Why not bring back FAs and lower MW?

[________MazinKaiserX]

FAs were only the really good pistols in the game and I as a engie would love to use them as would many others, why not bring em back? Can even have them as find only which would make them valuable. Also the multi ranged and melee on weapons is insane, a Q84 nano charged stun glove req. just 366 in 1Hblunt, but req. 704 multi wield? Its not possible to multi wield em, it may be low on some weapons, and pistols, but those do terrible dmg. They need to be fixed, and FAs really need to be brought back, so what if they were popular? There are more powerful things now that people use

[mrpres1dent]

Okay --

Do you not see the obvious game balancing issues that would RE-occur if pistols were made much more powerful? They are nerfed right now for a reason -- so that Engineers, NT's, and other casting classes, cannot do DOUBLE damage.

Here's what I mean --

Adventurers -- our only viable weapons route where we can actually spend IP wisely is Pistols. Pistol and Flingshot are GREEN to us. Adventurers have no other ways to defend themselves except for the weapons they wield. No roots, no buffs, no pets, nothing -- just heals and weapons that do terrible damage, BECAUSE of the nerfing that occurred so that Engineers and NT's could not be "uber".

If pistols were returned to the way they were, then you would essentially be an Adventurer, with a powerful gun (or two..) AND a pet with thousands of hitpoints that hits just as hard as your guns. Conclusion: You'd do as much damage as an enforcer, IF NOT MORE.

This cannot happen.

Pistols *MUST* stay the way they are for the masses. For classes such as Adventurers who cannot really afford to invest in melee weapons since the melee-associated skills (Dimach, Brawl, Heavy Weapons, etc) are DARK BLUE, profession-specific weapons need to be introduced. In this particular example, many different types of Pistols that do "pre-nerfed" damage dealing should be introduced into the game. Those pistols should have an "Adventurer" requirement on them, so that only Adventurers could use them. This would give the power back to classes that were nerfed inadvertently because other classes with DD, DoT, and Pet's were weilding pistols that did plenty of damage as well.

Hope this makes sense.

Personally, I don't think Pet classes should really be too concerned with how much damage YOUR weapons are doing -- you should be focusing on always getting a more powerful and stronger pet. Your pet is supposed to be your damage dealer, not you. Carry a pillow or something that buffs your nano skills, so that you can get a better pet SOONER.

But, alas, it is a RPG, and you are free to play your character as you wish. Why not get a nice Vektor like the rest of the Engies I see And don't piss and moan about Shotgun being a blue skill.. bah. I have to invest in blue skills so that I can use weapons that actually DO DAMAGE to defend myself BECAUSE pet classes got pistols nerfed for us.

(flojojojo|level 154 advent|rk2)

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by fl0w_
Okay --

Do you not see the obvious game balancing issues that would RE-occur if pistols were made much more powerful? They are nerfed right now for a reason -- so that Engineers, NT's, and other casting classes, cannot do DOUBLE damage.

Here's what I mean --

Adventurers -- our only viable weapons route where we can actually spend IP wisely is Pistols. Pistol and Flingshot are GREEN to us. Adventurers have no other ways to defend themselves except for the weapons they wield. No roots, no buffs, no pets, nothing -- just heals and weapons that do terrible damage, BECAUSE of the nerfing that occurred so that Engineers and NT's could not be "uber".

If pistols were returned to the way they were, then you would essentially be an Adventurer, with a powerful gun (or two..) AND a pet with thousands of hitpoints that hits just as hard as your guns. Conclusion: You'd do as much damage as an enforcer, IF NOT MORE.

This cannot happen.

Pistols *MUST* stay the way they are for the masses. For classes such as Adventurers who cannot really afford to invest in melee weapons since the melee-associated skills (Dimach, Brawl, Heavy Weapons, etc) are DARK BLUE, profession-specific weapons need to be introduced. In this particular example, many different types of Pistols that do "pre-nerfed" damage dealing should be introduced into the game. Those pistols should have an "Adventurer" requirement on them, so that only Adventurers could use them. This would give the power back to classes that were nerfed inadvertently because other classes with DD, DoT, and Pet's were weilding pistols that did plenty of damage as well.

Hope this makes sense.

Personally, I don't think Pet classes should really be too concerned with how much damage YOUR weapons are doing -- you should be focusing on always getting a more powerful and stronger pet. Your pet is supposed to be your damage dealer, not you. Carry a pillow or something that buffs your nano skills, so that you can get a better pet SOONER.

But, alas, it is a RPG, and you are free to play your character as you wish. Why not get a nice Vektor like the rest of the Engies I see And don't piss and moan about Shotgun being a blue skill.. bah. I have to invest in blue skills so that I can use weapons that actually DO DAMAGE to defend myself BECAUSE pet classes got pistols nerfed for us.

(flojojojo|level 154 advent|rk2)

By that same logic, an Engineer could use a Vektor Shotgun, Nova Flow, Sunburst, Rider Excecutioner or WHATEVER. And STILL do double damage as of this point in time. The problem is IP cost and people aren't willing to give that up.

