Mysterious and Unexplainable Deaths!
Often I am fighting a weak enemy, and have plenty of HP left, and suddenly I die. It's unexplainable. It's happened to me at least five times so far, and I've lost over 3000 XP! (that's a lot for a level 8)
I've spoken with others and they all say this bug has been around for a while, can somebody please explain the status of the fix?
On a similar subject (mysterious loss of HP), I sometimes lose health when I zone. And no, I'm positive it's not lagged damage.
Make that 6 times that it's happened
This has happened seven times! I would have leveled at least twice if it weren't for this, and I'm seriously considering leaving AO completely! A bug fix doesn't have to be immediate, but can somebody at least acknowledge its existance?
The "so-called" bug is the lag latency between the server and the client, Funcom is highly aware of the problem, but has not really a solution to it as many of the players live in USA and ... are actually playing on modems.Originally posted by Paradox13
This has happened seven times! I would have leveled at least twice if it weren't for this, and I'm seriously considering leaving AO completely! A bug fix doesn't have to be immediate, but can somebody at least acknowledge its existance?
If you are playing over a modem, sorry, but then you have no one else to blame than yourself.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings in blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he pass'd;
And the eyes of the sleepers wax'd deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
- Lord Byron
[ alpha.omega ]
'If you are playing over a modem, sorry, but then you have no one else to blame than yourself.'
Funcom has the minimum requirements posted on their site, and apparantly a dial-up modem is supposed to work just fine. And these client/server latencies you speak of.. I've got news for you, they happen with any connection, whether it be DSL, cable, whatever. So who's to blame, really? The customer for having above and beyond these minimum requirements? Or Funcom for having unstable and overcrowded servers?
Well...
Lag and latency are network issues in general, though server overload cannot be ruled out. I obviously don't know the details of Funcom's setup but would expect latencies from server load to rarely be a major issue except in the cities. Latencies in the network could be occuring anywhere from Funcom's LAN to you ISP's LAN and all points in between. I play on a cable modem, and do get latency spikes, but usually, latencies are fairly low. Its very easy to blame Funcom for everything (hey, you try running AO!), but in many cases I suspect your problems are entirely beyond FCs control (I'm not saying they all are mind you...)
Overcrowded servers because more than X procentage of the player database obviously plays over modem. Despite what Funcom says, I recall it was clearly stated on the Half-Life (Counter-Strike) box that 28.8 modems works without a problem. Well, just exactly how many plays CS or whatever on a modem unless they actually believe that it works (it does, but then again they can hardly blame Funcom for the lag they may encounter) well.Originally posted by Dezzie
Or Funcom for having unstable and overcrowded servers?
And overcrowded servers is not Funcoms fault. It is due to the fact that AO is popular despite all its problems.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings in blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he pass'd;
And the eyes of the sleepers wax'd deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
- Lord Byron
[ alpha.omega ]
I have cable.
If I am on cable, have 150 health left, and the green enemy I am facing never hits more than 5 damage, how am I supposed to blame this on lag?
Not even fighting a mob and die...
In the same zone now twice in the last 3 days I've been in a team with someone who has just died for no reason at all.
The first one was an NT, the one last night an Adventurer. They're not low on health, being attacked or anything. To both them and to us they appear to be at full health. We were recently fighting a mob, but that has been finished for about 30 seconds. And then... just for no reason at all.... they're dead. And in both cases it wasn't like "oh yeah I thought that might happen" it was... "WTF!?!?!". The NT at the time was refreshing their Layer Protection, the Adventurer was doing nothing except get ready for next fight..
Anyone else had this?
"I'm going to kill you." "You're going to kill us?" "No, no I'm not, I'm just kidding."
are you on rk1? i wonder if this is a rubi-ka 1 only problem. i'm on rk2, neither my buddies or myself has ever experienced this bug.
????
damage stacking is alot worse recently, i have had alot of cases of damage stacking in the last few weeks where i dont record damage or a team mate just falls over after a fight in which he was healing another team member from afar and after the fight we are just talking and he flops over dead.
Biffatnugly 200 Enforcer
->Stats 150 Engineer
Jadeivy 98 Doctor
Jamms 40 Keeper
Zipsky 20 Martial-Artist
I'm on RK1, girl
Originally posted by Gelder
The "so-called" bug is the lag latency between the server and the client, Funcom is highly aware of the problem, but has not really a solution to it as many of the players live in USA and ... are actually playing on modems.
If you are playing over a modem, sorry, but then you have no one else to blame than yourself.
Tell you what... why don't you come over here and get the phone companies to OFFER a better service than 56K? Perhaps you would like to front their bill to upgrade all of us?
Do you really think those of us STUCK with 56K are doing so by choice? Get real, get a clue. Pisses me off when people like you forget that MOST of the world does NOT have the option of getting a high speed connection like you have. Most of us are stuck with 56K as the ONLY option.
Sure I could move to the big city like you to get DSL... but why? There is no intelligent life there. No, I will just stay here in my back woods log cabin and await the arrival of my new satellite dish. Then I will return and insult YOU with trivial crap about how slow your DSL or cable line is and that it is ONLY YOUR FAULT that you cannot get something better.
