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Thread: The Sentinels -Leaders of the Clans? (long)

  1. #1

    Sentinels -Leaders of the Clans?

    Only a few days ago, I touched the subject of the Sentinels and their place as self proclaimed leaders of the Clans.

    Barely had I finished uploading my statement to the grid feed, before I was firmly told that the Sentinels are certainly not the leaders of the Clans.

    The trouble with the Clans as they exist at the moment is that they lack any kind of central body. The Council of Truth is no more, thus cutting off the only official link between the Clans and Omni-tek.
    The Sentinels are the new masters of Tir. The capital city of the Clans. This is a fact and cannot be disupted.
    They control the city uncontested. They control the governmental building. Simon Silverstone has proclaimed himself as being the liberator of Tir and the new leader of the Clans.

    These are all factual statements. So let's look at the broader perspective.

    The only recognised government in the Clan terrotories was the Council of Truth. In the Tir Accord they were recognised by Omni-tek as the ruling body. This didn't mean that all the clans recognised the council as such, however. Extremist clans, the Sentinels amongst them I believe, did not acknowledge the Council of Truth's authority. Indeed they thought of them as traitors for their collaboration with Omni-tek.

    The accusations of the Council of Truth supporting the terrorist Dust Brigade sent the council into hiding. It's members locations unknown and with speculation that it's leader, Radimann has died.

    Of course this meant the Tir Accord was no longer valid, since only one of the signing parties now existed. This of course, was where the ICC saw a pretense for sending its peacekeeping forces to Rubi-ka.

    However Tir was not under ICC occupation for long as we all know. The Sentinels took the city by force. Expelling the ICC peacekeepers.
    But was the operation a military coupe ((spelling, yes I know )) or simply an attack without political motives?

    The continued presense of Sentinel forces and the proclamations from Silvetstone cleary indicate that it was the former rather than the latter.

    The situation is made slightly fuzzy because of the fact that the Council of Truth was already gone. If the Council had still been there when the Sentinels invaded, the picture would have been much clearer. However, I find it hard for anyone to dispute that Silverstone deployed an army into the capital city and thereby installed himself as leader of the Clans.

    Now. Like the Council of Truth, not every clan recognises Simon Silverstone as the leader of the Clans. In fact, probably only a minority think of him as their leader. However, a military dictatorship is not subject to democratic rules, and as long as he remains in Tir, uncontested, he must be seen as the only real leader of the Clans.

    So where does that leave all the many clans, who do not share Silverstone's opinions? Well frankly, in the eyes of Omni-tek, it leaves them as people who might not exactly actively support the terrorist agenda of the Sentinels, but with their silent acceptance do nothing to topple this tyrant.

    Now I am not expecting anyone to mobilise an army and overthrow the Sentinels. But at least a public protest against them would go a long way in demonstrating the Clans opposition to the criminal ways of Silverstone. Perhaps a formation of a council to try and rally the clans that oppose the Sentinels?

    It should be apparent to everyone but the most naive that in the long run Omni-tek cannot accept the Clans being led by (with or without major support from the rest of the clans) a person such as Silverstone, who's highest goal in life is to bring Omni-tek to its knees by any means possible.

    Therefore, for the sake of Rubi-ka. For the sake of peace. Do not sit idly and let this criminal tarnish and ruin what little goodwill for the Clans that still exist in Omni-tek.
    Last edited by puddletown; Mar 17th, 2003 at 11:03:51.

  2. #2
    ...and then there's those who like to see clanners with brass balls running the show.



    ......the other alternative would be to make ME leader of the clans....




    .....But the nanomage females probably want to keep their clothes on instead







    .....and their shoes.
    Nanomage: The OTHER other white meat

  3. #3
    Heh, funny to see The Council of Truth linked to the Dust Brigaide when any sane person knows it was the Sentinels that created them.
    Just because I have a metalic jaw, doesn't mean I've ever been in a 007 movie.

  4. #4
    There have been many public protests against the Sentinels, and indeed this very grid is rife with the discontent of clans at the actions of the Simon Silvertsone and the Sentinels. Applauded efforts to ensure safe passage of neutrals and even Omni-Tek employees for meetings, primarily led by Nelida and Fixerben, have also been well-received. These are the overt measures.

