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Thread: Borealis Pact signed in the ICC

  1. #61
    Originally posted by Tifanyx

    I don't really care if everyone on Rubi-Ka was created,
    Correction, everyone but the Solitus were created. Solitus were around before RubiKa
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  2. #62
    Tifanyx, in conflict there is always acceptable losses. Each side of the conflict determines for themselves what is acceptable. You'll have to direct your question to Omni-Tek to see when they'll say enough is enough. As for the clans, I do not speak for all of them. You'll have to ask each clan person individually when enough is enough.

    Regardless of acceptable levels, you're still bassing your premiss on something that has not been substantiated. So, you should focus your efforts on proving that which has not been proven yet before you cause further panic.

  3. #63
    The notion that we are basing our beliefs on the unproven is blind ignorance or the wish to remain blind and ignorant. Now there are a few reasons one may wish to remain blind on this issue. Firstly, one may be reaping profits and not want them to hindered. Two, one may be fearful of acting for what is right because the odds of success are slim, so you stick your head in the sand and hope for the best. Three, you really are so maliable that you follow the corporate line without question because they would never steer you wrong.

    What surprises me even more is that everyone is missing the greatest opportunity on rubi-ka and for the Galaxy. Notum is the lifeblood of the planet and Nanomages. But we can still use it on planet. So what would happen if to gain the benifits of notum technology you had to come to Rubi-Ka? Economic boom, massive improvements to Terraforming. Even Omni-Tek would be able to reap profits if they were acting as a company under the watchful eye of a democratically elected, constitutionally based government of Rubi-Ka. Manufacturing processes that need Notum would mean factories built here, not on some far off planet. The profits from our bountiful planet would stay here! as it is we are a back water resource planet. once the well dries up Rubi-Ka will be a dustbowl. But if we ensure the well never runs dry, we develop our ecosystem. We build towns and governments based on peace and prosperity there is a future for everyone. EVERY ONE WINS!!!
    Aazamon General of the Nanomage Liberation Front

    28973 The first Homo Nano is born in an Omni-Tek laboratory. The inclusion of trace notum into the DNA sequencing of Nano foetuses means that this breed is able to live only on Rubi-Ka.

    Until all are free!

    We are recruiting

    The Nanomage Liberation Front

  4. #64
    Originally posted by Aazamon
    EVERY ONE WINS!!!
    No, everyone loses. OmniTek exports notum for a profit. The galactic demand for notum is exorbitant. Even if OmniTek wanted to cut the profit it gained from notum, the other corporations would jump on RubiKa like Wasteprowlers on a wounded Reet. And the ICC would condone it. And, against the might of all the other corporations, we would lose. The notum would flow faster with new companies taking over the planet. OmniTek would be crippled. Just another supercorporation. And the rest of the planet would be enslaved once more, this time under a different corporate yoke. No, no one wins with this and everyone loses.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  5. #65
    Omni-Tek is losing their lease soon, they need to make a change to ensure access to notum somehow. Nanomages are losing their future, we need to make a change to ensure access to notum. Clans are faced with a planet that is dying and need to make a change to ensure they have a home to live on. The Galaxy be damned! If they want even an iota of the benifits of notum they are gonna have to come to Rubi-Ka, and NOT ONE GRAM SHALL LEAVE THE PLANET!

    Honestly I have my doubts sometimes that my people do have a future. It saddens me to no end actually and you will find me meditating on it at length in the hills around borealis. You see we have no choice to fight no matter the odds. I hope you understand that at least.
    Last edited by Aazamon; Mar 4th, 2003 at 22:54:29.
    Aazamon General of the Nanomage Liberation Front

    28973 The first Homo Nano is born in an Omni-Tek laboratory. The inclusion of trace notum into the DNA sequencing of Nano foetuses means that this breed is able to live only on Rubi-Ka.

    Until all are free!

