n00bs and pvp. (idea :) )

[_______V.T. Stampede]

Okay, a real noob comes along into a 25% zone- a couple shots and he's dead. He may try it again, then never steps into 25% zone again- and he spreads the word of how unfair pvp is.

My idea is to make it so there is not death penalty for loosing (as in no rezz time). You go right back out there and go at it again. People would die more willingly- and people would gain more kills-- leading to more pvp titles.

I'm not sure if it's a great idae. but i know some people who would pvp more if there was no rezz time. We could have FFa's just go in there and bang bang.--- dead-- heal up in a couple of seconds and bang bang. I'd say it'd be more enjoyable.

Of course it might cause problems.. In no way have i thought this whole thing through..

But there has to be something else to get people into pvp. I just see too many people not even going 100 feet from a 25% zone.

The only solution that is being thought up of is with a big nerf stick...

[__________NicholaSix]

That won't fix it. I meet a lot of new players, and I always encourage them to pvp, but usually their first exp in PVP is arena at somewhere between level 10 and 20. New players have no grasp of how extensive twinking is in those levels, yesterday a friend of mine went to try it for the first time. She was shocked that she never hit for more than 10 and she was used to hitting for 100+, she wondered why she was always hit for 90+.

I explained it to her, how this player got into their gear, and so on. She was very dissapointed with the experience however and said she would never pvp again. She said she had been really excited about participating in AO PVP too, since I guess she came from EQ where unless you have been around for years you can't participate, at least according to her (I have no exp in any other mmprpgs). I told her to wait till 50, she said she doubted she would PVP again. I hope she will try again around 50.

The problem is 3 fold

1. Punk attitudes at the arena
2. Overequiping
3. Massive outside buffs

You can't do much about the attitudes or buffs, but IMO this is the biggest reason why there needs to be an over-equiping nurf (and do I ever have some twinks). Our PVP pool will dry up and we'll come under more and more critisim from the community unless some not totally uber character has even a slim chance.

Christ, with my 50 ma I once took down an untwinked 60 agent, 64 NT and 60 soldier in one fight, and another time took down a 50 soldier 54 doc and then a totally twinked 64 MA. That's crazy!

Also people need to work on their attitudes. MMD and 2ho is war, no need for chit-chat, just get down to business.

Anyway a lot less people PVP today than did 4 months ago, and to me that is a bad sign, there should be more poeple PVPing now not less. We need more work done on the pvp system itself soon to further balance classes, and rules that are fair to all classes.

Anyway, we need to present a nice picture of PVP to the community if we are going to keep enjoying this part of the game with a lot of other players.

[__________SuupaSayen]

Yesterday a lvl 12 trader (who later revealed to me his ql 106 SA Home defender) hit my lvl 19 crat for 260 per hit (the 40% max) and thank goodness to the high lvl who took pity and healed me .

It just makes me sick that people can do that, and even if they can that they DO. I can't possibly see any fun in that. The best fight I've had in months was vs some enforcer that I lost to and at the end he had 10 life while I was dead, it was what more fights should be like.

[Deskclerk]

you know what makes me sick


whinning little babies that want quake or duke nuke em

all the time spent leveling and ignoring equiping is why you cant hit for more then 10 points and somone hits u for 200

i have equiped my self fully took HOURS AND HOURS out of leveling time

1) learning what items do
2) camping mission terms for hours for items needed
3) camping shoping channels for items needed
4) finding out what buffs raise what
5) building 3 and 4 different implants sets to equip one other implant or gun (called stair steping)
6) increasing evades (ip that could have went into offensive)
7) studying the book seeeing who has what attcks figuring what would be a good tactic to defend or attack

if you want to be good you have to do these things if you do not want to spend time doing these things and would rather spend time in a dorky bar or bull $hiting with pals or leveling then u DESERVE TO DIE QUICKLY

now i do disagree wth a weapon being able to be used once buffs u used to get on wear off, i feek if u can keep the buffs up then you should be able to wear and use that equipment, but as soon as you dont have the stats it should go to a red icon like the plane does whne u go in doors

caster classes have to do this to use thier nukes and heals why should it be fair that u can use the same gun once u get it on but the buff wears off?

but the point here is DO NOT ENTER PVP WITH CRAPPY EQUIPMENT AND EXPECT TO COMPETE thois is a mmorpg not QUAKE OR DUKE NUKEM

if you want a good game that does not involve levels but gives a good selection of char and weapon wityh out having to run all over dungeons looking for agun taht u loose when u die TRY DELTA FORCE LAND WARRIOR

[__________NicholaSix]

besh, when you get to 75 that is the game. You are 100% on. I'm glad you agree with the weapon over-equiping issue too.

