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Thread: The Sentinels -Leaders of the Clans? (long)

  1. #81
    Hmm ..

    "The Sentinels -Leaders of the Clans?" - No.

    Now. Like the Council of Truth, not every clan recognises Simon Silverstone as the leader of the Clans. In fact, probably only a minority think of him as their leader. However, a military dictatorship is not subject to democratic rules, and as long as he remains in Tir, uncontested, he must be seen as the only real leader of the Clans.
    Well, the thing is .. Clan influence stretches beyond Tir.

    Also, as weird as this might seem, yes .. Silverstone is a subject to democracy as well.
    He's not really the clan leader unless the clans want to follow him and do so.

    Sir Galahad and his knights, also a clan structure, is in control of most of Avalon. There's no thread started about wether he's the leader of the clans.

    The only way for the sentinels to rule the clans would be by force. I don't think it is in Silverstone's interest to start a civil war.
    Last edited by Didymus; Mar 21st, 2003 at 11:32:33.
    Didymus - Solitus Trader, Member of Instability

  2. #82
    Hehe, or maybe you should learn the facts of what you're talking about before assuming moderates are doing nothing. For your information, we've tried many things. Killing them doesn't work so we're trying something else. For your information, we've already started a plan to remove the Sentinels and the inactivity is not on our part.


    I find all of that very amusing..

    I am well aware of what has been done..
    Let me refphrase that What Nelida and Fixerben have done...

    You say We.. Funny I don't remeber you there with Nelida Ben and I claming.. shooting Sentinels..

    I am also aware of plans that were made to remove the Sentinels..

    What have you Uwen done to help remove the Sentinels from Tir..

    I see alot of people claim to have worked very hard regarding the situation in Tir..
    Yet I only ever really recall Nelida and Fixerben championing the effort..
    (Besides the Neutral assault on Fisk and company)

    Seems after some people took notice of these efforts and approached
    them with an offer to possibly remove the Sentinels that there were plenty
    to step in line and take credit...

    Nothing at all personal.. well maybe it is..

    Just tired of seeing people take credit for the work of others...
    ~*~ Nanoprincess ~*~
    Katelin Cyani Kerans

  3. #83
    A while back I was asked by a certain individual with a lot of "political pull" with the various great Clan leaders (NPC leaders) to submit a proposal that was somewhat formalized one night in The Cup. At the time there were six Clan guilds and various interested citizens that wanted to see the removal of the Sentinels. While Nelida and Fixerben were amongst the most vocal, they by all means were NOT the only ones that supported the movement. This was the formal response given at the time:

    Greetings Mr. Thor,

    I represent a group of leaders and individuals who have grave concerns as to what the esteemed Mr. Silverstone and his Sentinels are doing in Tir. The Clan organizations currently involved include the following: Unity of the Rose, First Light, Vitae Covente, Mercury Dragons, Valor Eternal, Rubi-ka Freedom Fighters, and my guild, Whisper's Edge. On an individual basis there are members from Arion, Apocalypse, and a number of others. There are many within the Neutral community that are interested in the activities of the Sentinels.

    We believe that the actions of the Sentinels have besmirched the good name of the Clans. We are supposed to be fighting for freedom from tyranny, not supporting just another dictator. While we recognize the valuable service that Mr. Silverstone and his troops provide, we are equally appalled at his wanton hatred and brutality against Neutrals.

    We also believe that the Sentinels would better serve the Clans if they were placed in a sector closer to where Omni assault Clan mining interests. Maybe in Central Artery Valley, Mort, or perhaps in that Perpetual Wastelands. This would give his troops the action they crave directed at the real threat, Omni-Tek.

    We of course are not so foolish as to leave our capital unguarded. We wish for Lord Galahad or one of the other great, but moderate Clan leaders to assume the guard duties; providing the same level of security against Omni for the capital that the Sentinels currently do. Neutrals should have free passage in Clan cities as we are about freedom, not oppression.

    This is something many have been fighting for since the day the Sentinels marched in. The Sentinels produced ill will amongst the Neutrals and prompted the hiring of mercs to guard Newland. This is unfortunate and it is hoped that after the Sentinels are relocated, the contract will expire in Newland. This should help ease tensions between Clan and Neutral peoples. Thank you for your time.



