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Thread: Soloing and Teaming (the conclusions)

  1. #41
    john = look up doc nano epsilon purge

  2. #42
    Gee thanks for the tip . Did you know that it doesn't work (bugged), is self only, and not available till like lvl150?


  3. #43

    but at least they tried.

    some day john, fixers will do something cool.

  4. #44

    Arrow Adventurers Suck... You should give'em something better than pistols and 1h edge weap

    ADVENTURERS need help. You must give'em something more... pistols and swords won't make a difference --treatment is not enough either. Advs are too weak. They are not tankers and they are not real doctors. They dont do enough damage and they don't have pets...


  5. #45
    This is from Tekkor over at Agentsector. For some reason he was unable to post to this thread:


    Great article. Just want to ask one thing from people here...dont start getting into the "Nah this class deserves changes before that one..." debate.

    Many professions need fixes.

    A few people are saying they dont think Agents need fixes. Your not up on agent events then. Here is just a quick list so you are aware:

    -Aimed Shot. Has been nerfed several times. Is hardest special gun attack to make work. Has longest recycle time along with FA. Has most drastic critical calculation of any special attack. i.e. 1-30 aimed shots you maybe get a critical.

    - Conceal. This is not just and agent issue as some misinformed whiner pointed out on page 2. If they make conceal changes it will benefit any profession that uses it. i.e. adventurers for instance. They cant just fix conceal for agents.

    Also realize this is like perhaps the main ability of agents (in addition to FP) and it does not work very well.

    - I think many people dont realize how many skills for agents do not work. Do you for instance know that Rifle is not even a green skill for us? Our only green weapon skill is Sharp Objects which are not implemented in game. Rifle is light blue and all other weapons dark blue.

    - On the subject of Green skills for you know that Perception, Sharp Objects, Sneak Attack, Concealment and Chemistry are our main green skills? Right this minute S.O. and Chemistry are not implemented. Perception and Sneak attack are worthless as admitted by Funcom and Concealment we all know about.

    So in effect none of our green skills work properly. Rifle and Aimed Shot are light blue.

    - False Profession has incredible penalties. Essentially all combat and healing NF's are useless to us. The execute delay is too great.

    We can only use MP pets (lower then a MP of same level which is fine) but we have been told those may get taken away soon.

    So all that leaves is buffs. These are nice but the penalties are we are stuck in profession for 30 minutes, we take huge Nano Intiative penalties and also Nano ability penalties. We also then cannot use any Agent NF's.

    It is very nice though to have the buffs. Without this skill agents would be nearly completely worthless.

    I could add more but that is getting off topic a bit. Funcom seems to be aware of many issues for everyone. This article is great at looking at things that need to be addressed for everyone.

    Let's not bicker and just support Funcom in the direction they are hopefully going now.


  6. #46

    Thumbs up Fantastic idea, absloutley fantastic!!

    The short-term-family-memory is making the family have some sort of "collective-hive-memory" which means that normal, non-aggressive monsters might become "attack on sight" if you slaughter their family too long.
    This in my opinion is one of the best ideas i've heard in a long time. But, i dont see why you added "This is not a faction system!", the faction system DOES work well in that 'other' game.
    Level 99 Engineer,

    Masteries Used : 0
    Infuses Used : 0
    Mochams Used : 0
    Beggars Ignored since 01/06/03 : 7

  7. #47
    Original article:
    > How much better can we make the Adventurers and MAs without infringing on your territory?

    Well, for MA's it is easy. We even have it on level 1. The self-only heal. This one needs representation beyond level 1, you should make one for lvl 50, lvl 100 and lvl 150 too. And to make it different, think of it as a type of heal where the ma totally concentrates on it, let it have a high attack and very low recharge. And of course let it be more efficient than the regular heal.

    As for other issues: The Fixer DOT obviously needs improvement.
    And the Adventurers already have one _great_ heal after the ma line stops, so I don't think their line needs improvement (although maybe the skill requirements for it could be lowered a tad). An adventurer with high nanoc-init can heal almost as good as a doc today.


  8. #48
    Great article. Took me a while to read all of it and let it all sink in between reading it and all of the phone calls here at work.

    We need more articles like that from Gaute.
    Marquis "Clearspirit" Pillot
    RK2 Omni Inter-Op

    Lorriane "Arosabir" Cratty
    Wanna-be merchant @ Harry's Outpost!