Figure it out....and get a clue.
Malakie
Team in PM, 3 times, 2 different players. One NT, can't remember the profession on the other guy.Originally posted by Kikmaidog
In the same zone now twice in the last 3 days I've been in a team with someone who has just died for no reason at all...
...Anyone else had this?
These were not the guys taking the hits. In fact, one of them hadn't taken a single blow. Full health, and then -Waaaaah! WTF?
I'm guessing these guys didn't have a lot of HP so it could have been a 'invisible' crit that killed them. However they said that they never were under attack.
It looked very Izgimmerish, but we weren't fighting Nukers.
/G13
pirates. with lasers.
Are you having an argument on the internet, again?
Gene13 - on a space odyssey since 2001
XXX - N
Some day your ship will come in, but you will be at the airport.
Umm. I underlined some things in that post by Malakie that I thought were... well... frustrating.Originally posted by Malakie
Do you really think those of us STUCK with 56K are doing so by choice? Get real, get a clue. Pisses me off when people like you forget that MOST of the world does NOT have the option of getting a high speed connection like you have. Most of us are stuck with 56K as the ONLY option
Sure I could move to the big city like you to get DSL... but why? There is no intelligent life there. No, I will just stay here in my back woods log cabin and await the arrival of my new satellite dish. Then I will return and insult YOU with trivial crap about how slow your DSL or cable line is and that it is ONLY YOUR FAULT that you cannot get something better.
Figure it out....and get a clue.
Malakie
So, what you're saying is that is IS your fault that you have a 56k. If it made you so angry you WOULD move to a larger city. If you are going to get a "new satellite dish" then you shouldn't really be angry.
Which brings me to another point, why are you angry? Do you think that a 56k modem HELPS latency? Do you feel that insulting a 56k modem is insulting you? Do you feel so insecure that you need to get angry about a slowdem? Oh my fault... I meant MODEM.
There are always alternatives. Hell, if your telephone/cable company felt there was a market (Read "People were actually going to use it") for a High Speed Internet Connection they'd probably upgrade. Having people call/email the cable company worked where I used to live.
Originally posted by Soozan
Umm. I underlined some things in that post by Malakie that I thought were... well... frustrating.
So, what you're saying is that is IS your fault that you have a 56k. If it made you so angry you WOULD move to a larger city. If you are going to get a "new satellite dish" then you shouldn't really be angry.
Which brings me to another point, why are you angry? Do you think that a 56k modem HELPS latency? Do you feel that insulting a 56k modem is insulting you? Do you feel so insecure that you need to get angry about a slowdem? Oh my fault... I meant MODEM.
There are always alternatives. Hell, if your telephone/cable company felt there was a market (Read "People were actually going to use it") for a High Speed Internet Connection they'd probably upgrade. Having people call/email the cable company worked where I used to live.
Obviously you do not have any idea of what you are talking about on this one.. First, I was replying because I am tired of people thinking they are 'better' than someone else just because they have a high speed connection. Second, my reply was stated VERY sarcastically. And third, his statement was an insult to another of which I simply came to the defense.
But, let's get back to your point about modems causing lag. If you knew anything at all about this area you would know that in this type of game and many other online games, modems DO NOT CAUSE lag! It is the server behind it and the underlying connection BETWEEN the modem and the server. Games and other applications that are based on client/server design use both the client and the server to process the intensive information. There is actually very little information passing via the connection. Not enough to even overload a modem.
The reason large bandwidth connections do better in this situation is not because they are necessarily faster rather they are able to send and recieve MORE information INCLUDING all the errors at one time. For example when a packet is sent, if that packet contains 100 errors, the DSL can process more of those errors and request new data in a much more large amount than a modem can.
In High error connections, sure a modem will be slower but it is not the modems fault rather it is the connections or server fault for having all those errors in the first place.
If you run a system where no errors are sent or occur, a modem can run just as smoothly as a DSL or any other pipe.
Now if you are running a game or package that requires LARGE amounts of data for transfer, then yes the DSL or cable WILL be much more advantageous because the can handle much more than a modem. But since we are talking about AO, that is just simply not the case. The client and the server process everything here and the amount of information going back and forth on this system a modem can handle easily.
AO is not lagging because of modems. It is lagging because either the servers are not handling the amount of load placed on them or the connection infrastructure is just not able to handle it.
Want proof? Simple. Play AO during peek hours of say 6-7pm cst USA time. Then play again at about 2-3am cst USA time. BIG difference. And why? Because at that time of the morning there is very few people on. It becomes VERY apparent that once mobs of people log in that the system just cannot handle the load.
That is NOT people who use modems fault.
Tell you what, it is too bad there is no way to hook you and I together.. DSL directly to my modem. No one else. I would play you any game we both can play and know.. And I bet your DSL does you know good when it comes to winning or loosing. DSL does not make the gamer. The gamer makes the gamer.
And back to my frustration. Again I am frustrated at people who start threads like this by insulting someone else. THAT is my frustration.