    Cathern "Vixentrox" Flowers
    President,
    Whisper's Edge
    Atlantean
    Clan


    The movement has since been increased to nine Clans. Last night, Lord Gallahad's troops were observed marching though various Clan cities and towns. It seems Lord Gallahad might be returning from the shadows.
    Last edited by Vixentrox; Mar 21st, 2003 at 16:41:51.
    -Finalizer Vixentrox-
    Former President and Founder,
    -Whisper's Edge-
    Former Member of the Atlantean CoT Clerical Staff

    Socializer 73% Killer 53% Explorer 53% Achiever 20%

    Kissysuzuki -
    WTB small enough brain and lack of imagination to be able to sit and solo hecklers for 5 days straight.

  4. #84
    Cyani, no one is trying to "take credit for other peoples' work". I have maintained all along that the work Nelida has done has been invaluable to the clans. Not only has she calmed guards in Tir and elsewhere to allow the safe passage of citizens of all factions, she has also championed the RKMC as well as many other peace efforts. Fixerben assisted her in neutralizing the guards, and Benjacrat co-chaired the RKMC.

    Reducing this to petty bickering about who did what is useless. No one is a hero in this. We are all small pieces on a very large chess board, moving independently and yet striving towards a greater goal.

    Since you insist on knowing what the moderates have "done" to remove the Sentinels, as a follow up to Vixentrox's post, have a look at this.
    Last edited by Emiliy; Mar 21st, 2003 at 15:30:06.
    Emiliy Age
    Unit Leader, Foreign Relations
    Speak your heart, don't bite your tongue...

    Whisper's Edge | Gridmail | Engy's Workshop | Tir School of Engineering

    Bliqz on Shadowlands: "Gonna make it hard to decide who I can and cant eat."

  5. #85
    Gestava, recruiting slogans did not worry us. The "or else" threat did.

    While "or else" could have been used as nothing more than psychology babble to demoralize our people, the phrase could have also meant Omni-Tek was planning and all out assault on Tir to bring down our capital city. Who knows, maybe Omni-Tek was at a point where the lease meant nothing anymore if it meant ridding the world of clans once and for all. We'll never know for sure. Nonetheless, that threat is gone. And in case you didn't notice, the people of Tir are safe from that.

    But, I can see why you'd still rather have the ICC guard in Tir. You were probably among those that came into Tir spewing recuriting slogans. Maybe you got some enjoyment watching our people grow tired and upset from that. Yes, like I said, I can see why you'd rather the ICC still be there. Too bad for you.

  6. #86
    Vixentrox, Lord Galahad? The same Lord Galahad that was "constantly laughed out of Council meetings?" The same Galahad that lets Omni-Tek pass freely through his castle?

    I seriously have to begin questioning where the majority of you are getting your information. Silverstone a dictator? Galahad a great, but moderate clan leader?

    If the council laughed Galahad out of their meetings, I can just imagine what Omni-Tek will do to him.

    And Windguaerd, a man whom I repsected for his militance, of Mercury Dragon supports this? I have to question his militance now.

  7. #87
    I personnaly wanted another candidate for the position but those that attended the meeting voted overwhelmingly for Lord Galahad.
    -Finalizer Vixentrox-
    Former President and Founder,
    -Whisper's Edge-
    Former Member of the Atlantean CoT Clerical Staff

    Socializer 73% Killer 53% Explorer 53% Achiever 20%

    Kissysuzuki -
    WTB small enough brain and lack of imagination to be able to sit and solo hecklers for 5 days straight.

  8. #88
    Galahad? Isn't he the guy who likes to dress up like King Arthur and constructs dragons for people to play with in his basement? I seem to recall that and his fondness for B&D themes.

    Well, at least he's got character. Nothing like a guy with a little flare, eh?

    Had to chuckle talking to Supreme Grand Lord Immortal Commander Simon Silverstone the other day as he welcomed me to the 'Free City' of Tir just before he promptly shot me ..

  9. #89
    First of all Cemetarygate, I take strong offense to you accusation that I was one of the people that shouted Omni slogans during the ICC occupation of Tir.
    Personally I find the shouting and disruption of order both crude and out of line.