I'm talking about getting noobs involved in pvp. Their first exp in PVP is vs that level 13 trader with a 106 cannon, LMA a 5 slot belt with behemoth, omni-med health and mochs.

It's a joke. And the noobs that got the game 3 weeks ago, and say to themselves "hey let's go try out PVP" never come back after that experience.

The 75+ game is fine. The sub-50 game worries me a lot, since it's cutting off our supply of fresh meat and breading retards like Tetra and Scorus.

[Arinia]

Rofl, Ultra. Funny post.

Simple solution is to only fight fellow twinks. Beating up on true n00bs in the arena at L9 is really low.

If you see someone that you know is a n00b, don't try to egg them on, and if they ask you for a duel, ask em if they really want to .

Of course this will never happen because of all the 3733t d00ds , but it's an idea.

[____________Meligant]

Originally posted by besheba
you know what makes me sick


whinning little babies that want quake or duke nuke em

(deleted to save space)...

if you want to be good you have to do these things if you do not want to spend time doing these things and would rather spend time in a dorky bar or bull $hiting with pals or leveling then u DESERVE TO DIE QUICKLY

now i do disagree wth a weapon being able to be used once buffs u used to get on wear off, i feek if u can keep the buffs up then you should be able to wear and use that equipment, but as soon as you dont have the stats it should go to a red icon like the plane does whne u go in doors

caster classes have to do this to use thier nukes and heals why should it be fair that u can use the same gun once u get it on but the buff wears off?

but the point here is DO NOT ENTER PVP WITH CRAPPY EQUIPMENT AND EXPECT TO COMPETE thois is a mmorpg not QUAKE OR DUKE NUKEM

if you want a good game that does not involve levels but gives a good selection of char and weapon wityh out having to run all over dungeons looking for agun taht u loose when u die TRY DELTA FORCE LAND WARRIOR

1. The delta between the person who invested a week of his life in study to uber max implant and equip his character shouldn't be SO great that someone using "self-buffable" equipment dies in 3-5 shots. That just reduces the number of players willing to get involved. Do you understand that point? I'm not asking you to agree to it. Just to understand that.

2. "DO NOT ENTER PVP WITH CRAPPY EQUIPMENT AND EXPECT TO COMPETE". If "crappy" means I didn't invest 3 million in "single use" stepping implants along with begging for enforcer str/stm+ doc IC + doc treatment + agent buffs along with some Treatment exploitation post 13.6 along with a Trader Wrangle and a weapon I couldn't even mission for then you can count out about 75% of the player base right now. I have done all the above (except the treatment exploit) for my characters but I usually slack on the armor a bit (since i'm not convinced that having more than 25 times your level is ACs really makes much of a difference).

If you want "Joe Noobie" to grow up and want to PvP you need to let him have a more level PvP experience up to level 30-50. Really, who up to that level has the millions of credits to invest in once use implants for treatment, crit scope, maps, armor, etc without using a 1st generation "mistake" character for funding?

Also, if the uber twinked are going to have "complete rain" over the semi-equip, then it is kind of silly. 2-3 fairly well equip players vs a maxed out super-twink of the same level should end with the 2-3 side team in the win column 9 times out of 10. This isn't Quake. 3 vs 1 should mean death at the same level right? Just checking your ego. Many super-twinkers seem to just be protecting their "time investment" and not thinking about increasing the number of those who get involved in the PvP side of the game.

Should twinking be a part of the game? YES! but it shouldn't mean that someone who is uber twinked can take out a whole team of 6 noobs without a scratch without some MAJOR tactics (mostly running away and zoning to heal).

[Laeni]

A pity they couldn't have two kinds of pvp in this game. One kind for those more casual players who don't want to spend hours and hours poring over implant charts and bugging people for wrangles and buffs just so they can attack someone several levels below them and massacre them and the second kind for those quake brats who just have to brag about how uber they are and who don't have much of a life or any conception of fair fight so they spend all their time twinking themselves.