    "I was born in the dark but it wasn't last night..."

  9. #49

    Good to see you are taking the rational approach. Someone has to. Don't know if I really agree with the changes you suggested but it is a start. As for myself, Whine-O-ramma time.

    Go ahead call me a whiner. Shoot, I'll call myself a whiner. It is squeaky wheel time here folks.

    repost from AO-Basher

    I am so upset because Funcom, point blank, bold face lied to all the Fixers.

    Back in November of last year Funcom promised Fixers a “Super Duper” addition. I can’t find the actual post but on December 7 Cosmic posted

    I've checked with the developers and the Fixers are going to get some additions that help solidify their description and purpose (and I'm talking more than the "super deuper" thing). The Fixers will be Fixers.

    Since then we have gotten some new nanos and guns, but none of it really helped the Fixer profession. I won’t go into the reasons why here and that doesn’t matter because Funcom stated that these were not the big changes that were coming “soon” to the Fixer.

    Sometime after that, Fixers were promised that we were the next profession to be looked at. Then the 13.6 patch notes came out and still no Fixer improvements, yet it looked like other professions were getting improvements. Fixers got a little upset, which prompted this reply from Cosmik

    Sorry, let me clear up some things. First, if you haven't already done so, please read this post. In a nutshell, Fixers have more additions coming. They weren't pushed out of the way by Martial Artists or Adventurers. Those two professions are the next two to get additions/fixes as well as those still in the middle of getting additions/fixes (Fixer, Bureaucrat and Engineer). Fixer additions aren't being stopped to make way for other professions. We're just doing changes to more professions.

    Fixers have some additions coming up which should really address some of the problems you have all been stating. I hope to let you know of them as they come come closer and closer. For example, I heard a little reet say to me that there will be some new weapons which Fixers should love real soon. Did I say real? I meant real. REAL. How soon? You know, REAAALLL soon. Let me emphasise that, if it didn't get across...REAL soon. *wink*

    Fixers have some fantastic things coming up (yes, even that super duper addition I mentioned a while back). Some Funcom Fixers have a good smile on their face.

    Well we got some new guns in the 13.6 patch. There is still some debate about how useful they will be. They mostly seem to be a replacement for our maussers after they top out at LvL 200, but still nothing “super duper”.

    And now today, we get the statement that the Fixers are done with this round of improvements. What is worse is that we aren’t even on the horizon for more changes. The Fixer is a broken class right now. You can go to just about any other profession’s message board to hear how bad the Fixer sucks. The posts usually go something like this, “Man we are gimped, I can’t beat anyone in PvP except Fixers. I own them”

    How can Funcom move on?
    What in the world is this super duper thing?
    When will the Fixers get fixed like the MPs were fixed?

  10. #50


    Good stuff, for the most part. Its nice to see some real information from Funcom, for a change. One thing that did catch my eye, however, and sent a shiver down my spine:

    "Some boss AI scripts could become chain casters, chain healers etc. Note, these changes will happen ONLY to boss monsters, and not the meat and bread of normal playing."

    Ack! NO! The very fact that such a flag exists in the AI script AT ALL is a massive fubar. Funcom, twice this flag has turned around and bit your playerbase in the arse. The first instance was around 12.6, when the chaincasting uberhealers made thier appearance. You did acknolage that to be a 'bug', and fixed it. It's happned again with this patch, save that instead of casting defensivly, the mobs are chaining nukes like a quad .50 cal! Anyone who's done missions past 20 can attest to this. Now we find that this is NOT a bug, but rather a code-supported FEATURE of some aspects of the AI!

    Lose it. Find that line of code and delete it. Its unstable, it keeps popping up, and mobs are hard enough without some combat-drug glitch lurking in the code.

  11. #51
    Crin, the article was on grouping and crowd control effectiveness. I'm really disappointed that everyone has taken this thread and turned it into their own "my prof sucks for X reason etc" rant.

    Personally, I didn't read that Fixer changes were done. Did I miss something somewhere? I must have. I'll reread guates article.


  12. #52
    Hope you are right John. All I've asked for is some clarification.

    No, this is not a "my prof sucks for X reason etc" rant, this is a "We were next to be fixed, now we aren't even on the schedule" rant.

    However I can do a "my prof sucks for X reason etc" rant if need be. I've got a pretty high multi-rant skill
    Last edited by Crin; Feb 8th, 2002 at 22:51:21.