    And Omni-tek could never attack the ICC. It's not just a question about the lease. If they had attacked ICC forces it would have been seen as an act of war and Omni-tek assests throught the galaxy would have been lawless.
    Omni-tek would have been crushed by the other hyper corporations who would only be too happy to see Omni-tek and it's notum monopoly fall.

  10. #90
    Something I overlooked.

    Rather than holding a vote amongst all clans about whether or not they wanted the Sentinels in Tir, a group of "interested citizens that wanted to see the removal of the Sentinels" was called upon to "submit a proposal" about having the Sentinels removed. That very same group that didn't want the Sentinels in Tir voted upon who they wished to see in Tir.

    The moderate clans preach about how the Sentinels forced their ill will upon them, but it's perfectly fine for the moderate clans to force their ill will on the rest of the clans. If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black.

  11. #91
    It was an open meeting....any Clan member was welcome....also...other Clan members are more than free to to try and effect change. The Sentinals just marched in without any other support. It's not my fault if other leaders are not interested in effecting political change.
    -Finalizer Vixentrox-
    Former President and Founder,
    -Whisper's Edge-
    Former Member of the Atlantean CoT Clerical Staff

    Socializer 73% Killer 53% Explorer 53% Achiever 20%

    Kissysuzuki -
    WTB small enough brain and lack of imagination to be able to sit and solo hecklers for 5 days straight.

  12. #92
    Cyani, once again you're assuming things. I have worked with Nelida and Fixerben to kill Sentinels. You can ask them. I've died fighting Sentinels. I am no where near as experienced as you, Nelida, or Ben when it comes to combat and I openly admit that. Alone, I could do nothing against the Sentinels superior force. I have, however, assisted in killing multiple Sentinels and almost died again attacking Wickham. Once again, learn about what you are talking about before judging me, that is all I ask. I am taking no credit for the work of others. Since I am not as experienced in combat as you, Nelida, and Ben, I have not been able to be more active in attacking the Sentinels with military force. Therefore, I do what I can politically. I've written up a constitution, which is the only thing I take credit for doing. I don't know why you seem to think I'm taking credit for anyone else's work as I most certainly am not. I respect and am very thankful for all the work that fellow moderates have done. I just try to help where I can.

    And as for taking serious action to remove the Sentinels, I do not recall you at our meeting with Bagels.

    Cyani, I don't want to get personal. I really honestly don't. If I've come across as trying to take credit for others work, I'm sorry. Point it out to me and I won't do it again. That is not to say, however, that I have done no work. Like I said, I try to help out where I can. And if you do not believe that I have attacked and helped to kill Sentinels, I have pictures if my word is not good enough. Or pehaps you could ask Ben or Nelida.

    To Gestava, in reference to saying Lexus sounds like a hardline OmniTek- Yes, I completely agree with you. I've offered her OmniTek application forms before, but she rejected them for reasons unknown to me.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  13. #93
    Since you insist on knowing what the moderates have "done" to remove the Sentinels, as a follow up to Vixentrox's post, have a look at this.
    Again, I am very aware of the meeting that took place in the cup with Bagels and who was present.. And again except for a handful of more or less independent actions of a few people I will ask again..

    What have the moderates done?

    In Vix's letter I see a lot of fine guilds.. I just ask where all these moderates and guilds where and what their participation including in leading up to the meeting with Bagels? Just seems the actions of a few are overshadowed by those that want to be noted for actions they had little to influence.

    In her own words she downplays the significance Nelida and Ben played in reaching this point..
    While Nelida and Fixerben were amongst the most vocal, they by all means were NOT the only ones that supported the movement.
    I am well aware that Nelida and Ben are not the only ones who support the removal of the Sentinels from Tir.. The point is they are the few who acted.. Staged regular demonstrations and attacks on the Sentinels...

    My gripe is day in and day out I see various moderates complain about political situations and the state of conflict we are in. I very rarely see any of them take serious action other than point fingers.

    I see why Lexus attacks the moderates so venomously as I have to agree with her.. if our fate where to be left up to the moderates we would be doomed... Sure we would have great parties and social events.. but nothing in order to end this conflict would ever be accomplished..
    ~*~ Nanoprincess ~*~
    Katelin Cyani Kerans

  14. #94
    You see what I mean? all of you are just proving me right, scrapping like a bunch of rabid monkeys, beating your chests to prove who deserves credit for the anti sentinel movement.. *laughs* you all make me sick...surely you can see why you don't deserve a say in "anything" at all.
    "Did I tell you that you could speak?....then why are you still talking?."