I believe ALL pistols should be upped a bit. I also think you should be able to 2h a pistol so that it hits for more damage. All the pistol nerf did is make hundreds of USELESS weapons circulating right now. Honestly, not a single person in the game uses pistols except me, I still use my Solar powered one.

[mrpres1dent]

Right. I think I already said what you just said. Logic dictates that they can use any weapon they want. However, Engineers and casting classes have a CHEAPER Pistol skill. So, many of them leaned towards that. Funcom decided that this was no good (?), and nerfed pistols. What this did was made casting classes and those who were using pistols, convert to heavier weapons such as shotguns and assault rifles. What this did for Adventurers was completely nerf the class (or at least those who went the Pistol route). I am a pistol adventurer. I don't do terrible damage but I am in the process of converting to a different weapon.

All I'm saying is that I don't think Pistols (for the masses) should be touched. I think (like Funcom is doing now with the new weapons found in the Camelot dungeon) profession-specific weapons should be introduced -- namely, for Adventurers, high powered pistols and 1H Edged equipment.

No. We don't want to be uber. We just want to be competitive.

(flojojojo|level 154 advent|rk2)

[Szentasha]

I am a pistol weilding adventurer. And, yes, we suck. Good thing I'm a roleplayer or I'd have nothing to do. The minimum damage my pistol does is pathetic. I follow your logic .. many of the classes that can use pistols like docs and engineers are already more powerfull than adventurers. Well so you can't fix us because it will make them even more powerfull .. it makes sense but very bad for an underpowered class. And I can say, I've used FAs, and they aren't that powerfull.

The idea about adventurer specific pistols is not bad but its still very restrictive. There are easier solutions.. a self-only adventurer pistol buff could be added that also helps with multi-range because we all know the multi-range requirements of these weapons are out of control.

Or better yet .. why doesn't someone fix the whole minimum damage problem?!??!??!?

Oh and fix our speed buffs and damage shields too.

/slap

- Szentasha / Szentisha / Unity of the Rose.

[__________Mindswayer]

Originally posted by fl0w_
Okay --

Do you not see the obvious game balancing issues that would RE-occur if pistols were made much more powerful? They are nerfed right now for a reason -- so that Engineers, NT's, and other casting classes, cannot do DOUBLE damage.

You know not what you speak of.

First of all, shotguns are more powerfull and are cheaper to raise. 1 Dark Blue shotgun skill is cheaper than 1 light blue pistol skill, 1 dark blue Ranged Energy Skill, 1 Dark blue Fling skill, and 1 Dark Blue mulit range req.

Second of all high level Eng's, NT's etc. are weilding Gamma Beamers, Hammers, and Beams already. All these weapons weapons are cheaper and do more damage than ANY pistol worth dualing. Including Freedom Arms at higher levels.

[Portulis]

Pistols are decent weapons, and with proper selection and overequipping an Adv can solo 50% missions to at least level 110. As for bringing in more powerful pistols for other professions to use I think not. Adventurers can be viable with pistols because of their green multiwield skll, but any other class would do better with shotgun.

However, one can look at the vast assortment of pistols out there, and lots of them are awesome for buffing up purposes. The Galahads are great for NTs and crats, and maybe docs, so that pistol skill isn't wasted. That is what I'm using it for now.

I invested IP in shotgun for my crat, but I've found that the DD nanos do just fine along with my pet, so I think I'm gonna quit doing that for now, and just raise pistol so that I can use those buff pistols later. And a pistol looks less silly on your character that a pillow!!!

[_____________Paldorr]

Gotta agree with MazinKaiserX. Bring back FFA's. Heck, I've still got 4 or 5 of them, but higher level ones would be nice

[__________griemdaall]

I always figured the reason Funcom removed FAs was ubiquity. There for a while after release and during beta, EVERYONE was using FAs. I doubt that's what they had in mind. (I used to group with a soldier, engie, enforcer, crat, and agent who all used FAs right after release, lol.)

[Zharatziel]

hmm... makes me wonder since I have a 53 nt that is using 2 FFA's now.

sure they are only ql 56 and 58 but still there must be tons of them out there... but it seems that these are even more rare then grid armor.

anyways... no I don't think they should be brought back (to shops anyway) at least not unmodified since the ones im using have stats that look a bit like this:

attack rate: 1.0
recharge:1.0
dmg: 1-114 (240)

these numbers are taken from memory so don't take 'em too serious.

still it's quite impressive to be able to hit almost every second for somewhere in the neighbborhood of 50-200 at lvl 50 plus the odd nuke to fling off.
and no.. these are NOT for sale!

[__________Kaisersoze]

Hey... should do 50 mission difficulty until 110? No. Until 200. ANYONE should. But it isnt the case...

[__________Kaisersoze]

Man if they bring back FFA's... pistol wear only would be great, just so you can't... well you know

[____________Ejeckted]

dual-wielding does not = double damage

it depends on what weapons you're using
(same type or two different types) of course,
but on average you do about 1/3rd more.

