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Thread: Borealis Pact signed in the ICC

  1. #41
    My bad on the sourcing...

    It was Bionitrous who posted in the old story forums about the abundance of notum. However... there is official Funcom info to back it up. In the Shadowlands section of the main page.

    http://www.anarchy-online.com/conten...owlands/story/

    Third paragraph down:
    Rubi-Ka proved different from other planets; blessed with enormous quantities of notum, the mysterious fuel for advanced nanotechnology, and the building blocks of scientific progress.
    Italics added

    Touche, and stuff.
    Taren "Jynne" Suitt, Level 216/16 Eternalist
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  2. #42
    ((enourmous quantities, but still essentially finite though. the paragraph further on about notum swirls is interesting, but still doesnt mention infinite notum. so the case stands that notum will run out as it is blasted off planet))
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  3. #43
    Originally posted by Dr Tiny
    ((enourmous quantities, but still essentially finite though. the paragraph further on about notum swirls is interesting, but still doesnt mention infinite notum. so the case stands that notum will run out as it is blasted off planet))
    ((perhaps, but not in the short timespan people are talking about here. And, I don't want to say anyone's RP is wrong, but I don't think nanomages would realise or feel the effects of notum depletion yet as there is still massive amounts of it. The environmentalist problem is there no matter how much notum is around, but the nanomage problem, while it supportable and an interesting view that I'm glad the NLF has taken up, wouldn't be so urgent a problem.))
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  4. #44
    ((OOC: ))

    Jynne, The third paragraph did state "enormous quantities", but for clarity I added the 4th paragraph..

    Rubi-Ka proved different from other planets; blessed with enormous quantities of notum, the mysterious fuel for advanced nanotechnology, and the building blocks of scientific progress.

    Omni-Tek cunningly acquired the mining rights to Rubi-Ka, and has greedily exploited the planet's supply of notum for over a thousand years. They rule the planet through a strict, corporate autocracy with limited allowance of personal freedom, and an affinity for swift and hard punishment for any resistance and dissent.
    Enormous quantities 1000 years ago. The quantities can't be so enormous now. Maybe Notum is a renewable source, that Tifanyx, Jynne, The NLF & Desert Winds all learn about with the discovery of the Shadowlands. Which hasn't happened yet IC.
    So as Savoy said the story from an IC perspective is plausible.))
    Last edited by Jekor; Mar 4th, 2003 at 06:07:21.

  5. #45
    Originally posted by Tifanyx
    ((OOC: ))

    Jynne, The third paragraph did state "enormous quantities", but for clarity I added the 4th paragraph..



    Enormous quantities 1000 years ago. The quantities can't be so enormous now. Maybe Notum is a renewable source, that Tifanyx, Jynne, The NLF & Desert Winds all learn about with the discovery of the Shadowlands. Which hasn't happened yet IC.
    So as Savoy said the story from an IC perspective is plausible.))
    ((First, there are enormous quantities of notum and 1000 years of mining is only going to dent that a little bit, at least from what I've come to understand. And even if we don't IC know about SL yet, nanomages "feeling" the effects of notum depletion wouldn't be plausible because there is the enormous amount of notum in SL, despite the fact that we don't know about it.))
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  6. #46
    Originally posted by Uwen


    ((perhaps, but not in the short timespan people are talking about here. And, I don't want to say anyone's RP is wrong, but I don't think nanomages would realise or feel the effects of notum depletion yet as there is still massive amounts of it. The environmentalist problem is there no matter how much notum is around, but the nanomage problem, while it supportable and an interesting view that I'm glad the NLF has taken up, wouldn't be so urgent a problem.))
    ((the current generation of nanomage may be fine, their children, and their children. But with a finite resource its still a time bomb, something unique to that species as without it they are extinct. And surely its best to fire off warnings early than before it is too late?
    Now if notum is infinite, and who knows with shadowlands. I dont have a clue IC or OOC as to how that will effect notum levels at all, it seems that notum comes from the shadowlands I think.
    Desert Winds are more concerned with the environmental impact of mining on the man made eco system on Rubi-Ka, we believe it will be destoryed as it is young and fragile. hence our stand, perhaps irrational, on mines and mining.))
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  7. #47
    Originally posted by Uwen


    ((First, there are enormous quantities of notum and 1000 years of mining is only going to dent that a little bit, at least from what I've come to understand. And even if we don't IC know about SL yet, nanomages "feeling" the effects of notum depletion wouldn't be plausible because there is the enormous amount of notum in SL, despite the fact that we don't know about it.))
    ((enourmous is a very qualitative word, yet still implies finite ammount, 1000 years may have used less than 0.00000000 and a lot more 0s 1% or as much as 99.whatever% of it up. obviously in a game we wont get a hard qualitiative number, alhtough i suspect tonnage of notum shipped could be calculated from funcom figures.))
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  8. #48
    Originally posted by Uwen


    ((First, there are enormous quantities of notum and 1000 years of mining is only going to dent that a little bit, at least from what I've come to understand. And even if we don't IC know about SL yet, nanomages "feeling" the effects of notum depletion wouldn't be plausible because there is the enormous amount of notum in SL, despite the fact that we don't know about it.))
    ((How big is "enormous" to you? The timeline shows that a million tons of Notum was shipped off in the first 25 years of mining! <circa 28739>. So that means in 29476 just before ICC deregulated mining, an estimated 30 million tons of Notum has been shipped off planet (737 years / 25 yrs per million = 29).