    However, there are also additional steps being taken. Although those cannot be divulged at present, rest assured that the clans are not sitting idly by while the slaughter of innocents continues.

    I neither support Mr. Silverstone nor condone his actions, and am thankful that all he wanted was Tir.
    Emiliy Age
    Unit Leader, Foreign Relations
    Speak your heart, don't bite your tongue...

    Whisper's Edge | Gridmail | Engy's Workshop | Tir School of Engineering

    Bliqz on Shadowlands: "Gonna make it hard to decide who I can and cant eat."

  5. #5
    Tir WAS the capital of the clans. That doesn't mean it has to remain the capital. Until Silverstone and his thugs are thrown out, the "capital" can be moved to West Athen. All it needs is for a large number of the clans to band together, form a council and declare West Athen or Athen to be the capital in exile if you will.

    The reason I don't recommend Camelot as that belongs to Lord Galahad who while not being the thug that Silverstone is, has certain...ah... issues that makes Camelot a poor choice for a clan capital.
    Anastasia "Aniee" Cervenak
    Martial Artist

    Man is the only animal that blushes, or needs to. -------Mark Twain

  6. #6
    Gestava, Silverstone's exact words, "since the death of the Council of Truth, Omni-Tek and their agents have been circling in on what is left of the clans, like a pack of hyenas on a wounded animal. The Sentinels have decided that enough talking has been done! We will not sit idle and watch the Omnis sink their festering claws into the open woulds of our brother-organizations. No! We are taking action. From now on Tir is once again a free city, a safe haven for people who have the will and guts to make a stand against the oppression!"

    "Our brother-organizations," meaning fellow clanspersons, and, "for people who have the will and guts to make a stand against the oppression," meaning all those willing to call themselves, or align with, clan. Therefore, "the new masters of Tir" are anyone who is clan (which would exclude the ICC, neutrals and Omni-Tek).

    You can speculate as much as you like about "if the Council had still been there when the Sentinels invaded" but the fact of the matter is the Sentinels removed the ICC, not the CoT. Additional fact, the Sentinels had not planned to invade Tir while under Cot and/or clan control. Thus, where you "find it hard for anyone to dispute that Silverstone deployed an army into the capital city and thereby installed himself as leader of the Clans" is disproven by the fact that your arguments are based on speculation rather than fact.

    I've asked time and time again to know where Silverstone keeps claiming he's ruler of all clan people, because you, among others, keep making this unsubstantiated claim. Please, if you have this prove, then bring forth this documentation. The only facts I've been shown to date is Silverstone and his people are protecting Tir from outsiders, and they will not stop protecting Tir until an even stronger clan force is willing to stand in Tir and protect us from outsiders.

    Considering you're Omni, I see your motives for wanting the people to rally against the clans strongest protector.

  7. #7
    I find it ironic that you refer to the sentinels as "the clans strongest protector", Cemetarygate.
    The Sentinels occupation of Tir is the worst threat to Omni-tek/Clan relations since the discovery of Council of Truth involvement with th Dust Brigade.
    The continued presense of these terrorists is a red cloth being waved in front of Omni-tek. I can assure you that whatever sense of security these criminals provide to visiting it is false.

    I will concede that Silverstone has never officially declared himself to be the leader of the Clans. However, I do believe the circumstancial evidence very strongly suggests that that is his ambition. From installing an "administrator" of Tir, the notorious Fisk, to the creation of a heavily armed base in Wailing Wastes, the Sentinels are expanding their powerbase.

    To Aniee, I applaud your idea. I am sure Omni-tek would be happy to negotiate with a clan council free of terrorists, if it could gather sufficient backing.

  8. #8
    Gestava, you know that I have a measure of respect for you, beyond that which Omni-Tek employees usually receive (their frequent attempts to kill me or arrest me predispose me against them - you have tried neither). However, in this case you have utterly failed to grasp the reality of the situation.

    It seems that you think that Omni-Tek threats and aggression towards the clans can force the clans to institute change in Tir. On the contrary, all that Omni-Tek aggression will achieve is the further entrenchment of the Sentinels in a position of power. To paraphrase what you seem to be saying, "Get rid of them or face serious consequences" will not lead to the deposing of the Sentinels, indeed the serious consequences will drive more clanspeople to the embrace of the sentinels. For it will justify the words of Silverstone, lending them a truth that currently they do not have.

