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Thread: Who are the real thugs?

  1. #61
    Originally posted by Sumokan
    If Boralis was somehow closed to you, would that bring you to the bargaining table? Please answer carefully I await your response.
    Since you are neutral and/or independent to the clan/Omni-Tek conflict there is no need for clan/neutral and/or independent bargaining.

    However, if you were to "somehow" close down Borealis, then I would suspect you could expect the same Sentinel greeting in Aegean, Athen Shire, Longest Road, Mort (Hope), Old Athen, Varmint Woods, Wailing Waste, Wartorn Valley and West Athen.

  2. #62
    Originally posted by Cemetarygate
    However, if you were to "somehow" close down Borealis...
    ((/me places a com to Tarryk...))
    Bliqz, Agent, Omni, Atlantean, "Iron Chef of Rubi-Ka"
    God is a bullet.

    ((The IC only RP forum is back. Bliqz is an Omni Extremist, and his posts IN THAT FORUM reflect that attitude. I can be reached by PM if you feel I have personaly offended you, and I will be happy to change/temper my post. Thank you, and have fun!))

  3. #63
    Originally posted by Sumokan
    Greetings,

    Posted by:Lexusstreak
    haha sumokan, who gives a damn if clanners can't go to newland, you ever smelled the air around that place? it was more an omni tek city than anything else, you know it's true, because all i saw were Omni citizens sitting on the various rooftops consorting with each other...LONG before the sentinels ever showed up, so no no don't blame the clans for the start of this, the neutrals had already made a stand by having so many omni citizens strolling about their city. Tir is a much more prestine place than Newland will ever be, and I for one am glad that people like you will never walk it's streets.

    I think you are using spourous logic, New Land was open to both clan and omni. In fact prior to the ICC whompa system there was more clan then omni. The fact that there was more omni then clan after the new whompa system was installed was not in any part our fault. Clan simply did not want to come there anymore in numbers.

    If you dispised New Land so much, why do you walk the streets of Boralis? If Boralis was somehow closed to you, would that bring you to the bargaining table? Please answer carefully I await your response.

    Sincerely, Sumokan of Elite Operations
    If you're going to criticize her logic (which is understandable), then don't go and shoot yourself in the foot in the process. Letting one nutball Clanner's spew dictate your policies is foolish. Threats won't accomplish a thing.
    The Deacon of Doom
    www.gridstream.org

  4. #64
    Originally posted by Fistofpaper


    Let it mean what I think it means. I welcome a conflict over this. If West Athen were closed off to you, would you feel less high and mighty?


    ¤these are my opinions and not necessarilly those of Unity of the Rose¤
    Huh? What are you babblng about? I was NEUTRAL for the better part of my Rubi-kan life. I just recently became CLAN. So closing off West Athen to me and the REST of THE CLANS would be a bad thing. Escpecially since its CLAN territory.

    What I think Sumokan is insinuating the possibility of bringing on more THUGS to close off Borealis to the CLANS. If that happens, the NEUTRAL affiliation is DEAD. They might as well get their Omni-Tek merit board the moment Borey is closed off.

    Oh, by the way, WHERE WAS I BEING ALL HIGH & MIGHTY??

  5. #65
    Originally posted by Ravegrrl

    I did say however that I am more happy having sentinels guarding Tir than the corporate funded ICC guards.

    When exactly did the ICC do anything specifically to harm the clans? If it were not for the ICC the clans would not even have insurance technology and without that I suspect most of the clanner slamming the ICC on this very thread would be long dead.
    Last edited by Savoy; Apr 3rd, 2003 at 17:17:44.
    Dabblez - Rubi-Ka Universal Robots (RUR)
    We put the Art into Artificial Intelligence!

  6. #66
    Originally posted by Tifanyx


    Huh? What are you babblng about? I was NEUTRAL for the better part of my Rubi-kan life. I just recently became CLAN. So closing off West Athen to me and the REST of THE CLANS would be a bad thing. Escpecially since its CLAN territory.

    What I think Sumokan is insinuating the possibility of bringing on more THUGS to close off Borealis to the CLANS. If that happens, the NEUTRAL affiliation is DEAD. They might as well get their Omni-Tek merit board the moment Borey is closed off.

    Oh, by the way, WHERE WAS I BEING ALL HIGH & MIGHTY??
    I think she was addressing Sumokan with her questions about West Athen, Tifanyx.

    I don't see a reason to escalate things here. This isn't really a discussion of Neutral relations to Clan, it's a discussion of Clan relations among themselves.

    Nothing in this thread has changed my view that the Sentinels would be better serving the Clanners who they purport to represent and who they wish to lead, if they were to stop shooting Neutrals on sight. Leaders are first of all the servants of their people's interests, and it's in the interests of the Clans for the Sentinels to put forward a better image.

