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Thread: The Sentinels -Leaders of the Clans? (long)

  1. #61
    What did I just say Uwen? it doesn't matter what you want, you don't get a say in the matter. That is the one major flaw of any government, giving people choices. They WILL abuse them, plain and simple, you show me one succesful democracy...you can't because one has never existed, nor will it ever exist. Call me an extremist..I actually invite you to, because if all the clans have is a bunch of soft hearted hug jockeys, then our future is doomed. Death to Omni Tek, death to Neutrals and Death to Clan traitors.
    "Did I tell you that you could speak?....then why are you still talking?."

  2. #62
    Death to clan traitors? Does this mena you'll be committing suicide soon? I'm not going to call you an extremist, or at least not a clan extremist because you aren't. You aren't extreme with clanner ideals. You're just extreme, with ideals closer to that of OmniTek, in a governing respect.

    ((EDIT: Once again, can't spell worth a damn))
    Last edited by Uwen; Mar 21st, 2003 at 08:37:26.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  3. #63
    Emiliy, what you said, I knew that wasn't directed at me. Poor wording on my part. More appropriately, I should have said that I do not see myself like Silverstone, but can understand where he's comming from in regard to his actions.

    I can't agree to the 'slaughter of neutrals is wrong', seeing as how such neutral terrorist coalitions exist as BORPAC, but can agree that attacking and/or killing those that truely have no stance in the conflict is wrong.

    Uwen, look at how "sick and tired" you're getting from "these idiotic statements implying" you're "some kind of spy when no one has one single shred of evidence or proof." The exact same thing you and Fixerben do to Silverstone. Doesn't feel good, does it?

  4. #64
    Originally posted by Cemetarygate
    you're getting from "these idiotic statements implying" you're "some kind of spy when no one has one single shred of evidence or proof." The exact same thing you and Fixerben do to Silverstone. Doesn't feel good, does it?
    No, its not the same thing. The only thing I've said about Silverstone is that he is a military dictator tyrant. This is fact. He invaded and conquered Tir without asking anyone by the use of military force. He banned neutrals from Tir without asking anyone by the use of military force. That is a dictator. That is fact. That is proof. It is not the same thing as arbitrarily saying I am a spy.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  5. #65
    Originally posted by Uwen
    No, its not the same thing. The only thing I've said about Silverstone is that he is a military dictator tyrant. This is fact. He invaded and conquered Tir without asking anyone by the use of military force. He banned neutrals from Tir without asking anyone by the use of military force. That is a dictator. That is fact. That is proof. It is not the same thing as arbitrarily saying I am a spy.
    I'm going to use the bathroom without asking your permission. Yes, by your logic then, I'm a dictator.

  6. #66
    Originally posted by Cemetarygate


    I'm going to use the bathroom without asking your permission. Yes, by your logic then, I'm a dictator.
    No, thats not my logic. Going to the bathroom is nothing like taking over a damned city and imposing your rule. If you can;'t understand that there is something seriously wrong. Now... if you forced someone else to go to the bathroom, then we'd have a different talk
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  7. #67
    Originally posted by Uwen
    No, thats not my logic. Going to the bathroom is nothing like taking over a damned city and imposing your rule. If you can;'t understand that there is something seriously wrong. Now... if you forced someone else to go to the bathroom, then we'd have a different talk
    I'm invading and conquering the bathroom without asking anyone. I will use military force as necessary. I will ban anyone from entering the bathroom while I'm inside. And while thousands may knock on the door and wish to enter, I will threaten them, and I will shoot them on site of entering the bathroom.

    Now, while the bathroom is smaller than a city, the principle is the same.

  8. #68
    Originally posted by Cemetarygate


    I'm invading and conquering the bathroom without asking anyone. I will use military force as necessary. I will ban anyone from entering the bathroom while I'm inside. And while thousands may knock on the door and wish to enter, I will threaten them, and I will shoot them on site of entering the bathroom.