    I find your attitude to be endemic of the lack of understanding that Omni-Tek employees have for clan motivation. It is the freedom to rule ourselves that we strive for, and the idea that because Omni-Tek doesn't like the government that we have does not give it the right to step in and attempt regime change.

    Personally, I despise the Sentinels and all that they stand for, and will continue to work in small and big ways to change this. But i am a clanswoman and that is my right. You are not. You have no say, nor jurisdiction in the north. Should you choose to ignore that fact, and bring troops onto clan lands, then I will fight side by side with the Sentinels to remove you and yours from our territory. Then, once we have beaten you back to your own lands, I will continue to search for a way to remove the psychopath Silverstone from power.

    In short, if we, the clans, want your assistance we will ask for it. Until we do, any steps you take to assist us, will have exactly the reverse effect.

    Ailish
    Isobel "Ailish" Nottoris
    Thinker, Do-er, Warrior Poet

  9. #9
    Originally posted by Ailish

    It seems that you think that Omni-Tek threats and aggression towards the clans can force the clans to institute change in Tir.
    It is no threat. It is a matter of fact. The Sentinels constitute a threat to Omni-tek security. How else do you expect us to react? We have watched the currently singlemost dangerous entity to us take control of Tir. The seat of power in the north.
    How long do you expect Omni-tek to sit idly while it watches its enemies consolidate and expand their position?


    It is the freedom to rule ourselves that we strive for, and the idea that because Omni-Tek doesn't like the government that we have does not give it the right to step in and attempt regime change.
    So you do recognise the Sentinels as the current government of the Clans?


    Personally, I despise the Sentinels and all that they stand for, and will continue to work in small and big ways to change this. But i am a clanswoman and that is my right. You are not. You have no say, nor jurisdiction in the north.
    No jurisdiction? Just what Jurisdiction do you think you have in the north? The only official acknowledgement of clan territories is in the Tir Accord and that document is no longer valid.
    You should be grateful Omni-tek did not choose to simply reclaim the north, as is well within its rights.

    Furthermore, need I remind you that even in the defunct Tir Accord, Omni-tek was allowed to send in troops into the north to deal with clanners who committed crimes against the corporation. The Sentinels fall well into this category, I would say.

    In short, if we, the clans, want your assistance we will ask for it. Until we do, any steps you take to assist us, will have exactly the reverse effect.

    Ailish
    By the time some clanners swallow their petty homegrown "We can take care of everything ourselves"-pride it might be too late.

    Do not be so hasty to judge Omni-tek, Ailish. They have no desire for war. Not because of high morality. I am not that naive. But War is economically straining and it will impact the notum production.
    A peaceful solution is preferred. But you can only stick your head in the ground and ignore facts for so long. In the face of a threat against the whole of Omni-tek RK, we will react.
    Omni-tek will take Tir and remove the Sentinels by force.

    And if it comes to that, I will be in the first line.

    In the true liberation of Tir.

    -Gestava Drake

  10. #10
    Originally posted by Gestava

    It is no threat. It is a matter of fact. The Sentinels constitute a threat to Omni-tek security. How else do you expect us to react? We have watched the currently singlemost dangerous entity to us take control of Tir. The seat of power in the north.
    How long do you expect Omni-tek to sit idly while it watches its enemies consolidate and expand their position?
    A couple of things about this. First, as much as I hate to have to defend the Sentinels, what proof do you have that they are a threat? You've named them terrorists, but as yet I have seen no proof for that assertion. I would like to see some, as it would actually make the discrediting of them an awful lot easier. And, please, don't point at Anti-OT rhetoric as proof. If that bore any semblance to reality then you'd have clans in control of Rome, by now.

    Secondly, your question about how long OT should wait... well, that is I guess for the OT security services to decide. I am merely making you aware of the result of any action by Omni-Tek against Tir.


    So you do recognise the Sentinels as the current government of the Clans?
    Rubi-ka is a land of Real Politik. I recognise the Sentinels as the nearest that we have to any formalised government, as much as I might despise that state of affairs. Seeing as the CoT were hounded out by Omni-Pol (who consistently harass and assault all clanners no matter their political stance), I think that Omni-Tek must take some share in the responsibility for the Sentinels current position.