    As a second option, the Sentinels could serve the Clans well by leaving Tir to another Clan for defense, and taking the freed-up soldiers who no longer have to guard it to use against Omni-Tek in an aggressive capacity.
    Taren "Jynne" Suitt, Level 216/16 Eternalist
    Knight of Unity of the Rose - Check out our AO Tools!
    The Doctor Guide to: Notum Wars Martial Arts Perks! Nano Controller Units
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    Visit the Roses and check out the shops in our City, NE of ICC at 4500x1500 in Andromeda!

    Iron Law of Exploits: If it can be exploited, it will be exploited. However a rule is exploitable, the exploits become the rule.

  7. #67
    I allready stated why I was unhappy having ICC guards in Tir, can't people start reading my post before they start critising me.

    Originally posted by Ravegrrl
    I saw ICC guards patrolling and policing Tir city, something I wasn't happy about since they are the representatives of the very powers that lets money rule over people, they'd might as well have been Omni Pol guards for all I care, different uniform same politics.
    The ICCs only interest here on Rubi-Ka is the keep the export of Notum steady, the only reason they choose to interfere is because an open scaled war would stop the export for a long the war would last.
    And it is my belief that if it haven't been for the stronger militant clans, Omni Tek could and would've taken over full controll of Rubi-Ka again with ICCs approval.
    And that is why we need clans like Sentinels, for the moment we put our guard down, Omni-Tek won't hesitate to take advantage of it.
    All the ducks are swimming in the water

  8. #68
    Originally posted by Jynne
    I think she was addressing Sumokan with her questions about West Athen, Tifanyx.
    ./me re-reads FistofPaper's post and slaps himself silly.

    I apologize. I mis-read the post and have an itchy trigger finger.

    ((OOC: At work. Read the post wrong. Noticed that I was quoted so I just assumed it was directed toward me.. sorry. ))

  9. #69
    First of all, i don't walk the streets of Borealis, I just happen to pass them up on my way to the smugglers den, good armor in there. If borealis was closed off to clanners, it's no big deal, just have to go around the alternate way through SFH, pfft. wait wait, hold up a minute there, Braedon while we are on the topic of killing neutrals, haven't I been out to EFP with you more than once while we killed the neutrals there? huh? do you remember that? lol don't say you weren't there, cause you were, killing neutrals, period.

    You've all spilled blood at one time or another, so shouting at the sentinels and calling them thugs does not make you high nor mighty. EVERYONE here has spilled some blood somewhere or another without provocation, you are just as guilty as anyone else. Whether it is clanner blood, neutral blood or omni tek blood. Death is death, murder is murder, when you hold yourself up to trial and judgment and accept your own punishment for your crimes, then feel free to bring the sentinels up on charges, don't hold them to a standard you yourselves do not follow. Funny that I see a lot of moderates wearing MK 2 type armours, i wonder where they got the stuff from. *cough* neutral killing *cough*
    Last edited by Lexusstreak; Apr 3rd, 2003 at 18:21:20.
    "Did I tell you that you could speak?....then why are you still talking?."

  10. #70
    Originally posted by Ravegrrl
    I allready stated why I was unhappy having ICC guards in Tir, can't people start reading my post before they start critising me.



    The ICCs only interest here on Rubi-Ka is the keep the export of Notum steady, the only reason they choose to interfere is because an open scaled war would stop the export for a long the war would last.
    And it is my belief that if it haven't been for the stronger militant clans, Omni Tek could and would've taken over full controll of Rubi-Ka again with ICCs approval.
    And that is why we need clans like Sentinels, for the moment we put our guard down, Omni-Tek won't hesitate to take advantage of it.
    I just wanted to know if there was any reason for your mistrust of the ICC other than conjecture, prejudice or simple xenophobia; specific incidents of ICC brutality against clanners or any moment they did not deal fairly with both clan and OT.

    Other than the mining deregulation, which utter madness, but a madness most clanners seem to have embraced, as far as I can see the behaviour of the ICC has been above repproach in what has been a long, complicate and emotive conflict. But hey, if you prefer to trust the Sentinels, who am I to argue?

    Savoy
    Dabblez - Rubi-Ka Universal Robots (RUR)
    We put the Art into Artificial Intelligence!

  11. #71
    Originally posted by Lexusstreak
    First of all, i don't walk the streets of Borealis, I just happen to pass them up on my way to the smugglers den, good armor in there. If borealis was closed off to clanners, it's no big deal, just have to go around the alternate way through SFH, pfft. wait wait, hold up a minute there, Braedon while we are on the topic of killing neutrals, haven't I been out to EFP with you more than once while we killed the neutrals there? huh? do you remember that? lol don't say you weren't there, cause you were, killing neutrals, period.
    What in the name of all that's holy are you talking about?!? I've never had cause to go to SFH that I can think of, and if I did go, I sure as hell didn't go with you. Take your lies elsewhere.