Then the quake brats could knock themselves out trying to kill each other and leave the rest of us alone to play the game the way we want to (ie roleplay--another concept that seems to be alien to the quake brats).

[__________NicholaSix]

So many mean and nasty stereotypes =]

Someone might need a rabies shot =]

[Deskclerk]

Originally posted by Meligant


1. The delta between the person who invested a week of his life in study to uber max implant and equip his character shouldn't be SO great that someone using "self-buffable" equipment dies in 3-5 shots. That just reduces the number of players willing to get involved. Do you understand that point? I'm not asking you to agree to it. Just to understand that.

THIS IS A MMORPG the differnce between me and someone who dose'nt take the time to equip themselves properly will die faster then 5-7 shots and they should. This game is about equipment, this game is about the ability to get uber, this game is about ruling over thoose who dont get uber IT IS THE POINT OF THE GAME, if not go play QUAKE or DELTA FORCE LAND WARRIOR. YOU DONT HAVE TO PVP

Originally posted by Meligant

2. "DO NOT ENTER PVP WITH CRAPPY EQUIPMENT AND EXPECT TO COMPETE". If "crappy" means I didn't invest 3 million in "single use" stepping implants along with begging for enforcer str/stm+ doc IC + doc treatment + agent buffs along with some Treatment exploitation post 13.6 along with a Trader Wrangle and a weapon I couldn't even mission for then you can count out about 75% of the player base right now. I have done all the above (except the treatment exploit) for my characters but I usually slack on the armor a bit (since i'm not convinced that having more than 25 times your level is ACs really makes much of a difference).

who says 75% of the player base is entittled to the UBER SPEACIAL EQUIPMENT? The truth is this game really does not have the same kind of hard to get eleet equipment like EVERCAMP, for the most part all the equipment is equaly available to all. If you choose not to get the equipment or buffs taht is your choice and i will respect that , BUT DO NOT CALL FOR NERFS OR MORE AVAILABILITY FOR ITEMS other wise they have no meaning and the game becomes QUAKE. The idea of this game is to seperate your self from the NORMAL, it is to build the best char you can, DID I HAVE SOME SPECIAL ABILITY wheni started this game? NO. DID I HAVE SOME HIGH LEVEL FEEDING ME EVERYTHING FROM LEVEL 2 UP? NO. I started this game as a newb. THERE IS NOTHING I HAVE THAT U CAN NOT HAVE. Get over it if you wanna feel good when you do all the work to make your self that much better when u play a game u play a mmorpg, if you want all equality then go play QUKE ENGINES.

Originally posted by Meligant

If you want "Joe Noobie" to grow up and want to PvP you need to let him have a more level PvP experience up to level 30-50. Really, who up to that level has the millions of credits to invest in once use implants for treatment, crit scope, maps, armor, etc without using a 1st generation "mistake" character for funding?

Where do you think you have a right to have a level playing feild, between twinked and no twinked players? I have never played another char past level 9 a spy i have 2 other ;level2's who are also spies, my one and only real char is BESHEBA, i have made big mistakes in her on early IP but as i said i was a newb, truth is to me that is part of the game i have recovered nicely. I didnt get a yalm till level 80, so do not tell me that lame excuse, it is part of the game and why we play if somone wants to twink out in any leagal fashoin that is why they play a MMORPG and not quake.

QUOTE]Originally posted by Meligant


Also, if the uber twinked are going to have "complete rain" over the semi-equip, then it is kind of silly. 2-3 fairly well equip players vs a maxed out super-twink of the same level should end with the 2-3 side team in the win column 9 times out of 10. This isn't Quake. 3 vs 1 should mean death at the same level right? Just checking your ego. Many super-twinkers seem to just be protecting their "time investment" and not thinking about increasing the number of those who get involved in the PvP side of the game.[/QUOTE]

if somone is twinked SO BE IT its the nature of the game

Originally posted by Meligant


Should twinking be a part of the game? YES! but it shouldn't mean that someone who is uber twinked can take out a whole team of 6 noobs without a scratch without some MAJOR tactics (mostly running away and zoning to heal).

NOW the real root of the problem is exploits, i saw 2 level 13's with nano cloak and nano hoods, i bet they had armor on under that too.

if you want a better low level pvp experience you have to get rid of the exploits

[__________NicholaSix]

OMG THE HATE

Laenieople who twink and overequip and brag and act like punks = Qake players

Besheba:People who don't take the time to build their characters and have the patience and basic math skills to figure it out = Quake players

GOD DAMN IT I LIKE QUAKE!