    Now, while the bathroom is smaller than a city, the principle is the same.
    No, its not the same. People don't live in the bathroom. I'm assuming you are talking about your bathroom. You're conquering something thats already yours. So, once again, it is NOT the same thing at all.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  9. #69
    Originally posted by Uwen
    No, its not the same. People don't live in the bathroom. I'm assuming you are talking about your bathroom. You're conquering something thats already yours. So, once again, it is NOT the same thing at all.
    I'm talking about yours. Does that still make it same?

  10. #70
    Originally posted by Cemetarygate


    I'm talking about yours. Does that still make it same?
    No, its still not the same because a bathroom and a city are two very different things. If you do come into my house and..er... conquer my bathroom, you'll be a criminal for breaking and entry as well as a couple other crimes. So are you trying to prove to be that not only is Silverstone a dictator, but he is a criminal too?
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  11. #71
    You don't ask a police force to police either do you Uwen? Have you ever done so? Do Omni citizens tell Omni Pol to Police them? Do I recall wanting the council of truth in place like they were? By your own logic simply because a person doesn't want something it makes it automatically wrong. The sentinels don't need your permission to do what they do. You are stating all the reasons why free will in the hands of someone who just doesn't understand how to use it is a dangerous thing.
    "Did I tell you that you could speak?....then why are you still talking?."

  12. #72
    Originally posted by Uwen
    No, its still not the same because a bathroom and a city are two very different things. If you do come into my house and..er... conquer my bathroom, you'll be a criminal for breaking and entry as well as a couple other crimes. So are you trying to prove to be that not only is Silverstone a dictator, but he is a criminal too?
    So, what you're saying is that a dictatorship derives from ownership. That is, I don't own your bathroom, but by me comming in and conquering it without your permission makes me a crinimal, not a dictator.

    Silverstone, while being clan and having just as much right to call Tir home like you or I, steps into this city, forces out all non clan personal and guards without your permission makes him a dictator?

    So, if I start guarding tir from neutrals and Omni-Tek without your permission, I too would be a dictator?

  13. #73
    Originally posted by Lexusstreak
    You don't ask a police force to police either do you Uwen? Have you ever done so? Do Omni citizens tell Omni Pol to Police them? Do I recall wanting the council of truth in place like they were? By your own logic simply because a person doesn't want something it makes it automatically wrong. The sentinels don't need your permission to do what they do. You are stating all the reasons why free will in the hands of someone who just doesn't understand how to use it is a dangerous thing.


    A) OmniTek is a dictatorship

    B) No, I'm not saying they need my permissions specifically, I'm saying they need the permission of a majority of the inhabitants of a city before they invade it.

    C) I'm not saying that simply because a person does want it means its wrong, I'm saying that if a majority of the people do not want it, it is wrong. Very different things. Silverstone has no right to force himself or his twisted ideals on the people of Tir if they do not want him to.

    D) You have no right to judge A) whether I understand how to use free will or B) Whether I have the right to use it. Everyone has the right to free will. You have no right to take that from them. Silverstone has no right to take that from the citizens of Tir. Many of them, including myself at one point, had neutral friends over often. He had no right to close the city. He had no right to take it over and enforce his will.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  14. #74
    He doesn't know what it means. He's another child..like the rest of them. They see Silverstone as an oppressive person because he represents order. They don't want order, the simply want a society based on anarchy where they are free to do as they wish...where scum run free and unchecked. They are only against silverstone because they feel they are "rebelling" against something..no other reason than that. All those who are against the sentinels were probably the type to run off in a mad fit when their parents didn't get them what they wanted, or told them they couldn't do a certain thing.
    "Did I tell you that you could speak?....then why are you still talking?."

  15. #75
    Originally posted by Cemetarygate


    So, what you're saying is that a dictatorship derives from ownership. That is, I don't own your bathroom, but by me comming in and conquering it without your permission makes me a crinimal, not a dictator.

