PVP damage caps

[__________NicholaSix]

The current 40% cap is very nice, and have no complaints about it, but the 50% off all attacks is a big issue for me.

A. Gives De-buff classes too much time to cast all the de-buffs they want.

B. Gives classes that can heal an unfair advantage against classes that rely on nano pool to deal damge. The cost bases for exchanging HP is twice as high for damage casters than damage healers.

C. Devistates low consistent damage classes like MAs and Advs in PVP.

D. Forces too much reliance on crit buffs to PVP.

100% damage would be grand. The reason why docs and traders are the current reigning kings of PVP is because of crits and healing. If normal damage was restored with caps, crits would still be very useful but the shotgun wouldn't be the end-all weapon it is now.

Anyway we've done this 50% off thing for a while, it must have been intended as a quick fix to insta-kill problems, but now a more thoughtful fix is in order as PVP zones expand into other areas.

[Kinkstaah]

1 shotgun crit = dead.
Its that simple.
I mean, get UVC and a scope, and you can have a 40% chance of dying instantly.

That - Dumb.

Find a way to make heals only heal half, debuffs only debuff half etc when in PVP. You CAN tell when you are under attack by a player. It says "PLayer Blah" hit you for X

It shouldnt be impossible to implement. And well, if you are under attack by a mob and a player? 75? Who knows.

Bump.

[__________NicholaSix]

Maybe it would just be easier to have 100% damage, keep the 40% cap then give everyone 200% hp. Then at least high level pvm would be closer to balanced.

The problem with the current system, nurfing heals to 50%, nurfing MK sheilds to 50% would just be so hard to do. I doubt debuffs would be halved, but their duration is very long. 1 will always last a whole fight. but HP buffs, challenger and hot's would need to all be halved too. Same with layered protection.

Another thing, the reason why eveyone looks so the same is because armor currently is 200% more effective in PVP than in PVM so everyone loads up on exactly the same stuff to max ac rather than trying to be a little unique.

Anyway something needs to be done soon because there are huge imballances at different levels in PVP.

[________________Ecce]

NT are the gimped ones, no special healing, and 6-18 seconds to cast their high damage nano, just to have it cut to 40%.

In fact, I never pvp, but when I am attacked, I'll start casting, only to die before ever getting off a shot.

Oh well, can't balance everything or everything would be the same.

Ecce, lvl 93 NT

[______________Ampris]

Originally posted by Ecce
NT are the gimped ones, no special healing, and 6-18 seconds to cast their high damage nano, just to have it cut to 40%.

Are you sure that nanos aren't treated like all other attacks and are simply cut in half?

I'm not sure, but I would be surprised if nanos were treated as a special attack and capped at 40% max HP.

At least, the impression I got from reading the patch notes was that nanos damage was simply cut in half and wasn't capped in PvP.

[__________NicholaSix]

Actually for DDs it's both, first it's cut in half, then if that half exceeds 40% it's capped at 40%.

[__________Mindswayer]

Originally posted by ULTRA1
Actually for DDs it's both, first it's cut in half, then if that half exceeds 40% it's capped at 40%.

Oh my god! That's unacceptable! And ontop of that you're paying full nano cost.

[Arinia]

I'm almost certain that the reason they did the damage cap was so that fights wouldn't be 10 seconds long (still are at times, but..... better than they were).

Putting damage to 100% again is going to solve the crit problem but make that fast fight problem come back and bite them in the arse.

200% HP with 100% damage is an intriguing idea but it would totally unbalance PvM unfortunately.

As Mike said (basically):

PvP = all about crits = just plain wrong.

[___________Damion666]

lol.... nt's... the gimps of pvp

[__________Merkaba715]

since when do any of you think the shotgun crit isnt capped also?

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by ULTRA1
The current 40% cap is very nice, and have no complaints about it, but the 50% off all attacks is a big issue for me.