And moving to the city? I am not as stupid as you think I am. I have yet to figure out WHY someone would move to a place of concrete, pollution, noise, crime and all the other things that come with putting millions of humans in one small area.
I can go out back and drink CLEAN water, breath CLEAN air and at night, not a sound.. not a whisper. And I can leave my doors unlocked if I want to. I can walk down my street without worrying about being mugged. Can most in a city do that?
I love it when someone tries to insult 'we country boys'. You city slickers have no clue what life can really be like.
Malakie
its all very well to say that it isnt Funcoms fault, but when i die without apparently taking any hits then i lay the blame at funcoms door.
either the code they use isnt working properly,
cant cope with the network that it uses, ie the internet,
or its working but is simply not good enuf.
I have played this type of multiplayer game for years, ping isnt really a big issue, and a seconds lag can be coped with, so my own equipment isnt likely to be much of a factor ( within reason) when I die without even registering a hit.
Argue if like that the code being used works well, but i think we all know that is not the case. If that were true the completely unexplained crashes, deaths invisible mobs etc etc would not be happening after 6 months of work.
I am close to calling it a day only because im getting fed up of wasting my time.
Until I played this game almoast all my deaths were my fault, ie I made an error of some kind which lead to my death.
Out of my last 10 deaths, only 2 could i put down to an error ( and even those I could have made good if I could have seen the mob)
All of the others are crashes in a fight, invisible mobs, doors that i suddenly cant get thru and that type of thing.
Not in my view classical lag issues.
Okay, you said that you're sick of people thinking they're better than you because they have a faster connection. However, what the hell is this?
*GASP!* Are you generalizing a populous? Just because we chose to live in a larger city we're not intelligent? Hmmm.Originally posted by Malakie
Sure I could move to the big city like you to get DSL... but why? There is no intelligent life there.
Um. It REALLY isn't the server's fault. Take any multiplayer game. Connect to a server and play using a modem. Connect to the same server with DSL or a cable connection. I gaurantee you will see improvement. So this is no insult to you in any way, but a LARGE portion of the lag you are experiancing may be the result of your modem.
Also, one of the main hold-ups I experiance during populated hours is the GRAPHICAL loading of the characters. Each character looks different, moves independently, and requires a lot of power to process. The only difference I ever experiance is the loading of the areas where there are large congregations of people. And think about this. The server has to send you information about what each person is wearing, what action they are doing, what direction they are moving, what buffs they are running. That's a lot of information... do you really think that a 56kbps modem (if they ever ran that fast, ever wonder why you never download from anywhere at the advertised 56k/sec?) can EASILY handle that? Tell me what system could!
You never played Half-Life did you. You never noticed that when you pressed "fire" it took a noticable time for it to actually fire. There certainly was a reason why LPB's were refered to as "Low Ping Bastads." When they fired a bullet, it went were it was aimed, when a modem user fired they had to anticipate where they would move in the next second. There certainly is "more skill" involved in modem gaming, but that's because of the modem's downfalls.Originally posted by Malakie
Tell you what, it is too bad there is no way to hook you and I together.. DSL directly to my modem. No one else. I would play you any game we both can play and know.. And I bet your DSL does you know good when it comes to winning or loosing. DSL does not make the gamer. The gamer makes the gamer.
Also, since the "bug" is the latency, can you HONESTLY tell me that a modem helps you in the least? It IS the modems fault. It is all of our faults for not having T1 lines installed!
Oh wait, you're right, it is funcom's fault. I suggest we just turn the game into 2D side scroller. That would solve everything!
So enjoy sulking in your bitterness.
NOTE: During busy server times everyone will lag. That's life.
Last edited by Soozan; Feb 26th, 2002 at 03:49:53.
input
I have a cable modem. I play in the early hours of the morning to avoid "local" causes for "packet loss". All of my characters are on RK1. I have had numerous incidents of this nature. In most cases the fight is over I heal up then WHAMMOO I'm dead. I'm not having any of the other symptoms of "lag". I can notice those almost instantly... but then am left in terror. Because there is nothing I can do and I have no idea how bad the consequences will be. (I've lost bags full of valuable stuff and money as well as XP!!) So I would rule out Lag as being the cause. And it seems to happen more frequently in zones that are sparsely populated so that also suggests something other than "lag".
I'd almost say that this game "calculates" that a character should die and just kills them. It's a random thing. I had a level 18 character that was close to leveling. She went to Omni HQ to help a lower level player finish a mission. She is an MP and didn't team with the other character - just put a heal pet on him and tagged along. When we got done we went back to the gate. My MP had switched to Social Armor and only had a heal pet active which was under command to heal her - as zoning caused you to take damage from your implants (as in the game didn't calculate your implant bonuses). When "out of the Blue" the Elite Guard killed my character instantly. I lost the entire levels worth of XP. And the "cause" was never explained to me!! BTW this was that character's first trip to the reclaim booth.
You can argue about the use of modems... I don't care. I sincerely don't think the issue has anything to do with lag. All I do know is that it makes people not want to play AO. If FunCom wants people to play their game then they need to address the issue. Somehow I don't think they care!
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