    ((I honestly don't have any idea what you're talking about here, so forgive me if I'm missing something. LOL))
    The Deacon of Doom
    www.gridstream.org

  12. #72
    Lexus, the difference you're failing to mention between other people killing Neutrals in other areas, is that the Sentinels have assumed control of the Clan capitol city and, therefore, have become the de facto representatives of the Clans in the eyes of the Galaxy. Even if this isn't the position they wanted, it is the position they put themselves in by occupying Tir. As some say, "possession is nine-tenths of the law."

    And so in that sense it is neither hypocritical nor contradictory to hold the Sentinels - or any other force that ever guards Tir - to a higher standard at Tir than at other places or other times. The guards and leaders in Tir have a greater responsibility to comport themselves well because of the increased scrutiny on them from the rest of the Galaxy. This is doubly the case because of the way the Sentinels forcibly ejected the ICC.

    If the Sentinels were to treat Neutrals as shoot-on-sight at their bunkers in Mort and their base in Wailing Wastes, that is entirely their choice. But Tir is not the homeland of the Sentinels, nor is it a military installation. It is the capitol city of the Clans, a symbol. There is a difference.
    Taren "Jynne" Suitt, Level 216/16 Eternalist
    Knight of Unity of the Rose - Check out our AO Tools!
    The Doctor Guide to: Notum Wars Martial Arts Perks! Nano Controller Units
    The General Guide to: Auto-Combat General Perks

    Visit the Roses and check out the shops in our City, NE of ICC at 4500x1500 in Andromeda!

    Iron Law of Exploits: If it can be exploited, it will be exploited. However a rule is exploitable, the exploits become the rule.

  13. #73
    My distrust for them is simple:

    ICC wants Rubi-Ka to run as effectively as possible, so that the flow of notum off planet is steady and provides money to their pockets. If it hadn't been for that ICC wouldn't even have bothered to interfere in our lives.

    The Sentinels, albeit their extreme attitude towards Omni-Tek and neutrals, want a free Rubi-Ka, some might argue that Silverstone want to rule for himself and that might or might not be true, however to stand up against Omni-Tek we need any allies we can have and The Sentinels is a strong ally which we would be better of having on our side.
    All the ducks are swimming in the water

  14. #74
    Originally posted by Ravegrrl
    My distrust for them is simple:

    ICC wants Rubi-Ka to run as effectively as possible, so that the flow of notum off planet is steady and provides money to their pockets. If it hadn't been for that ICC wouldn't even have bothered to interfere in our lives.

    The Sentinels, albeit their extreme attitude towards Omni-Tek and neutrals, want a free Rubi-Ka, some might argue that Silverstone want to rule for himself and that might or might not be true, however to stand up against Omni-Tek we need any allies we can have and The Sentinels is a strong ally which we would be better of having on our side.
    Getting neutrals as allies (Ie getting them to defect) is equally valuable. Silverstone basically ruined that.
    -Finalizer Vixentrox-
    Former President and Founder,
    -Whisper's Edge-
    Former Member of the Atlantean CoT Clerical Staff

    Socializer 73% Killer 53% Explorer 53% Achiever 20%

    Kissysuzuki -
    WTB small enough brain and lack of imagination to be able to sit and solo hecklers for 5 days straight.

  15. #75
    Originally posted by Savoy


    I just wanted to know if there was any reason for your mistrust of the ICC other than conjecture, prejudice or simple xenophobia; specific incidents of ICC brutality against clanners or any moment they did not deal fairly with both clan and OT.

    Other than the mining deregulation, which utter madness, but a madness most clanners seem to have embraced, as far as I can see the behaviour of the ICC has been above repproach in what has been a long, complicate and emotive conflict. But hey, if you prefer to trust the Sentinels, who am I to argue?

    Savoy
    Savoy - I think you'll find that many Clanners feel, "Corporations is corporations is corporations." And the ICC is the Intersteller Confederation of Corporations.

    All corporations are motivated by profit. Stated another way, by greed. The Clans have always had to guard against being used by the rival corporations of Omni-Tek as pawns in an attempt to loosen Omni-Tek's notum monopoly, just like the ICC is being used as the pawn of its component corporations to the same end. What other logic could there be behind notum mining deregulation?

    Looking through history the Clans even united, briefly and in a limited fashion, with Omni-Tek to repel troops from the ICC and from other hypercorporations from landing on Rubi-Ka... even though those troops were there to fight Omni-Tek and, ostensibly, advance our cause. This is, of course, because we aren't so stupid as to believe that the other hypercorps or the ICC are interested in freeing Rubi-Ka. They're interested in supplanting Omni-Tek and getting the notum for themselves.