AND I WANT GIBS TOO IN THIS GAME PLEASE!

[Laeni]

Originally posted by besheba


THIS IS A MMORPG the differnce between me and someone who dose'nt take the time to equip themselves properly will die faster then 5-7 shots and they should. This game is about equipment, this game is about the ability to get uber, this game is about ruling over thoose who dont get uber IT IS THE POINT OF THE GAME, if not go play QUAKE or DELTA FORCE LAND WARRIOR. YOU DONT HAVE TO PVP

Do you even know what RPG at the end of MMORPG stands for? It stands for ROLEPLAYING GAME. Roleplaying as in playing a role.

Look if you don't want a level field in pvp fine but where do you get off saying that the point of this game is to get uber, and to rule over those who don't get uber?

You only "rule" in a pvp zone. Outside of a pvp zone you are basically nobody. Especially since a lot of you gankers couldn't roleplay your way out of a cardboard box.

So you just run around all you want in your little pvp zones. Those of us who feel that pvp in this game is ruined so badly that it can't be fixed will just continue to ignore your shennanigans.

[Deskclerk]

ill have plenty of time to say "hither to" and "hail"

and "prethie to thou"

when i am 200

[______________Yazule]

too bad old english just dont cut it in the future.

You want to know who the real role players are? The Twinkers

Think about it, who is a computer god currently, the guy running the 92847239874932874 dollar machine that took him a month to put together.

who is the car god today? The guy that got the 9238472934872839 cc engine with the super racing transmission and custom exaust

Look at it, when technology is the "game" then getting the best of the best is where it is at. Spending a lot of time tweeking out your car/computer/boat/plane/gun/whatever defines the best in the world.

And guess what, computer guys got their "speak"

As do gun guys

As do car guys

and it has no Thee or thou in it anywhere! DuDe speak is better RP language than old english in this game!


Cmon, the tinkers are the true Futuristic RPers!

Showing off your gun/armor/implants is just like bragging about your processor/motherboard/OS, or your engine/tires/tranny or your scope/caliber/full auto modifications.

I laugh at anyone who uses Thee and Thou and M'lord or whatever, they should go back to EQ or UO where they actually BELONG.

This is sci fi kids, and technology is IT. I know a guy that would not use implants for "role playing reasons"... Take a look at the amish, you see them in any way superior to others (other than ecological) when they dont use a car, TV, Computer, Planes, or in any way educate themselves about it? It is pure lunacy and that RPer got kicked from the team when he had no damage, poor nano's and nothing to add to our team.

[________________Ming]

*expletive* I LIKE QUAKE!

AND I WANT GIBS TOO IN THIS GAME PLEASE!

ROFL.

Okay, a real noob comes along into a 25% zone- a couple shots and he's dead. He may try it again, then never steps into 25% zone again- and he spreads the word of how unfair pvp is.

My idea is to make it so there is not death penalty for loosing (as in no rezz time). You go right back out there and go at it again. People would die more willingly- and people would gain more kills-- leading to more pvp titles.

I'd say reducing stat loss time by oh say 50% is in order. As ofr no stat loss, they just don't wan't people dragging big mobs to reclaim terms as well as a couple of other conceivable exploits.

you know what makes me sick


whinning little babies that want quake or duke nuke em

all the time spent leveling and ignoring equiping is why you cant hit for more then 10 points and somone hits u for 200....

Yep I get tired of people calling me a cheater, when I simply put the time in.

You only "rule" in a pvp zone. Outside of a pvp zone you are basically nobody. Especially since a lot of you gankers couldn't roleplay your way out of a cardboard box.

So you just run around all you want in your little pvp zones. Those of us who feel that pvp in this game is ruined so badly that it can't be fixed will just continue to ignore your shennanigans.

Hehe, now who's being elitist. Being an MA I don't blame you for avoiding PvP. Don't get me wrong, I respect your stance. I wish there were more motivation for me to roleplay, but I just see no point. For one I hate typing. I'd rather be controlling my character.


heh, and Yazule that bit about the Amish cracked me up. Phear!! The quakers are coming!!! Get redy to gank! I'll stand out there with my newb [RP style] begging for help as bait!! You guys get ready to root and shoot!