    No jurisdiction? Just what Jurisdiction do you think you have in the north? The only official acknowledgement of clan territories is in the Tir Accord and that document is no longer valid.
    You should be grateful Omni-tek did not choose to simply reclaim the north, as is well within its rights.
    Certainly, we have no official jurisdiction. Not that is recognised by Omni-Tek at least. But come tramping into the north with your slayers and your juggernauts and see what happens. How long do you think that your ICC lease will remain if you decide to begin a Rubi-ka war on the basis of what the Sentinels might do.


    Furthermore, need I remind you that even in the defunct Tir Accord, Omni-tek was allowed to send in troops into the north to deal with clanners who committed crimes against the corporation. The Sentinels fall well into this category, I would say.
    I'm well aware of this. And, as you well know, I was at Sabalum. I saw the consequences of that action. And we both know that it took ICC intervention and an Omni-Tek withdrawal to resolve that situation. I also remember what happened when you tried to send troops into West Athen. Do you think that the reaction would be any better this time?


    By the time some clanners swallow their petty homegrown "We can take care of everything ourselves"-pride it might be too late.
    And by the time that Omni-tek swallow their intergalactic "You are only here because of our sufferance" arrogance it might also be too late. I don't see either happening anytime soon.

    Do not be so hasty to judge Omni-tek, Ailish. They have no desire for war. Not because of high morality. I am not that naive. But War is economically straining and it will impact the notum production.
    Hasty? Hasty! Have you forgotten who sat at a table with you in Sabalum, Gestava, after our CoT sanctioned and OT cleared force was attacked with unwarranted aggression? Has your memory blanked the unprovoked attack upon me whilst I was in Omni-HQ under your so-called protection? Talk to your own police force about their reasons for the attack upon myself and one of my friends whilst we were in Neutral territory. My opinion and understanding of Omni-tek is forged from a number of sharp unpleasant encounters with your pet psychopaths, and the unbelievable arrogance of your department heads. There's nothing hasty about it. And I, unlike the majority of my counterparts, still believe in working towards peaceful resolution.

    Ahh, and you missed one other reason why Omni-tek don't want war. They might lose. Certainly, in the long run, it would result in an OT victory if they called up hundreds of thousands of troops from Omni-Prime. But of course, they can't do that, because as soon as they move troops from anywhere else, SBC will make a move on the weakened OT holdings. So, in any war, you might lose. It is possible. Undoubtedly, though, this planet - my home - would be the biggest loser.


    A peaceful solution is preferred. But you can only stick your head in the ground and ignore facts for so long. In the face of a threat against the whole of Omni-tek RK, we will react.
    Omni-tek will take Tir and remove the Sentinels by force.
    I don't think that anyone is sticking their heads in the sand (it's grainy and tastes bad). Certainly, I don't think that I am ignoring any facts. Bring force to Tir, and you'll open a whole can of Eremites. One that I don't think that you can afford to open.


    And if it comes to that, I will be in the first line.
    If it comes to that, I'll be facing you. And unlike you, who are only fighting for pay, I'll be fighting for my homeland.


    In the true liberation of Tir.
    I think that there are many out there that would dispute that. I'm one of them.

    Ailish.
    Isobel "Ailish" Nottoris
    Thinker, Do-er, Warrior Poet

  11. #11
    Not this topic again...

    1. The Sentinels, in THIS clanners eyes, are nothing but thugs that have taken over a city without ANY authority from the majority of the Clans. They are little different than what happened in NLC when Warr's thugs walked in and took over. Many of us clanners have gone to Tir and gunned the thugs down in the streets trying to rid ourselves of them before they spread to other of our fair cities...they seem to reclaim quickly however.

    2. Please, let's not have the pot calling the kettle black with your claims we have no central government. For all your 'central government' does to police the actions of your own clans it might as well not exist either. You all are as lawless as the clans are.

    Of course we've been over all of this before though...

  12. #12
    Originally posted by Nelida
    Not this topic again...

    Of course we've been over all of this before though...
    Exactly my thoughts which is why I refuse to argue this damn argument again. I'm not going to explain, yet again, why you are wrong Gestava and why the Sentinels are not the clan's government. We shouldn't have to do so over and over again.

    Then again, I could just go copy entire statements from previous discussions.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  13. #13
    Then provide me with a difinative answer.