    I think the Nanomage should be feeling effects of this. Thats alot of notum shipped off for the there not to be "SOME" effects felt. Nanomages need Notum to survive, so the logical race to feel the effects first would be them.))

  9. #49
    Originally posted by Tifanyx


    ((How big is "enormous" to you? The timeline shows that a million tons of Notum was shipped off in the first 25 years of mining! <circa 28739>. So that means in 29476 just before ICC deregulated mining, an estimated 30 million tons of Notum has been shipped off planet (737 years / 25 yrs per million = 29).

    I think the Nanomage should be feeling effects of this. Thats alot of notum shipped off for the there not to be "SOME" effects felt. Nanomages need Notum to survive, so the logical race to feel the effects first would be them.))
    ((Ok, you are right, I do not know the amount of notum shipped off or how much notum a nanomage needs to feel healthy, despite shadowlands. I digress. But thats enough discussion on this, lets get this threda back on IC track ))
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  10. #50
    Life on the planet dying? Wasn't the planet void of life before humanoids arrived 28,702? In fact, humanoids have been terraforming the planet since 28,703 in order to sustain life.

    Any claims that the planet is dying are completly unsubstantiated, and I would encourage terraforming facilities to increase their security to keep these two terrorist organizations from taking any necessary steps to substantiate their claim.

    (( Offical word from Funcom, "Unlike Earth and the inner colonies, Rubi-Ka has a natural abundance of Notum, which means thats there's a limitless supply of nanobots! Use this to your advantage! Why break your back with manual labour when you have a billion tiny machines to do the job for you?" That statement taken from the original game manual. ))

  11. #51
    Further down the shadowlands backstory page...
    And from the bowels of the Shadowlands the precious notum swirls and spirals into a gigantic vortex in the sky, sucking with it anything not solidly ground to the earth.
    In other words... notum is constantly being released by the shadowlands somehow.

    I'm not trying to be a tart (well maybe I am) but the fact remains that all the official Funcom info basically points to Notum as being essentially infinite in amount.

    Also remember, as I've stated before... only around 1/4 of Rubi-Ka has been terraformed. The planet is much bigger than the game world we play in. And since a great deal of the game world isn't notum-mineable, and that the notum mines in the game world haven't been exhausted in the last 1000 years, it's likely that far less than 1/4 of the notum on the planet could possibly have been mined. Even if all the notum in the game world (ie, terraformed R-K) were mined out... that would only be, at most, approximately 1/4 of the total notum in the planet.
    Taren "Jynne" Suitt, Level 216/16 Eternalist
    Knight of Unity of the Rose - Check out our AO Tools!
    The Doctor Guide to: Notum Wars Martial Arts Perks! Nano Controller Units
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    Visit the Roses and check out the shops in our City, NE of ICC at 4500x1500 in Andromeda!

    Iron Law of Exploits: If it can be exploited, it will be exploited. However a rule is exploitable, the exploits become the rule.

  12. #52
    Originally posted by Cemetarygate
    Life on the planet dying? Wasn't the planet void of life before humanoids arrived 28,702? In fact, humanoids have been terraforming the planet since 28,703 in order to sustain life.
    Any claims that the planet is dying are completly unsubstantiated, and I would encourage terraforming facilities to increase their security to keep these two terrorist organizations from taking any necessary steps to substantiate their claim.
    That is correct, life on the planet is dying. The planet is dying. Just because the PLANET was void of life ON IT, does not mean the planet itself is not alive. If you slowly remove the lifeblood of any being, and don't replace it, the being will DIE!!

    But what you FAIL to see is this. Nanomage were CREATED on Rubi-Ka! We cannot survive anywhere else! Do you think Omni-Tek really cares what happens to us? If they did, they would not of created us to be dependent on Notum, but they DID. If you really think, it makes perfect sense. When the lease on Rubi-Ka runs out. Omni-Tek can leave, but we have to stay. Omni-Tek, the greedy, evil corporation can deplete the Notum supply here without any repercussions for them. So their Nanomage creations die, big deal! WELL, ITS A BIG DEAL TO US!! I will not stand by and allow this planet to DIE, because the company that created it does not have use for it anymore!