    Silverstone, while being clan and having just as much right to call Tir home like you or I, steps into this city, forces out all non clan personal and guards without your permission makes him a dictator?

    So, if I start guarding tir from neutrals and Omni-Tek without your permission, I too would be a dictator?
    Silverstone can call Tir his home all he wants and he has a ight to. What he does not have the right to do is make decisions that affect the entire city without the majority of the city's consent. You conquering my bathroom is nothing like conquering a city. Yes, you would be a criminal and not a dictator because no one lives in my bathroom. My bathroom isn't a city.

    A) Tir does not need to be guarded from neutrals.

    B) If you were doing so under Silvstone's rule, you wouldn't be a dictator merely because you would be a mere thug in Silverstone's hire.

    C) You don't need my permission per se. You need the permission of the majority of Tir.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  16. #76
    Uwen, nevermind. We've reached the point of scemantics which really is a mut point in debating.

  17. #77
    Originally posted by Lexusstreak
    He doesn't know what it means. He's another child..like the rest of them. They see Silverstone as an oppressive person because he represents order. They don't want order, the simply want a society based on anarchy where they are free to do as they wish...where scum run free and unchecked. They are only against silverstone because they feel they are "rebelling" against something..no other reason than that. All those who are against the sentinels were probably the type to run off in a mad fit when their parents didn't get them what they wanted, or told them they couldn't do a certain thing.
    A) I'm not a child.

    B) "Scum run free and unchecked"? Rebelling just to rebel? Democracy somehow equating to anarchy in your delusional mind? Tell me again why you haven't joined OmniTek? Oh yeah, tahts right, because you want the power for yourself.

    C) I don't want anarchy. I want democracy. I don't want to do whatever I want, but I sure as hell don't want some punk with a band of thugs telling me what I can and can't do when he wasn't elected, nor was he invited or wanted in Tir.

    D) If Silverstone was elected in a free election, I would accept him and his laws because that is democracy. Until then, he is nothing more than a dictator.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  18. #78
    Originally posted by Cemetarygate
    Uwen, nevermind. We've reached the point of scemantics which really is a mut point in debating.
    Its looking like it.

    And I can't believe I got dragged into yet another discussion of why the Sentinels are bad. I told myself I wouldn't do it yet again, and then I did. Ah well, I'll stop that now.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  19. #79
    Only the strong deserve to rule. It's the most basic law of nature. Even if Silverstone went through the "proper channels" You'd still complain because that is all you people do, complain. You whine and gripe about freedoms, about peace and your own guild leader indiscrimanately hunts and kills Omnis In meetmedere. Hmm and yet, she preaches peace out the other side of her crooked pale mouth...Hypocrits. The whole lot of you..you need to figure out exactly where you stand, are you for peace or against it? I bet you don't even know..this is why someone else has to think for you.
    "Did I tell you that you could speak?....then why are you still talking?."

  20. #80
    You know what's funny? Lexusstreak sounds more like some of the more hardened Omni-tek employees I've met than a clanner.

    Perhaps you'd like to join Omni-tek, Lexus? I can assure you it is an organisation with a strong focus on order and leadership by the strongest.

    Emily, what did you mean by the Sentinels time draws nigh? What happened yesterday? I'm afraid I had the day off and spent most of my time relaxing in Rome park so I haven't been following the grid feed news.

    And yes, Cemetarygate. You should have welcomed the ICC. Not because they were going to take over Tir. Their presense was meant as a temporary deployment while the Clans found new leaders. You should have welcomed them because they assured you that Omni-tek could not touch Tir, because it would result in catasrophic backlashes from the ICC and it's member hyper corporations.
    Instead you threw that safety and stability right out the window. Or rather the Sentinels chose to throw it out the window. In any case the result is the same.
    If you truly worry that a few Omni-tek employees shouting Omni-tek slogans in Tir is going to convert clanners, then I would say that the Clans have bigger problems than a few ICC troops...

    (( Looks like I've created a real monster here ))

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