    If OT is to even enterain the thought of negotiations, Who should we open lines of communication to?

    Silverstone and his Sents are the only real power in the clans as of now...
    Bliqz, Agent, Omni, Atlantean, "Iron Chef of Rubi-Ka"
    God is a bullet.

    ((The IC only RP forum is back. Bliqz is an Omni Extremist, and his posts IN THAT FORUM reflect that attitude. I can be reached by PM if you feel I have personaly offended you, and I will be happy to change/temper my post. Thank you, and have fun!))

  14. #14
    Originally posted by Bliqz
    Then provide me with a difinative answer.


    I have before.

    If OT is to even enterain the thought of negotiations, Who should we open lines of communication to?

    Silverstone and his Sents are the only real power in the clans as of now...
    Talk to me tomorrow so I can prepare yet another answer.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  15. #15
    Gestava, you said the Sentinels reign uncontested. I have contested them for months, as many others have. We are trying to get the Sentinels removed, but its not as easy as running in with a large military force and taking over for us. The fact is that, Yes, Silverstone has declared himself leader of the Clans and instated a military dictatorship basically. But this is not why the Clans were formed. The Clans were formed to bring democracy to Rubi-Ka. Silverstone fights for himself, and his personal gain. Not for the freedom of the people. So in my eyes, Silverstone is not a Clanner. He does not fight for the goals of our Forefathers. He does not work for democracy. Anyone that doesnt fight for democracy is not a Clanner.

    The Clan Purpose as stated in the Timeline
    The clans seize control of four notum mines and announce their plans for a democratic Rubi-Ka; run by the people, for the people.
    That is what the Clans are supposed to fight for. That is what I fight for.

    Long live Freedom! Long live the Fighters! and Long live the Clans!

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  16. #16
    Originally posted by Fixerben
    That is what the Clans are supposed to fight for. That is what I fight for.

    Long live Freedom! Long live the Fighters! and Long live the Clans!
    Civil rights is apparently not one of your concerns given your constant disregard for stated facts and your continious slandering of another human being.

  17. #17
    Originally posted by Cemetarygate


    Civil rights is apparently not one of your concerns given your constant disregard for stated facts and your continious slandering of another human being.
    You are seriously beginning to concern me. Can you still not see that Silverstone has caused this war? That he perpetrates acts of inhumane behavior? I am all for Civil Rights. But when someone shoots anyone that isnt Clan that walks into what is supposed to be the Capitol of Freedom. Something is wrong. When a Neutral person cant walk freely into a town that was once the Greatest symbol of Freedom, Something is wrong.

    I am not slandering any one. I state only facts.

    Silverstone stole plans for Towers. He sells the towers to Clanners. Omni destroy Clan towers, and Clan buys more towers. If Silverstone didnt supplied the towers we would have no war.

    No lies, no deception, no misinformation. Silverstone has caused death and destruction. In the name of what? Profit. He makes money on the tower sales while Clanners kill and die.

    Plain and simple, Silverstone wants us to fight for Notum. For Money, For Profit. He wants us to fight for the same reasons we wanted to fight Omni-Tek. Omni-Tek was all about profit, and that was what we rebelled against. Silverstone is all about Profit, and that is what I will rebel against.

    No Slander. Statement of facts. Facts that can be proven. Irrefutably.
    Last edited by Fixerben; Mar 19th, 2003 at 03:49:22.

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  18. #18
    And I thought ICC deregulated Mining..

    Hrrmmm.. guess I was misinformed..
    ~*~ Nanoprincess ~*~
    Katelin Cyani Kerans

  19. #19
    No Cyani, despite the insinuations, you are correct.

    Oh, and for those wanting to see a discussion of the info Ben edited into his post, it can be found here.
    Emiliy Age
    Unit Leader, Foreign Relations
    Speak your heart, don't bite your tongue...

    Whisper's Edge | Gridmail | Engy's Workshop | Tir School of Engineering

    Bliqz on Shadowlands: "Gonna make it hard to decide who I can and cant eat."

  20. #20
    Yes the ICC deregulated mining. I am not disputing that. But the ICC did not give us the tools of war. The Sentinels did. If the ICC had done what the Sentinels did I would blame them for the war. Deregulation of mining is one thing. Stealing patented technology and using it for personal gain is another.

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

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