    Originally posted by Cemetarygate
    (( Offical word from Funcom, "Unlike Earth and the inner colonies, Rubi-Ka has a natural abundance of Notum, which means thats there's a limitless supply of nanobots! Use this to your advantage! Why break your back with manual labour when you have a billion tiny machines to do the job for you?" That statement taken from the original game manual. )) [/B]
    ((So I ask you, what does "natural abundance" mean to you? To me that clearly means finite! Over the course of 750 years on Rubi-Ka 30 million tons of Notum were removed. If the Notum supply is regenerative, then there is no issue here. Look up the word "Natural" in the
    Dictionary. Within the definition of "Natural" is the word "Unregenerate". Unregenerate supports our IC claim about the Notum supply..
    Its clear that we can go around & around on this issue, so I will stop my OOC discussion of this. I'll only respond IC from this point forward.. ))


    -Tifanyx

  13. #53
    Originally posted by Jynne
    Further down the shadowlands backstory page...In other words... notum is constantly being released by the shadowlands somehow.
    ((OOC:
    Alright, one last time OOC.. I couldn't resist this one.

    Jynne, I agree with you. However from an IC perspective the only Notum sources we as Nanomage can "feel" or are attune with is the parts from the terraformed areas of Rubi-Ka. Which is 1/4 of the land mass. I think we can agree that the Notum supply in the terraformed sections is running out. Do nanomages know that only 1/4th of the land is terraformed? They were created on Rubi-Ka, they have no outside knowledge. (Much like back in the days when people thought the earth was flat. People died never knowing the earth was in fact round.)

    This is all we know. When the gate or hole to the Shadowlands is opened, there is a good chance that the Nanomages IC perspective will change. I can say that my IC perspect will change.

    ))

    -Tifanyx

  14. #54
    Tifanyx, it's common knowledge that only a segment of the planet is terraformed. Nanomages are smart folks. I'm pretty sure they can read... and that anyone's basic education would have included the fact that there's a forcefield around the terraformed segment of Rubi-Ka and beyond the forcefield is an area called the Outzone, where Omni-Tek is running terraforming equipment and various experiments as they try to increase the size of terraformed Rubi-Ka.

    Of course peoples' IC perspectives will change when the Shadowlands opens. That's a given.

    But none of that changes that every possible IC storyline indication as provided by Funcom points to the fact that Notum is infinite. Heck, even the NT nano line "humidity extractor" operates on the principle that notum is so abundant it can be extracted from the very air. I think if HE buffs stopped working that would be the first indication of notum depletion, really.
    Taren "Jynne" Suitt, Level 216/16 Eternalist
    Knight of Unity of the Rose - Check out our AO Tools!
    The Doctor Guide to: Notum Wars Martial Arts Perks! Nano Controller Units
    The General Guide to: Auto-Combat General Perks

    Visit the Roses and check out the shops in our City, NE of ICC at 4500x1500 in Andromeda!

    Iron Law of Exploits: If it can be exploited, it will be exploited. However a rule is exploitable, the exploits become the rule.

  15. #55
    Originally posted by Jynne
    Tifanyx, it's common knowledge that only a segment of the planet is terraformed.

    But none of that changes that every possible IC storyline indication as provided by Funcom points to the fact that Notum is infinite.
    ((OOC: <yet again>

    Common knowledge to Solitus & Omni employees sure, I can go for that. But not everyone. When I started AO, I was armed with the OOC knowledge that there were boundaries but no one came out IC and told me that! Not all of the current players of AO have been here since the beginning. Had I known I must read the entire history of AO in order to play the game, I never would have started. I've been here for about 5 months and I haven't seen all these storylines youre referring to. In fact, at the most recent Dev chat, one of the lead guys said that the story is being stretched and the first MAJOR event in the story arc is the introduction of Shadowlands.

    All of the IC story lines that support infinite Notum (which I still haven't witnessed) can be written off as Omni-Tek propaganda. If Omni-Tek controls the planet, they control the news that gets out.

    If this is supposed to be a game where we can shape the story, why are we expected to rigidly follow the stuff FC officially releases as story content?

    I believe this is why there is no defined place that says Notum is infinite or finite. Its open for us to determine which way we want to RP it.

    ))

  16. #56
    Fron the desk of Major McCovery
    Leader of Desert Winds

    Rubi-Ka is a partially terraformed planet, that process was initiated by Omni-Tek about 800 years ago, as a conseqeunce the biosphere we live in is relativly very very very young and still developing, into this mix we throw extraction of notum and the various processes that are need to drill, refine and ship it off planet. Each process uses up various resources and/or releases toxins. We are in danger of poisoning our selves and causing that biosphere to collapse. I will not be poisoned and will fight to defend my home and myself.
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  17. #57
    Tifanyx, my comment is in regard to "Article 2: Effects of excessive mining," the claim that, "much of the planets flora and fauna is suffering, and even becoming extinct." Terraforming gave these the lifeblood that which you are so engrosed with protecting. In which case, you should be concerned with the terraforming facitlites to ensure they continue to provide the necessary life sustaining properties in which they provide.