    There is little point in getting rid of Omni-Tek if all we do is replace them with another tyrranical corporate police-state. We have to remove all corporate governance from Rubi-Ka, including the ICC, before we will finally be free of profit-driven tyrrany.
    Taren "Jynne" Suitt, Level 216/16 Eternalist
    Knight of Unity of the Rose - Check out our AO Tools!
    The Doctor Guide to: Notum Wars Martial Arts Perks! Nano Controller Units
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    Visit the Roses and check out the shops in our City, NE of ICC at 4500x1500 in Andromeda!

    Iron Law of Exploits: If it can be exploited, it will be exploited. However a rule is exploitable, the exploits become the rule.

  16. #76
    Originally posted by Jynne
    Savoy - I think you'll find that many Clanners feel, "Corporations is corporations is corporations." And the ICC is the Intersteller Confederation of Corporations
    Didnt stop them from taking up the arms provided by the Sol Banking Corporation.
    Bliqz, Agent, Omni, Atlantean, "Iron Chef of Rubi-Ka"
    God is a bullet.

    ((The IC only RP forum is back. Bliqz is an Omni Extremist, and his posts IN THAT FORUM reflect that attitude. I can be reached by PM if you feel I have personaly offended you, and I will be happy to change/temper my post. Thank you, and have fun!))

  17. #77
    Originally posted by Bliqz
    Didnt stop them from taking up the arms provided by the Sol Banking Corporation.
    Neither did it stop us from cooperating with Omnis and turning SBC's own weapons on their mechanized assault troops when they landed on Rubi-Ka during the first (I think... might have been second) Rubi-Ka Civil War
    Taren "Jynne" Suitt, Level 216/16 Eternalist
    Knight of Unity of the Rose - Check out our AO Tools!
    The Doctor Guide to: Notum Wars Martial Arts Perks! Nano Controller Units
    The General Guide to: Auto-Combat General Perks

    Visit the Roses and check out the shops in our City, NE of ICC at 4500x1500 in Andromeda!

    Iron Law of Exploits: If it can be exploited, it will be exploited. However a rule is exploitable, the exploits become the rule.

  18. #78
    Originally posted by Jynne
    Savoy - I think you'll find that many Clanners feel, "Corporations is corporations is corporations." And the ICC is the Intersteller Confederation of Corporations.

    At the risk of appearing rude, that attitude in my book, falls under the category of prejudice. You may have good reason to dislkike and distrust OT and a number of other corporations. However historically the ICC as a whole has been a friend to the clans; the best friend you have ever had.

    Savoy
    Dabblez - Rubi-Ka Universal Robots (RUR)
    We put the Art into Artificial Intelligence!

  19. #79
    Originally posted by Jynne
    Neither did it stop us from cooperating with Omnis and turning SBC's own weapons on their mechanized assault troops when they landed on Rubi-Ka during the first (I think... might have been second) Rubi-Ka Civil War
    Treating ones principles and ideals as a selective option is not a concept I am familiar with.
    Bliqz, Agent, Omni, Atlantean, "Iron Chef of Rubi-Ka"
    God is a bullet.

    ((The IC only RP forum is back. Bliqz is an Omni Extremist, and his posts IN THAT FORUM reflect that attitude. I can be reached by PM if you feel I have personaly offended you, and I will be happy to change/temper my post. Thank you, and have fun!))

  20. #80
    Originally posted by Savoy


    At the risk of appearing rude, that attitude in my book, falls under the category of prejudice. You may have good reason to dislkike and distrust OT and a number of other corporations. However historically the ICC as a whole has been a friend to the clans; the best friend you have ever had.

    Savoy
    My point - if you read further - was that the ICC is the tool of its component corporations. It's been the friend of the Clans because the interests of most of its major members (excluding Omni-Tek of course) have coincided with the Clans fight for freedom. SBC and TSN want to be able to mine and sell notum. To do that they have to break Omni-Tek's monopoly and exclusive lease on Rubi-Ka. And so for that reason they back the Clans... at least until they have what they want, at which point it's more than likely they - probably through the ICC - will no doubt back-stab the Clans.

    After all... while they want us to free the planet from Omni-Tek, they wouldn't want us to free the planet from them.
    Taren "Jynne" Suitt, Level 216/16 Eternalist
    Knight of Unity of the Rose - Check out our AO Tools!
    The Doctor Guide to: Notum Wars Martial Arts Perks! Nano Controller Units
    The General Guide to: Auto-Combat General Perks

    Visit the Roses and check out the shops in our City, NE of ICC at 4500x1500 in Andromeda!

    Iron Law of Exploits: If it can be exploited, it will be exploited. However a rule is exploitable, the exploits become the rule.

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