[Oljalyn]

Why do some people believe that the FAs were so insane that they had to be removed from the game? Yes, they are very good up until lvl 80ish, but after that they aren't so great anymore. They are just pistols with mediocre damage and for most professions requires dark blue skills to raise. A level 50 soldier with a flashpoint/nova/man-portable laser will far outdamage any FA wielding soldier out there.

Shotguns requires one or two skills (if you use a Krutt or Vector, the most popular ones). Even though pistol is a light blue skill, it will be cheaper to raise shotgun only until you're high level and has ips to spare to up fling shot. The shotguns FAR outdamage pistols.

I'm still using pistols though since my main who is level 157 started when the Freedom Arms had not been removed. I was actually planning on using a shotgun, but since I have dark blue ranged init, the faster pistols although with less damage would serve me better. Boy was I wrong... I see MPs with Krutts doing massive damage even in PvP. Crats with Flashpoints doing alpha strikes that _hurt_. Now you're telling me that pistols should not be improved, when a pistol never ever can outdamage one of the aforementioned weapons? I just want a decent damage dealing weapon, not a 10k crit weapon firing each shot every 0.3 seconds.

We have a level 40ish NT twink in our guild who, while nuking, can release a flingshot, burst and full auto while he executes his nukes. Tell me how a pistol will ever compete with that ? Do you seriously think that if he held an FA in his hands, he would do better?

Yes, in the beginning of the game everyone and their mother were running around with FAs in their hands, but that is because pistols ARE good at lower levels. They're fast, do okay damage and there are several different damage types you can do with a pistol. When people got to higher levels they quickly understood that pistols were not the way to go until they could just run missions for exp and then it didn't matter what weapon they held in their hands. I remember at level 42 I told my boyfriend of a new weapon I'd seen in a store. It was called Nova Flow and was an assault rifle. He bought it, increased his skills to use it and has never touched pistols since.

I wish all the best for adventurers (I have a young adventurer too), but wishing that pistols should ONLY be viable for them is ridiculous. Then you will see nobody else but adventurers using pistols, and that would be boring and lame IMO.

[______________Nibiru]

I have to agree bring them back.FA,s were not uber by any means they were good low lvl weapons for anyone wishing to use pistols and thats about it.They were removed because people cried like babys not even knowing what they were talking about.You have to remember everyone was a Noob back then and had no clue what the hell they were talking about.The game was new and everyone wanted to be a John Woo clone running around with dual pistols.

In conclusion these pistols were never over powered they were just good pistols and popular thats about it.If they were still in the game i doubt you would see many people using them perhaps pet classes and nano techs and that about it.There were way better weapons out there when the game was released and there are better ones now.People were just clueless back then.

[SdKfz182]

I agree! Bring back the FA!

--
Kieltus

[___________Zeroshift]

SOLUTION:

1. Make mutli-ranged and ranged energy light blue for adventurer.

2. Bring back Freedom arms (NOT in stores, but in missions and loot drops).

With fling, ranged energy, pistol, and multi-ranged the only class that can viably use FA's past level 30-50 are adventurers.

Even back when FA's were in people complained about how weak they were past level 30 because they were a huge IP sink.

[_________haniblecter]

You say these things now, but look at the freaking stats that that one guy posted!

I dont care what your wielding, you cant stand up against someone doing 15-114(204) every .7 seconds, no creature cant, no boss can. They were taken out because they were overpowered and extremely cheap to DW.

Make some adv, only pistols or increase the DW of the original FA's.

[speardancer2]

You know, whether or not they specificly bring back the FA's, or introduce some better balanced version of it, pistol weilders need some help.

I have a 33 NT with a QL35 vektor, who's hitting on a regular basis for 90-120 damage, per hit.

My 54 Advent with QL59 and 60 pistols (forget the exact kind) is doing good to hit for 30-40 points a hit (more commonly I see 19-25 or so) with a good burst doing 150 or so. And I don't have the DD nano's my NT does !!!

The piece of the patch coming in, lowering the AC on the "human" mobs should help some.

Using pistols, we are NEVER going to match the damage numbers that a soldier with a Nova flow or one of these Uber weapons is going to do.

But as it stands now, we're doing a small fraction of that damage, and as you level up, it gets smaller, and smaller, while the mobs HP's get higher, and higher.....

Give us the pistols the Mobs have !!! I know that the green mobs hit me for 40-70 points per hit when they're using pistols, I want some of that !!!!

And definetely look at lowering the Multi-requirements for pistols as well. There are a few with reasonable req's, but some are rediculous, 2-3x the base pistol requirements for the weapon. Have someone go thru on a weapon-by-weapon basis, and readjust these. Not all of them need to be changed, but some are way out of whack. This is not a one-size-fits all solution, you can't just go thru and say "adjust all multi range requirements down 10%" or something like that, or else you'll swing the problem back the other way, and there will be some pistols (not many) who's multi-range req's are too low again.