  13. #53
    Unfortuantely I missed the initial thread or I would have posted this to it. Isn't it obvious that having every profession be able to solo its way to 200 is going to make some professions better than others? Crats and Docs (group classes by flavor) should by their flavor be better in groups than Engies (solo class by flavor), but if they are also able to solo they are going to be stronger. This is because giving them the skills necessary to be able to solo and also giving them the skills in their flavor that lead to being a strong group class means you are giving them too much. Likewise making an Engie just as strong in groups as soloing isn't a good idea because then they would have too much. There is no reason someone need be able to solo all the way to 200. If they could, it would only be proper to make all groups be as useful in any other in a group. This is patently ridiculous as no Engie could ever be a Doc in a group. It is cool that you can solo in AO, but its far from necessary for every profession to be able to solo all the time. It seems like a totally unnecessary implementation that would lead to all kinds of class imbalancing.

    RK-2 145 Engie

  14. #54
    Gaute, some more feedback this time on a different topic.

    Im level 105 currently. I'm using Basic Policy Skim. There simply isn't enough IP to go around for those dark blue skills. I'm also "using" with the help of a large wrangle or MP buffs, Grid Armor MKII. This is a ql90 nano that we can't self cast until about level 150. This is just to show you where a lot of my IP has gone (matter creation). If I get an IP reset, the HoTs will probably go the way of the dodo simply because they're not effective and I'd would have had to gimp myself to have kept upgrading them.

    Fixer HoTs:

    Solo: These are an absolute MUST for solo'ing until a Fixer hits around level 80. After that they just dont help enough and you can't afford the IP into 3 dark blue skills. If I was to use normal armor (you can't say grid armor is fair for this example, the fact is 90% of the fixers who have it got it because of reuseable nanocrystal) After level 80, mob damage outscales the healing the HoT you can reasonably be expected to use does.

    Small Team: Great nano line for this. Since usually a small team with have a secondary healer, this is just cherry. Also a small team will not be able to (usually) fill everyones NCU. Just cast it on the tank and away you go.

    Full Team: Useless. Everyones NCU is carefull measured. No one leaves 20-30 NCU free for a 3 minute buff that heals a minute amount compared to the damage of mobs a full team will face.

    If you want to make Fixer HoTs viable past 80, here is how:

    #1 Halve the biotmet req. No one is using the top line hot anways that I'm aware of, so no one will really lose IP Reduce the other two requirements by 20% of their current. Fixers might actually be able to use a HoT remotely near their level.

    #2 HoTs are the only healing in the game that requires NCU. It is also the worst healing in the game. Reduce the NCU required for HoTs (Both doc and fixer) to 1 NCU. Make it work like a speech if you have to. Somehow make it not taunt everyone mob for a mile though


    #3 Increase the duration of HoTs. One of the biggest pains is that it slows a slows gameplay of a group down. If someone is going to make NCU room for your hot, it better last 10-15 minutes. Heck - even make it so that higher ql ones last longer. Like the first hot lasts 3 minutes, up to the best one lasting 15.

    Last edited by JohnMclain; Feb 8th, 2002 at 22:59:12.

  15. #55


    Ok, if this is going to be implemented: one place where this absolutely postively *has* to be tested is the backyard. There are enough, leets, reets, and beetles around to slaughter every single newbie if they achieve an attack on sight viewpoint towards those there. The roller rats are enough of a hassle at that level, no need to make everyone mizzerable with their first level character.

    Other than that, it will be a fantastic additon.
    Sometimes, old fixers die in Bitterness.

  16. #56

    Angry fix over equiping

    instead of adding all these great features (and they do sound great) you first fix the problems with over equiping by dealing with it at it's root, instead of just adding more HP to mobs.

    I'm a lvl 44 untwinked enforcer and the only over equiped item I have is my hammer as I refuse to put in the time to look for god knows who to help me equip items
    I rather just enjoy the game.

    unfortunatly you *again* gave mobs more now I'm finally forced to do something I don't even want....getting all kinds of outside help to overequip, simply because I can't even solo 2 light oranges at the time, hell..can't even take out one of the 2 all of the time without having to run and heal in between...

    on one hand you say you want to do something about the over equiping, on the other hand you keep pushing us more and more to do so..

    in other words, get the core balance straight before you start balancing each individual class...

    Madriel lvl44 Enforcer, Rubi-Ka 1

  17. #57
    Very interesting article some good, some bad, can't win them all.