    We are recruiting

    The Nanomage Liberation Front

  6. #66
    Originally posted by Aazamon
    . The Galaxy be damned!
    Hah! I don't care how determined you are, you will NEVER win with an attitude like that. The galaxy will NOT be damned. They will damn you and all your brethren. The galaxy will not allow the notum supply to stop they will go to war with you to ensure that and they will win. That, coupled with OmniTek trying to ensure their profits and the clans trying to ensure they are not controlled by another corporation, ensures that you will not succeed.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  7. #67
    Uwen why are you so hostile, I am really trying to show how all sides have an opportunity to benifit. You want democratic rule for Rubi-Ka right? If a legitimate government rules Rubi-Ka, their goals will be to ensure a healthy rubi-ka forever. It will be appearant that if we maintain this frontier economics that we are only hurting ourselves. As a single resource extraction planet our economy is extremely weak. Omni-Tek's businesses are far larger than Rubi-Ka and notum exploitation. The galaxy did fine before Notum was found and exploited. All I am trying to do is show how we can all work together for a future for us ALL.
    Aazamon General of the Nanomage Liberation Front

    28973 The first Homo Nano is born in an Omni-Tek laboratory. The inclusion of trace notum into the DNA sequencing of Nano foetuses means that this breed is able to live only on Rubi-Ka.

    Until all are free!

    We are recruiting

    The Nanomage Liberation Front

  8. #68
    Aazamon, the fact we don't believe you doesn't make us blind and ignorant. If we followed you without questioning your data, then that would make us blind and ignorant. You're confusing the two.

    Or do you really take us for fools who will drop everything and follow you based on your words alone? I don't know you. Your word means nothing to me. Prove yourself and I may consider following in your steps.

  9. #69
    Originally posted by Aazamon
    Uwen why are you so hostile, I am really trying to show how all sides have an opportunity to benifit. You want democratic rule for Rubi-Ka right? If a legitimate government rules Rubi-Ka, their goals will be to ensure a healthy rubi-ka forever. It will be appearant that if we maintain this frontier economics that we are only hurting ourselves. As a single resource extraction planet our economy is extremely weak. Omni-Tek's businesses are far larger than Rubi-Ka and notum exploitation. The galaxy did fine before Notum was found and exploited. All I am trying to do is show how we can all work together for a future for us ALL.
    I am not being hostile, I am being pragmatic. At first, I supported this. It seemed like it could nothing but good. I know that a single resource economy is bad, I've said that before, in this discussion even I believe. Yes, we will need to ensure a healthy RubiKa. A reduction of notum mining perhaps. Yes, the galaxy did just fine before they had notum, but a stim addict does just fine before he takes stims. The galaxy is a notum addict now and it will have its notum and no one will stand in its way. OmniTek's businesses are bigger than notum, but notum is what gives them their real power. Notum is what makes OmniTek better than "Just another hypercorporation". If I could stop all notum mining and ensure the safety of RubiKa at once, I would do it. But RubiKa will not be safe if we deny the galaxy its notum. What you don't understand is that if you try to stop the notum flow, other corporations will take over the entire planet with the ICC's permission and notum will flow freely throughout the galaxy. OmniTek tries to control the flow of notum and make it so it will last. It would be stupid of them to export as much as possible because it would lose value. They want to keep their drug pricey. If you do this, the galaxy will invade and the notum will be gone faster. You need to think ahead! The notum will be gone faster and the nanomages will die out! Not in 1000 or 2000 years like is possible now, but 20 or 30 years! They won't care about controlling the price, they'll just want the notum!
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  10. #70
    Cemetarygate all I'm asking you to do is read what we have shown you. And this is not just our own data, but data taken from other sources too. Here again are two sources of information that are not written by us or Desert Winds. We do have our own research and it is quite conclusive as well. Notum Mining does depreciate the supply of notum and effect the health of Nanomages and other life forms that have come to depend on it.

    http://www.anarchy-online.com/conte...notumforce.html

    http://www.anarchy-online.com/conte...ue4/subway.html
    Aazamon General of the Nanomage Liberation Front

    28973 The first Homo Nano is born in an Omni-Tek laboratory. The inclusion of trace notum into the DNA sequencing of Nano foetuses means that this breed is able to live only on Rubi-Ka.

    Until all are free!

    We are recruiting

    The Nanomage Liberation Front

  11. #71
    As a Nanomage, I can see Uwen's stance an understand why he is so firm in it. The scenario he details is the most likely to occur in the instance of a halt of Notum exportation from the Rubi-Ka star system due to instances of war, terrorism, or interdiction.

    As an ancient 20th century fiction writer once wrote of a rare resource found on only one planet: "the ****e [read: notum] must flow".

