a later levels and would make a lot of sense in game, and it wouldn't target any single group.
Think Funcom! When you make a change list the possible outcoms of the change and then think, What would i do if I were playing and this happened.
Scorus
Of course you are immune, you just fly 40m above your targets and wait for all your friends to show up. If you zone in you use your 15 seconds to get that altitude, if you are scouting big areas you always stay above that height. If you can't root planes you are effectivly IMMUNE to combat.Originally posted by Meligant
Not being able to root a Yamaha doesn't make you immune. No one said you shouldn't be able to shot/hit someone IN a Yamaha just not root em. I don't see how that is "exploitable". Watching someone fly up to you and jump out of their yamaha and root you at 150 Meters in the air is kind of silly as well.
I personally like doing missions out in risky areas. I like to. I don't have to, and you don't have to either right up to level 200.Originally posted by Sigfried
This new PVP reward system is misguided at best.
Anyone who is intentionaly PVPing saves before they go into PVP zones. They already do this, no one wants to lose XP. The only people that are going to give up rewards are those that are in the PVP area for some other reason and are doing missions and the like, trying to get back home.
So the reward is for killing people that don't want to participate and have something to lose. Which means people will be running around trying to hunt down those who least want to fight. (Not fun at all for the huntee)
What will happen is that all the people that could possibly yeild a reward to the PVPers will simply not go into PVP areas. That will be boring for everyone.
I suggest you simply reward tokens for killing X number of enemies. It would solve the problem of tokens being so hard to get a later levels and would make a lot of sense in game, and it wouldn't target any single group.
Think Funcom! When you make a change list the possible outcoms of the change and then think, What would i do if I were playing and this happened.
I agree the attacker should have as much to lose as the attacked. The gear to me isn't an issue, the concept of pinkies is what I like. First regardless of wether or not the deceased loses experience the winner should get a pinkie, that way attacker or attacked can earn the same "reward". Maybe bigger rewards could go to people killing titled players, you know, other digits, but trophies.
As to the risk of the loser, I proposed that whoever dies loses all exp down to the beginning of his level regardless of saving. This should be a pleasing suggestion to the 80-100ish camp hunters. 50% of a level to you is under 1 million exp. 50% of a level to a 150 player is 5 million or so exp. It's quite a bigger risk for the high level gankers.
Tokens are a bad idea. Any PVP reward cannot effect your stats or there will be serious balance issues introduced into the game. Maybe pinkies could be cashed in for bounties or discounts.
The incentive you want to give players to PVP is a role playing one.
As to looting bodies, most people will put important items in bags that have been scanned. You may lose some treatment kits or some corpse loot if you don't take the time to bag it, but unless you are very negligent you won't lose anything of signifigance.
Last edited by Nichola_Six; Feb 19th, 2002 at 22:06:35.
I smell griefers only grief when they just lvled... Sorry. Nice try, but doens't really solve anything.Originally posted by ULTRA1
As to the risk of the loser, I proposed that whoever dies loses all exp down to the beginning of his level regardless of saving. This should be a pleasing suggestion to the 80-100ish camp hunters. 50% of a level to you is under 1 million exp. 50% of a level to a 150 player is 5 million or so exp. It's quite a bigger risk for the high level gankers.
I like the bounty idea. Altho it too can be exploited. It would add to RP and maybe high lvl content. Since it might add incentive for high lvl players to go on protection detail. Since they might get XP and money for killing those that gank low lvl players at certain areas.Tokens are a bad idea. Any PVP reward cannot effect your stats or there will be serious balance issues introduced into the game. Maybe pinkies could be cashed in for bounties or discounts.
Couldn't agree more, but hard to do. Hardcore "Doomers" don't give a lick about RP, and from my experience(that's right my experience, not fact) most(not all) hardcore PvPers don't give a lick about RP either.The incentive you want to give players to PVP is a role playing one.
That defeats the purpose of the change so then why bother adding it, QAing it, testing it?????? Why not spend the man hours on actually balancing PvP? If it works the way you say it does then FC should absolutely not bother putting it in. Since it won't matter, most people will then just do as I do(read below).As to looting bodies, most people will put important items in bags that have been scanned. You may lose some treatment kits or some corpse loot if you don't take the time to bag it, but unless you are very negligent you won't lose anything of signifigance.
Honestly who do not scan before they go on a mission? I always scan when I get to the zone the mission is in(or before depending on where the scanners are). I always have 6-7 bags in my inventory which are always scanned and I put all the loot in them. The only loot(and non scanned items) which do not go in the bags is stuff I didn't have room for.
Last edited by Atrocious; Feb 19th, 2002 at 22:21:53.
Atrocious - taking ugly to the next level.
Atrocious - Atrox Enforcer - Member of Ancarim Iron Legion
Aniana - Solitus Engineer(Uber gimp) - Applicant of Ancarim Iron Legion
Plasmatiq - Solitus Soldier
Plus countless other alts I play with once in a while.
Dam Ultra you must be bored at work like I am. lol
I agree with your last post btw. Give us calss balance so we can pvp then give us a good story that makes us all want to pvp.