    In case you are unaware, much of the life, which you seek to protect, on this planet was created in labratories. More can be created if the populations fall below acceptable levels.

    Finally, you should not assume what people know or don't know, and base your conclusions on fact, rather than your opinions. Thus, I will not reply to your other comments as they are based on opinions, not facts.

    (( I didn't write that myself, just thought I'd provide the information which explains, from Funcom, the amount of notum on the planet.

    But, to answer you question. Natural has several meanings. And of course, we'll all pick the definition that best supports our position. In which case, I would have said natural, meaning, "growing without human care." So, focusing on that word alone is pointless.

    Read the statement again, and notice the word "limitless." I think that would best state what Funcom had intended for the notum supply. There is a "limitless" supply of nanobots because there is a "limitless" supply of notum. If the notum wasn't "limitless," then the nanobots would run out. ))

    edit: grammer
    Last edited by Cemetarygate; Mar 4th, 2003 at 17:38:47.

  18. #58
    I c you are still arguing whether there is enough notum left.

    That is besides the point. The moment this Pact starts to even look successful and the removal of mining towers begins in earnest, ICC will come down on us like a tonn of bricks with all the corporations behind it. You cannot just stop supplying the galactic economy with its most important commodity and hope for the best. The planet will be overrun by corporation troops.
    "Everything that one thinks about a lot becomes problematic" - Nietzsche
    Zorf
    Member of CAS
    Vito's Personal Atrox Punching Bag
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    Fiqh
    Member of CAS

  19. #59
    Originally posted by Fiqh
    I c you are still arguing whether there is enough notum left.

    That is besides the point. The moment this Pact starts to even look successful and the removal of mining towers begins in earnest, ICC will come down on us like a tonn of bricks with all the corporations behind it. You cannot just stop supplying the galactic economy with its most important commodity and hope for the best. The planet will be overrun by corporation troops.
    Thank you Fiqh. I thought through the sequence of events and thought that it would be good for the clans, but I did not factor the ICC or galactic demand in. In the short run, this could damage OmniTek, but in the long run it would only bring more corporate tyrants to Rubi Ka. Therefore, I will have to withdraw my support for this, at least until we have the means to repulse other corporate invaders. Until that point, research should be started into ways to create a portable, renewable notum or notum substitute source for the nanomages so they can leave the planet, if only for short periods of time. Failing this, the only viable option I see is the removal of notum from the DNA, thus eliminating the nanomage need for notum. Do not get angry at me, I am only trying to present viable options, as, sadly, the mining of notum will not be stopped. The combined weight of the galaxy will see to that.

    And Tif, I know a couple nanomages that do not care about the notum supply. They are loyalist Omni employees. The argument one them gave me was that, if the nanomage are trapped on this planet for eternity, there is no reason to wish the race to continue. He told me that he would rather see the race extinct than have them enslaved on this planet "only looking up to the stars, never venturing to them". He said that he is OmniTek's creation and they can do what they will with him. They provide for him and his family and if they see fit to destroy him, that is their decision. He said that everyone dies, all races eventually become extinct and the time frame in which they do is the only difference. He closed with saying that if the notum supply does indeed run out, than it will be far after his lifetime and will not affect him.

    I do not agree with my friend, but I wanted to present another nanomages point of view that was a very different one than I expected from him.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

  20. #60
    Originally posted by Cemetarygate
    In case you are unaware, much of the life, which you seek to protect, on this planet was created in labratories. More can be created if the populations fall below acceptable levels.
    More can be created when population falls below ACCEPTABLE levels? Well what is acceptable then? I don't want to die before I'm old and gray. If this keeps up, there won't be a Rubi-Ka left for me or you to live on. I don't really care if everyone on Rubi-Ka was created, Atrox, Solitus & Opifex CAN leave. Nanomage are stuck here. We cannot survive without NOTUM. You can. EVERYONE ELSE CAN! Not Us. If I can have definitive PROOF, that the Notum supply will NOT run out, and the planet will NOT DIE, I will be satisfied that my NANOMAGE Brothers & Sisters will be safe. All I've seen to support claims of the Notum supply is just Omni-Tek propaganda! If word got out to the ICC that the Notum supply was indeed short, Omni-Tek stock prices would fall. So of course, OTRK will always show that the Notum supply is not low.


    ((OOC: I'm tired of posting IC & OOC in the same message. I understand all your points, and Jynnes and everyone elses OOC points. But the more I do it, I bring IC thoughs OOC and vice versa, so from this point on its just IC for me. There is a method to my IC madness, its just not apparent yet.. ))

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