    It would be a disservice to logic not to put aside extreme feelings and rationally accept this. We currently live with the reality of Omni-Tek settled and mining to the south, as well as the more profit minded clans mining in the northern territories with the rare Neutral org's towers. As it is, we have a status quo of a sorts that in a sense of territory and mining rights, I am willing to live with, assuming the clans can finally pull some form of stable government together.

    As much as I disagree with Omni-Tek practices, there is also the reality that nothing on this planet IS natural and they did provide any chance for there to be life on this planet. Fighting for an ecology that the planet itself has sought to reject is a fallacious standpoint. Topping that off by the claim that the planet is a living thing... truly preposterous.

    As to the 'plight' of the nanomage, I feel it is exagerrated. The only ethically correct thing to do in this instance is to cease creation of nanomage children when studies and forecasts begin to indicate a truly diminished notum supply on this planet. Allow them to grow as normal solitus children into adults. This, of course, being centuries in the future most likely, regardless of how many 'Chicken Littles' declare the sky is falling.
    Nicholas "Maxilon" Markarian
    Executive of 'The Concillium'
    Bureaucrat
    Clan Union Representative
    'Order is not oppression. Benevolent government requires a level of moral soundness and ethical fortitude that if not found should lead to the immediate dissolution, through armed struggle if needed, of said government.'

  12. #72
    Uwen I know what you are saying, but what is it that we have proposed that is impossible? Why not get some corporations on the side of the Democratically elected government of Rubi-Ka. Allow them to set up industry here. Use those revenues from taxation to bolster the terraforming processes. Ensure that any industry we bring is clean. Again Omni-Tek is not the only corppration in the galaxy, this is true. We can use this to our advantage. If Omni-Tek can't see that protecting Rubi-Ka can be in it's interest, maybe someone else will. But also maybe that will not happen either. Maybe we are all alone. Maybe the only people us Nanomages can count on are our own people. Sad if that's true. WE WILL FIGHT. WE WILL NOT DIE LYING DOWN.
    Aazamon General of the Nanomage Liberation Front

    28973 The first Homo Nano is born in an Omni-Tek laboratory. The inclusion of trace notum into the DNA sequencing of Nano foetuses means that this breed is able to live only on Rubi-Ka.

    Until all are free!

    We are recruiting

    The Nanomage Liberation Front

  13. #73
    Originally posted by Aazamon
    Uwen I know what you are saying, but what is it that we have proposed that is impossible? Why not get some corporations on the side of the Democratically elected government of Rubi-Ka. Allow them to set up industry here. Use those revenues from taxation to bolster the terraforming processes. Ensure that any industry we bring is clean. Again Omni-Tek is not the only corppration in the galaxy, this is true. We can use this to our advantage. If Omni-Tek can't see that protecting Rubi-Ka can be in it's interest, maybe someone else will. But also maybe that will not happen either. Maybe we are all alone. Maybe the only people us Nanomages can count on are our own people. Sad if that's true. WE WILL FIGHT. WE WILL NOT DIE LYING DOWN.
    That is a great idea, but one of those industries will have to be notum if we want to protect ourselves. Maxilon worded it perfectly, "The [notum] must flow". Even if we have 10 or 20 hypercorporations on our side (which I doubt we could get as many without notum) we would still have all the others banding together to ensure the notum. I'm sorry, but it will be impossible to stop the notum flow off RubiKa without destroying Rubika or all life in the galaxy.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  14. #74
    Aazamon, I have read them both twice now. They've read the same thing each time.

    http://www.anarchy-online.com/conte...notumforce.html - In short, this story basically states that people are being greedy over notum mining. This story does not support your claims.

    http://www.anarchy-online.com/conte...ue4/subway.html - In short, this story basically asks "what if." This story does not support your claims either. The problem with this story, you've taken the "what if" questions and stated them to be true. How? That's what I'm asking.

  15. #75
    It is possible to utilize notum on planet without depreciating the supply of notum. I am all for any idea or plan that will allow this in an environmentally sustainable way. Export of notum off planet is an abomonation.

    OOC: You refer to the Dune series and the line "the ****e must flow" but you forget the series had more to it than that one line. What of the Fremin? BTW IC my char doesn't have a clue what you are talkin about he never read that obscure ancient text.
    Aazamon General of the Nanomage Liberation Front

    28973 The first Homo Nano is born in an Omni-Tek laboratory. The inclusion of trace notum into the DNA sequencing of Nano foetuses means that this breed is able to live only on Rubi-Ka.