    You mentioned about you wondered what adventurers etc were like in teams, and what there heals were like. I'm an NT (no surprise there) and I used to team a massive amount with a Adv. past tense I used to as he unfortunatly rerolled due to lost ip
    Anyhow, we used to be good as a team, not doing silly uber hard missions just 60% maybe's or 50%'s for nice easy xp and chats. His heals where a life saver, and I usually (as always for an NT) got the aggro so acted as a tank (hahaha)...the adv make an excellent combat doctor, with damage and heals.

    As for normal teaming, it seems an NT's roll is bait, as well as everyone and their pet leet wanting an extractor . We seem to make ourselves that bigger easier target for the mob so they won't go for the doc. We have the aggro, we have the damage...and it usually works. Thank david we have a doc to keep us up! Its a rarity that a mob will ignore me and go for the other members, and when they do its usually the poor doc (who has luckily got layers on which gives just enough time to pull the mob back). Its wierd our aggro though, I know we get alot due to having our agg/def on max, but we might not be anywhere near causing the most damage onto a target (over time that is as our single hits are high) but we still pull the aggro.

    Originally posted by by Gaute Godager
    the Nano-Technician? (There, I mentioned it
    Oh yeah, I keep forgetting that we've had the so called NT patch sheesh....months of waiting for it only to get something we should have had on day one to actually work is not a patch. I've even given up on the NT forum as its utterly a waste of time. We don't get a reply to our concerns, not even a little note saying you'll look at it. We're tired of it, and I know I just can't be bothered with it now.
    Major "Nyadach" Prabel
    Neutral and proud of it!

  18. #58


    Just a simple request to improve the game for everyone!

    Can you have the targeted text change to black on a pale background (clouds, sky) and go white in a dark area. Or something of your own design/method. I have to look on the ground to see what I have targeted at times.

    Thanks in advance

    Profession: Soldier
    Clan: Vanguard.

  19. #59
    Yea, I found it hilarious when you said "maybe the Nano-Technician? (There, I mentioned it ". You said that you rely on the Cummunity Reps to Represent us. How are they supposed to Represent the NT's when they never even respond to our posts, hell i doubt they even read them. The only thing they have done on the NT forums is give us a sticky thread were we can post help for newbie NT's.

    Heres my advice for allthe newbie NT's. If you did it for the nanos, be a MP. If you want to do DMG, be something else.

    I mean you said Maybe NT, Yea, You need to get to us. Your so called Fix for us, giving us a Uber Rare Shield that sucks and some gay warps doesnt help us any. Since you capped Nano range, we have no advantages over anyone. Our DD Nanos are great, ill admit it, But Im a lvl 86 NT using the highest nukes i can, And i am always out dmg by every other prof for my lvl, except maybe doctors. Pet calsses have there pets + there dmg, and people like agents and soldiers do more dmg than me all the time. Ill spend 10 secs casting a nuke that does 1800 max dmg, and ill hit for 1400, in that 10 seconds the agent beside me has already done 4k dmg without using any speacial, some for any other class that relys mainly on wepons.

    You finally fixed our stuns, and they were working great in both PvP and PvM. They needed there effects reduced in PvP, so you did that, and know once again they dont work.

    All the Deck Items that reduce nano cost, increase range, increase nano init are great, but they take the place of our NCU witch we need for HP and AC buffs, and other buffs. NT's probably have less NCU and HP than any other proffesion in the game. We have no trade skills, We can make implants, but why bother when a MP the same lvl can make implants 50lvl higher than you?

    Missions are a joke, Half the time im in a mission, ill see the mob on the other side of the door, ill target him, and try to nuke him and it says out of range. Even though the mob is shooting me, and im hitting him with my pillow because he is that close, i cant cast a nano because there is a open door in the way.

    NT's need to be seriously looked at. We have lots of things that are broken, and lots of things that need to be seriously improved.

    All your other Prof Fix patches since the NT one to me seemed llike good ones, they all fixed many bugs and and added new content. the NT one was a joke.

  20. #60

    This was a great article and full of good information BUT...

    based upon your example with B&E it seems that my Trader with 350 in B&E SHOULD be able to, eventually, open a chest in a 185 mission...but in fact she can NOT...EVER...after dozens of tries.

    So something is STILL not working right.

    My level 51 MA is very much looking forward to the MA loving...just ONE question...well two really;

    1. When?
    2. What?

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