Takuan
Future Sword Saint of Rubi-Ka
Martial Artist
Storm
I havent seen a roleplaying PK so far. What I have seen are peeps with OOC names "roleplaying a sniper" (sitting next to the MMD grid aimshotting whatever they could tab to), freshmen killing the same NPC over and over cause he gives uber xp. Outside the PvP area these peeps are strangely not roleplaying anymore. When its about twinking, leveling fast and overequipping etc. roleplaying is just uncool I suppose. Or have you seen much peeps shouting for a faction specific wrangler?Still, why don't you or any of you anti-pvp players, the ones that assume if you have ever pvped in this game you are for some reason not a role player, choose a side like clan or omni if you don't want to participate in the conflict that IS the STORY.
All the PKs I have talked to used roleplaying the "war" as a lame justification for attacking me (Im neutral) or just wanted some info on weapons or buffs in the typical d00d way (no greeting, demanding something in d00d speak and not answering anymore when they got the answer or realized I dont have the uber buff they need). The tells they send after attacking you are RL slurs too.
Val (its not what you say is cool that counts, its what its really like out there that counts)
Xandro, neutral bureaucract
LOL Tak true true, bout to shut up shop for the day.
Val, you have had some bad PVP experiences. I'm a hardcore PVPer and I don't fit your description.
I don't attack neutrals, unless they are teamed with omni, they you are sympathizers, even then, I wouldn't attack you if you stayed out of the fight.
A lot of people do RP and some do not. Making generalizations, like all PVPers are silly quake players that don't want to role play is just nonsense. I could say the same thing about you and a bunch of people standing in a mob of 50 around 6 borgs. You have no RP reason to be there, you are camping easy exp, and that is that. Game mechanics are always the antithesis of RP.
Even though I prolly won't be much affected by that (we just about always have someone in our group who can grid us out) - I still don't like those new loot rules in PvP.
Why? First of all I think it will encourage griefing, like waiting in mission zones for ppl who have to zone out and such.
That - combined with the fact that the game is still kind of unstable and crashes often happen when zoning - so you'd be totally defenseless and/or unable to flee within the grace period.
No good...
Not that anyone will be reading this, but....Originally posted by stugots
As far as the new system exploiting gankers, please define a "ganker"
It is clearly marked across your screen when you are entering a PvP zone. There is even a 15 second count down timer ticking past your face. At what point would a intelligent human being think him, and his earned XP are safe?
It *is* clearly marked when you enter a 25% zone. But just beyond those letters is someone 2x your level waiting for you.
It seems to me that the simplest solution is to limit pvp to character of +/- 5 levels. I don't have a problem getting attacked by someone who is my level--in fact, I might even enjoy it. What I mind (and will not pay for) is getting attacked by a player who so obviously overpowers me that not only are they in no danger whatsoever, but that I have no chance whatsoever. Where is the "fun" in that, except for the sadistic fun of causing problems for others?
And, no, I have not been mission camped...but I have been grid camped (at lvl 40, when I was killed by a lvl 90 and 80 together). One other time, at lvl 45 I was chased by a lvl 160 MA. And at yet another, I backpedeled out of Meet when I saw the 25% warning appear over what appeared to be an empty village, only to spot a lvl 140 character sneaking around the corner.
This is supposed to be fun? Some children might think so, but I will not waste time and money in this game if this is the sort of behavior FC wants to promote.
Anyway, not that anyone will read this....
Mr Pendent
a lvl 53 fixer waiting for SWG....
Some do read posts, MrPendent. You are right on the money. APvP attack should definitely be level checked. IMO a higher level attacking a lower level should be locked to doing minimum damage. There should be no gain - or loot- what so ever from a gray player.
"Life is too short to drink bad ale."
If all those experiences are true you were being attacked by players using exploits. An exploit does exist in this game that will allow a level 200 player to attack a level 1 player if the 200 player is teamed with a level 5 or lower player and that level 5 or lower player does a certian something. That is an EXPLOIT, and if that was done to you you should report the names of the people, the one in your range who initiated combat, and the high level who attacked you and request that they be banned or suspended from the game.Originally posted by MrPendent
And, no, I have not been mission camped...but I have been grid camped (at lvl 40, when I was killed by a lvl 90 and 80 together). One other time, at lvl 45 I was chased by a lvl 160 MA. And at yet another, I backpedeled out of Meet when I saw the 25% warning appear over what appeared to be an empty village, only to spot a lvl 140 character sneaking around the corner.
This is supposed to be fun? Some children might think so, but I will not waste time and money in this game if this is the sort of behavior FC wants to promote.
Anyway, not that anyone will read this....
Mr Pendent
a lvl 53 fixer waiting for SWG....
Cheaters like that ruin PVP for everyone.
After level 75 though you are fair game to anyone 75+ so you need to be careful about what you do and how you do it. This makes the game more interesting and suspensful.
If fighting was contained to +/-5 levels the whole game, when capturing territory or any team based events that had PVP as an element happened no one could ever be a victor, since most people in that conflict couldn't even contend with eachother.