    Until all are free!

    We are recruiting

    The Nanomage Liberation Front

  16. #76
    I agree those two articles are just another source of evidence and backs up what we have been finding in our own research. Especially the work we have done at teh abandoned mine in azure lake. This large structure tapped out it's notum vein long ago and the notum supply in the area is dangerously low for Nanomages. Our own Queen suffered a major ilness and was nearly lost to us forever because of this. Let me ask you this, what benifit to us is there to make these things up? I would be more than extatic if Notum were unlimited in quantity. Of course I would! But sadly this isn't true. And another very obvious point. If notum were unlimited then WHY WOULD OMNI-TEK ABANDON THE MINE BECAUSE THE NOTUM RAN OUT!!!
    Aazamon General of the Nanomage Liberation Front

    28973 The first Homo Nano is born in an Omni-Tek laboratory. The inclusion of trace notum into the DNA sequencing of Nano foetuses means that this breed is able to live only on Rubi-Ka.

    Until all are free!

    We are recruiting

    The Nanomage Liberation Front

  17. #77
    Originally posted by Aazamon
    It is possible to utilize notum on planet without depreciating the supply of notum. I am all for any idea or plan that will allow this in an environmentally sustainable way. Export of notum off planet is an abomonation.

    OOC: You refer to the Dune series and the line "the ****e must flow" but you forget the series had more to it than that one line. What of the Fremin? BTW IC my char doesn't have a clue what you are talkin about he never read that obscure ancient text.
    What can't you understand? Notum will go off planet. We can't stop that. The galactic demand is simply too high.

    OOC: I have no idea what he's talking about IC either, but the line works for me. And yes, there was more from Dune, but we're using what we want to use.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  18. #78
    Originally posted by Aazamon
    WHY WOULD OMNI-TEK ABANDON THE MINE BECAUSE THE NOTUM RAN OUT!!!
    The mine could have not been cost effective, local area was not life supporting, local miners revolts, all sorts of things could have led OmniTek to abandon the mine before the notum ran out.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  19. #79
    "What can't you understand? Notum will go off planet. We can't stop that. The galactic demand is simply too high."

    You see you have the luxury of being able to live with that notion Uwen. As a solitus you and your children's future have nothing to lose but maybe some profits and such. But me and my people have everything to lose and we will not just stand idlely by and watch the genocide.
    Aazamon General of the Nanomage Liberation Front

    28973 The first Homo Nano is born in an Omni-Tek laboratory. The inclusion of trace notum into the DNA sequencing of Nano foetuses means that this breed is able to live only on Rubi-Ka.

    Until all are free!

    We are recruiting

    The Nanomage Liberation Front

  20. #80
    I agree with the theorum that if notum were to be left only on Rubi-Ka we would have an essentially limitless supply. Unfortunately, the political realities of the universe prevent that.

    Are we going to forget the attitudes of other corps throughout the universe such as the Sol Banking Corporation? Whose actions almost make Omni-Tek look saintly? You will gain no favor with them, except perhaps to bring harm to Omni-Tek, and then to betray your ideals at the first sign of a bank account's credit line.

    They brought interstellar war to Rubi-Ka for the sake of Notum. Do not be so naive as to think it would not be brought to us again if the clans, neutrals, or OT-RK attempted to halt the notum mining. The effects would be far more devestating than anything that notum mining could ever do.

    I have no desire to see my home of West Athen blown to rubble, or even the mighty spires of Rome toppled. Peace is what we needed, and a democratic society. With that, we need commerce, and Notum will provide the ICC a reason to allow a democratically elected government of Rubi-Ka to exist. This would be by allowing corporations and private organizations with recognized leases and permits to mine and sell to distributors (Omni-Tek, for instance, which I see no reason to force off planet after the lease ends) that could then be sold on the open galactic market.
    Nicholas "Maxilon" Markarian
    Executive of 'The Concillium'
    Bureaucrat
    Clan Union Representative
    'Order is not oppression. Benevolent government requires a level of moral soundness and ethical fortitude that if not found should lead to the immediate dissolution, through armed struggle if needed, of said government.'

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