A. Gives De-buff classes too much time to cast all the de-buffs they want.

B. Gives classes that can heal an unfair advantage against classes that rely on nano pool to deal damge. The cost bases for exchanging HP is twice as high for damage casters than damage healers.

C. Devistates low consistent damage classes like MAs and Advs in PVP.

D. Forces too much reliance on crit buffs to PVP.

100% damage would be grand. The reason why docs and traders are the current reigning kings of PVP is because of crits and healing. If normal damage was restored with caps, crits would still be very useful but the shotgun wouldn't be the end-all weapon it is now.

Anyway we've done this 50% off thing for a while, it must have been intended as a quick fix to insta-kill problems, but now a more thoughtful fix is in order as PVP zones expand into other areas.

Amen

[mrpres1dent]

Most healing classes can't even compete with other classes in PvP right now. Adventurers? Hah. MA's? BAH! Doctors? Unless they went shotgun.. should be easy. Traders are about the only healing class that other professions need to worry about.. and here you are crying that we should have our heals halved.

Most healing classes don't do half the damage other professions do -- and in PvP even with full, uncapped heals, most still can't win.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there, on the healing thing. It's just cause of those shotgun-wielding Doctors. They're "uber". I'm not sure what to do about it, but please don't nerf the other classes just because of the Doc's.

NO, this is not a flame. This is just my point of view, since a lot of people have been crying about Heals not being capped/halved in PvP. Remember, Heals aren't constant -- they have a min-max range. And most of the time, they heal for just under min, which even the highest QL heal for a class would only equate to about 500-700 points.. unless you're a Doc, then you got those Complete Heals

(flojojojo|level 158 adventurer|rk2|sartan.epoch)

[______________gibeon]

healing is not "uber"

Its very awesome, no doubt, but its not the earth shattering or unbalancing.

Most if not all classes has the ability to heal. (Mongo, direct heals, HoTs, heal pets). Who is the only class that cant heal with one of those methods? Crats? NT's?

MA's heal, advs heal, docs heal, traders heal, metas have a heal pet, soldiers heal (cough), enforcers mongo, fixers have a HoT.

Egineers I dont think can heal, nor can nts or crats.

You can use health kits though.

half damage when hitting 400 every 10 seconds, or 40 every second, doesnt really matter does it? Whats your arguement with that? Why is one better then another?


And another thing, just because someone thinks docs with shotguns are so "uber", doesnt mean there is a profession imbalance. Shotguns or beams with a crit buff and low light scope will be very deadly to most pvp'ers that dont have a high duck evade. Its not a class pvp imbalance, its a game mechanic that is being taken advantage of.

You take away a crit buff on a doc, and put him up against an enf with a beam/hammer and maxed evades, and guess who will win? The enf every time. I would bet on it (equal level of course).

and complete heal is 1400 nano... how many times do you think you will be casting that? When your 160 doc, do you have 5600 nano pool so you can do it at least 4 times?

And crits dominate all aspects of combat, not just pvp. Its that way in pvm too.

[Metachrom]

Why Docs are kings of PvP?
Cheap heals, good dmg (shotgun + Dot's), and INI DEBUFF!
The last one just devastates any class and make it impossible to win against a doc in pvp...
So at lvl 160 doc will win an Enf almost for sure...

[__________NicholaSix]

Well in addition to 100% damage and 40% cap, I think reducing the chance for a crit dramatically wouldn't be such a bad idea. 200% HP seems like it would unballance PVM, no doubt it would at lower levels and those mobs would have to be re-worked, but at 100+ 200% HP would balance nicely with the current mobs.

It would also give all those NON pet classes a better stance in PVP and PVM then they have now and give them a better ability to solo. I know several 150+ crats, metas, and I'm sure there may even be some engys that can solo 175+ missions. A level 120 solider would have a real challenge, no matter how well he was built, soloing a 120 mission.