OMFG!!! Are you kidding? With the way FC codes their patches no one would be bringing items home - I don't know how many times since 13.6 that I've crashed in a mission, only to log back in and all the rooms are respawned, and I have no map to find my way to the door, and I'm still at 20% hp from just beating the snot out of the orange mob that I just killed, who's respawn is beating the snot out of me as I log back on...Originally posted by ULTRA1
Also, I wouldn't mind that when you died from a mob, unsaved items were not returned to the res terminal. Since they are not insured there is no reason for them to be there. Though maybe they could stay in a corpse pile that you could loot only.
Or how about the good-old get stuck behind a wall and the only way out is to terminate or wait 3 hours for an ARK to answer your petition? Losing items looted when you die is a BAD BAD BAD idea, and you should be b*tch-slapped for even suggesting it Ultra! Shame on you!
/me b!tch slaps Ultra1
There you go VP Loxt
/me salutes
Breaku
M.O.T.H.E.R
Originally posted by ULTRA1
LOL Tak true true, bout to shut up shop for the day.
Val, you have had some bad PVP experiences. I'm a hardcore PVPer and I don't fit your description.
That makes you rather unique, and of course everyone will base their opinions of PvP on their experiences. Most people I know don't like the forced PvP aspect of the game.
Not sure if it was you or someone else who used the following as a reason for killing lowbie Omnis in Aces camp: "My father lives in the town and he's been res-shocked so many times that he's daffy. Please stay away.", etc etc. Or something like that.
A lot of people do RP and some do not. Making generalizations, like all PVPers are silly quake players that don't want to role play is just nonsense. I could say the same thing about you and a bunch of people standing in a mob of 50 around 6 borgs. You have no RP reason to be there, you are camping easy exp, and that is that. Game mechanics are always the antithesis of RP.
Is that any better than my reason for camping Mort Factory?: "My family was slaughtered by the Borg attack on Tir, and I'm here for revenge and to drive the plague of the Cyborgs from this land."????
They are all perfectly good RP reasons.
The bottom line for me is the following: Are you a griefer attacking people who are clearly out just to lvl and might not want to PvP, don't know how to PvP, have tooo much to loose to PvP at the moment or simple have no way in hell of defending themselves? If you are truely out to PvP purely for RP reasons, you won't care that the people leave and save to come back and fight, because then the reward for PvP is the RP itself, and nothing else.
Personally I would like there to be no xp loss, item loss nor titles in PvP. I think then you would truely get PvP for RP reasons. Since then the only reason to fight someone was to drive the story in a certain direction. Then I also think people wouldn't mind PvP or for that matter making every zone outside the cities into 25%.
That is altho my personal reasons, and others(and everyone) have their right to disagree.
Atrocious - taking ugly to the next level.
Atrocious - Atrox Enforcer - Member of Ancarim Iron Legion
Aniana - Solitus Engineer(Uber gimp) - Applicant of Ancarim Iron Legion
Plasmatiq - Solitus Soldier
Plus countless other alts I play with once in a while.
I know a d00d when I see one. In PvP there is a strong concentration of them in game and on these boards IMO. Possible there are some roleplaying PKs but I have yet to meet them.A lot of people do RP and some do not. Making generalizations, like all PVPers are silly quake players that don't want to role play is just nonsense. I could say the same thing about you and a bunch of people standing in a mob of 50 around 6 borgs. You have no RP reason to be there, you are camping easy exp, and that is that. Game mechanics are always the antithesis of RP.
Of course camping respawning mobs for xp is not very realistic. Heck the whole concept of leveling isnt realistic. But ppl camping as you call it "easy" xp are not griefing and then claiming to be in context of the storyline or some such nonsense.
And correct me if I'm wrong but did'nt you say you leveled at the borgs in Mort yourself?
How do badass PvP players who despise "xp camping and easy xp" level, I wonder?
Where do these highlevel griefers come from? Did they do thousands of missions to 2H0 without ever safing inbetween till they got to 120+?
Val
PS: btw a mob of 50 players standing around 6 borgs would prolly crash an AO playfield
Xandro, neutral bureaucract
LOL I've just done 100s of missions. I've camp hunted too, it is boring, and it is easy experience. There is little to no risk at all if you are careful.
I don't understand why you are so bitter, but regardless of your reasons, you don't have to go to any PVP area to level or do missions at any level in the game.
Someone suggested a bit back that people wouldn't do missions or hunt in PVP areas. I could care less if they hunt in them or not, but it might be a good idea to doubble the cash reward for missions in 25% gas zones. Cash is not lootable we all know.
My level 55 nt does a lot of SWB missions in 25% gas, but the clon**** ones which are faster and easier environment pay 25% more on average, 18k for SWB and 22K for clon****, so often I'll take the clon**** if the reward is better.
Raising the cash reward for 25% gas mission zones to me is a great idea.
I don't see you, val, chiding in on my suggestions to extend risk to the attacker as well as the attacked, you just want to be obtuse. You hate PVP, you should just avoid it at all costs. It's easy enough to do.
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