  15. #95
    Finally someone who is beginning to see my reasoning, come to the light Cyani..true peace will only comes once we quiet those indecisive voices of the clans.
    "Did I tell you that you could speak?....then why are you still talking?."

  16. #96
    It was going on earlier with posts dripping with venom hoping to make sure that my old guild Elite Operations was given NO credit for the anticipated return of Neutral travel privelages through Tir. Though I really could not have cared a lick about who got the gold star on their 'fridge (and I don't think they cared much either), I found it funny to see people clammering for the spotlight. Such is human nature and as such, it elicits little more than a knowing grin. Ever see the passersby jumping up and down making Blot faces at the camera when a gridfeed reporter is doing a location interview?

    We're all chess pieces anyway in some game we don't even know the rules to yet, I suspect. A game far with far greater potential impact than that of Mr. Ross and the lamentably absent Henry Radiman. I look forward to living long enough to see the first advances toward checkmate.

  17. #97
    Bio you are correct..and that is what I have been saying for sooo long. Human nature, human nature won't allow for peace as long as said humans are given too much free will. They have taken the free will they have so far and instead of putting their efforts towards uniting to a common goal, namely ridding themselves of our grand sentinels, they'd bash each other for the credit. Oh yes I really see a democracy working right now...*rolls her eyes* You can see why a society where they are not given the ability to argue with their masters or mistresses would surely thrive......did I say Mist...I mean their leaders
    "Did I tell you that you could speak?....then why are you still talking?."

  18. #98
    (( Oops. Didn't see you had posted while I was composing my last, Gestava. ))

    Gestava, allegations are just allegations. Why would you be so offended unless there's some truth in the matter?

    For clarification, I wasn't talking about Omni-Tek attacking the ICC, but Omni-Tek attacking the clans. You and I both know the ICC would have done nothing but stand there and watch.

    Also, in case you were unware, Omni-Tek's monopoly on mining is over. That being the case, perhaps clans should stop giving Omni-Tek the notum to be shipped off world. I'm sure Omni-Tek's bussiness associates would hate hearing how their supplier can't keep up with demands. Maybe the'll come to the majority mining holders for their notum then?

  19. #99
    On clan moderates and their lack of action.

    Shouting loudly is a poor substitute for thinking quietly.

    By which I mean to say that simply because you are unaware of a thing, does not necessarily mean that such a thing does not exist. I am sure that when the time comes for shouting all will become aware of it. Certainly any attempts to remove the Sentinels should have those responsible credited and congratulated after they have managed it and the dust has settled, not before. I and mine have our own reasons for opposing Sentinel presence in Tir, reasons that I am happy to discuss privately on-planet should any clanners wish to speak with me upon this matter. My comms, as I am sure Cem and Vix know, remain open to all clanners.

    Ailish.
    Isobel "Ailish" Nottoris
    Thinker, Do-er, Warrior Poet

  20. #100
    Originally posted by Cemetarygate
    (( Oops. Didn't see you had posted while I was composing my last, Gestava. ))

    Gestava, allegations are just allegations. Why would you be so offended unless there's some truth in the matter?

    For clarification, I wasn't talking about Omni-Tek attacking the ICC, but Omni-Tek attacking the clans. You and I both know the ICC would have done nothing but stand there and watch.

    Also, in case you were unware, Omni-Tek's monopoly on mining is over. That being the case, perhaps clans should stop giving Omni-Tek the notum to be shipped off world. I'm sure Omni-Tek's bussiness associates would hate hearing how their supplier can't keep up with demands. Maybe the'll come to the majority mining holders for their notum then?
    Better build yerself some railguns or else you'll be sitting on top of a big pile of unrefined Notum and nothing to be able to do with it. Head over to Clon**** to see what you'll need to launch building-sized loads of Notum into the atmosphere. Transport crafts can't make it into orbit through the interference.

    Imagine the toy machine that dispenses those childhood curiosities that every once in a while contains the key to the Toy Factory. Now imagine every single little capsule contained this valuable item. Sure, keep 'em all for yerself. Only problem is you can't open 'em up. Just pull out yer box of ever increasing quantity and look at it.

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