It's a common mantra, 200% hp would unbalance PVM, but at the rate damge is delt in the higher level game 200% HP would make less of a difference than you think. Even 150% HP would be nice, and it would make 100% damage in PVP not totally atrocious.

Anyway damage and heals can't be on 2 different systems, there shouldn't be classes for PVP and then classes for PVM there should be one combat system with classes that have identical strenghts and weaknesses when fighting mobs or players.

[_______________Fryli]

Why are some of u ppl so ignorant when it comes to heals vs dmg?
Heals counter dmg by "giving" back some of the hp that is lost by dmg, but professions with shields don't take dmg.
A nt's with nullity can tank lots of ppl while doing aoe, even ppl at equal lvl. I will sertainly loose at lvl 174 fighting 2 other professions equal my lvl but an nt or soldier would prolly survive.

Ultra we are friends ingame, and mostly i agree upon what u are writing, but u know it if a soldier is played right he is the top 1 pvp profession. There is no way in h.... i can beat a equal lvl soldier with mk x and a Flashpoint or some other spes wpn.
100/40 dmg will pretty mutch put us back to the old days with instakill. And when it comes to nt's, they whine about that they can't kill us with nukes only, well i can't kill them either with my dot's and nuke only....when we count heal, shield, and stim into this. Whe are about equal, or atleast to a sertain point equal compared to before the 1/2 dmg patch. But if we add gun's into this "math" we bout get pretty awsome....

In most of my fights 1 vs 1i end up empty or almost empty of nano after i've stacked a cpl dot's, debuff and done some healing. And i often have to run because i'm out of nano.

100/40 dmg will bring back lots of instakills and everyone, included me will sertainly go for a instakill wpn.

Regards,

Fryli

[__________NicholaSix]

Yep Fryli, I see your point and it makes a lot of sense. My main is of course a soldier, and I have a MA and NT that I am very fond of as well.

There really needs to be some unity in combat systems. I would gladly sugggest some possiable soldier nurfs that could be incorporated with a 100% damage patch that could enclude removing the flashpoint and westinghouse from the data base, forcing a recharge time between specials of say 5 seconds, lengthening the already long recharge time of full-auto, lengthen the time to switch weapons even more (and as you know you can't switch weapons anyway while MK is fired for the duration fo the 20 second recharge). Or just remove Full-auto from the game on top of adding a recharge time between specials. I think all those things are reasonable changes.

IF those kinds of soldier nurfs were in place how would you feel about 100% damage and say 150% hp and a highly reduced change of a crit, say 20% of what it is now?

I can see how 100% damge could be a benefit to you as well fryli, your Dots would do signifigantly more damage over time, but over all you'd be a bit more vunerable to death as well.

I think 100% damage would increase the pace of PVP, and I admit it's pretty fast as it is, but anyone can run away from PVP fights as the game is set up now. The only time I ever die now is if I do something really dumb. I have to make a catastrophic mistake to end up dead with any of my characters, crash on a zone, or be rooted by somone at one of my noobs levels and then attacked by some 30-100 levels higher to die.

PVP is just so timid ATM, and part of it is the title scoring system, and part of it is the fact that running is so easy because of the reduced damage.

[_______________bluei]

Actually, PvP is getting fairly decent - with the exception of crit buffs. I've talked to a lot of players and many of them concur that if crit enhancing buffs and items were removed from the pvp component (e.g, MA buffs or scopes had no impact on pvp damage) - things would be a little more balanced in general.

Just a thought - and OH - there should be a 15 second delay on ANY kind of zoning while in a pvp fight (shops, whompahs, zone borders, etc). =^P

-B

[________________Ming]

All that need to happen is:

Keep 40% of total HP cap on every type of attack.

Remove the half damage cap on all attacks.

End of problems.

[Skymarshal]

Please dont sugest ant nerfs to soldiers... I already have a hard enough time figting PvM... Nerfing us to allow for better PvP would just make those of us who dont PvP unless we have to that much more upset.

:|


P.s Soldiers heal?