[Letah]

If your goal is to get to 200 and THEN roleplay, like you say Besheba, sorry but then I feel sorry for you. You'll reach that quite soon, and when you DO hit 200 you'll be bored to death, that im near-sure of it.

Why not combine things? Take some time to rp, to do something else then twinking and hunting, theres a lot to do. After all, as someone else said, its an mmoRPG game. What you do besheba, is mmog, 2 letters missing there dear. Go play counterstrike or something, you're a tipical person for it. You can buy there and get you're frags and show you're "uber" (god do I hate that word).

If it weren't for your lvl I just checked at AO I would've thought you were some '1337' counterstrike 'dude' who still was 'n00b' at AO. You succeeded in breaking nearly *all* forum ethics by shouting, exessive !'s, leet-talk, beign disrespectful etc etc etc. Must I continue?

Don't tell me you'll RP when you're 200, you wont, you cant. You cant just "be an rp-er" at a point, you must be or you dont. I don't say its wrong to not-RP but dont come here shouting 'that will come when im 200'. If you think speaking in forms of 'thou art a foul thief, thine soul shall be mineth' (not even mentioning that belongs to fantasy-themed rpg's) then you cannot rp at all. RP is WAY more then just speaking fancy, its pure acting: a 100% dedication of being a made-up person, still keeping at the rules of the game (i.e. your no god or anything not-possible in-game). The game and its physics are your set of rules, and your mind is the tool to interact with it. Now I ask you, did you EVER roleplayed? And I don't mean a few sentences, but kept roleplaying that character for hours long without going OOC? I doubt it.

To get back to the topic; Twinks will always exist, nerfs are not the way to stop these people. As you said Besh and some others, removing exploits IS the way to do it, also resetting implants/eqp after a fix. Without exploits the 'newbs' would have more chance to kill that twink. If he can't then he can ask around how to be good like the twink, receive the buffs and try twinking a little as well. A noob may be a noob at the game but she/he can learn and do maths just as fast as an experienced player. IRL people dont go unprepared and 'unequipped' into battle (pvp), they also try to arm and protect themself as good as possible. After all, they don't want to die.

[_____________Ukkonen]

ok...now this is getting silly...

why shouldn't people who go out and get the best armor and weapons kill someone who doesn't have it and quickly?

that's like saying that you shouldn't be able to kill a slow naked native chucking rocks out you even though you spent the money and time getting an armalite and full kevlar body suit...

fact of the matter is, people who are lazy and people who don't have the time to put into the game are not going to excel at certain aspects. there is nothing that you can do about that...

crying nerf won't fix anything...it'll just make it so that all the whiny crybabies are the only ones left in the game...

[______________Yazule]

hehe yeah, and if they do that people will start complaining about the "underequipers" cause they rock too much!

[__________NicholaSix]

Why do all carebears think people who PVP don't role play?

Why do all PVPer think that carebears and terminal camp hunters don't role play?

letah, don't know why you'd mind an over-equiping nurf if you are a REAL ROLE PLAYER. After all Real role players don't sleep with their guns and night. Real role players take their guns off before entering bars and towns. Real role players don't need to live in their armor.

Now what's so bad about a pro-role playing patch that fixes people's need to overequip? =]

Even with the proposed changes you'll still be able to plan your character and be able to max equip.

[_______V.T. Stampede]

okay --- so how do we get the n00bs to pvp?

i just saw a lvl 35 with QL 90ish elite/primus coat in mmd.

Most of the low lvl pvp is going to whoever is twinked out the most, and sometimes to who does the fastest minimum dmg- lol.

PvP is not that bad at lvl 80ish+ (anyone notice that this is the lvl where anyone can attack anyone wihtout lvl restriction?!?! ) but mainly it's because the over equiping stops at QL 200. (except for those QL 214 guns that no one seems to want...) everyone has the ncu to get fully buffed for pvp.


So overequipping is capped at higher lvl's. now what to do at lower lvl's?!?!? and how to get the new ao gamers into pvp? this is an Omni Vs CLan world! (and nueters die if they get in the way )

- and btw i aggree- we need GIBS!! i wanna see them explode at the last shot that kills them. not a silly sounding scream with a little calapse on the ground animation... We are smashing eachother with hammers/beams- shooting ourselfs with high electric voltage/hot plasma and so on.. bring on the GIBS