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Thread: Envisioned - Bureaucrat Changes

  1. #61

    Tenk Stop...

    Posted by Tenk for Fixers and anyone else who will listen...

    "People stop playing fixers at higher levels, and switch to engineer, MP, NT or even crats... But funcom don't listen to our complaints, so they threw us a bone with no meat on: Summon ammo.. WOOHOO! JUST what we need......
    NOT!"


    No one quits playing any class to become a Crat....Crat is the most unforgiving class in the game in soo many ways..Count the crats you see in game at "high level" then count the fixers you see...Easy enuff to establish that there has got to be some method or reason for it....


    I won't ever get in a Fixer Post and tell you why Crats should get what you want or think you deserve....Please give us the courtesy of keeping the whining or complaining or dare I say Fixer help to your "Fixer" forums or threads....If you played a Crat or even met a Crat past lvl 100 then you would understand that we need fixing as much and probably more then the Fixer (and I judge that by many things not the least of which is that there are less the 10 post 80 lvl crats).

    I won't deny you any of your complaints or arguments to better your class with the exception of those you make at the expense of another(class) . So please go back to where it is you came from (Fixer Forum). Make good arguments there, I may bump your thread or, heaven forbid FC might read it....But this is not the place for your class envy. Which... imo is really sad because almost everyone understands that the Crats need extreme help...shame you can't see past your own issues to look around and see that although your glass may not be half full...It is not the only half empty one in AO
    Last edited by Dmv; Dec 1st, 2001 at 07:55:01.

  2. #62

    Re: Tenk Stop...

    Originally posted by Aristocrat
    Posted by Tenk for Fixers and anyone else who will listen...



    No one quits playing any class to become a Crat....Crat is the most unforgiving class in the game in soo many ways..Count the crats you see in game at "high level" then count the fixers you see...Easy enuff to establish that there has got to be some method or reason for it....

    Look at the future changes, and tell it wont be a desired profession? I for sure love the visions of it!


    I won't deny you any of your complaints or arguments to better your class with the exception of those you make at the expense of another(class) . So please go back to where it is you came from (Fixer Forum). Make good arguments there, I may bump your thread or, heaven forbid FC might read it....But this is not the place for your class envy. Which... imo is really sad because almost everyone understands that the Crats need extreme help...shame you can't see past your own issues to look around and see that although your glass may not be half full...It is not the only half empty one in AO
    I do apologize if this came out as envy, it for sure was not inteded. I DO envy the crats with its future changes, which will make it a strong profession. Yes, im happy for you, yes, i know you needed , but so do we fixers.. *sigh*..
    You might ask why i at all typed in criticism on the fixer *here*, but i guess it was to get some attention from FC (hopefully), and to get some support from another mistreated profession as the crat.
    I said it before: GO CRATS!
    Teknolord, Rubi-Ka 1 fixer.

  3. #63

    Exclamation Fixer...?

    The crat changes are great. Wonderful. Really really really good.

    But, um... where's the at least envisioned list of maybe thought of considered ideas of fixer changes? Everything Teknolord says is true, and more, and the reason we're getting more vocal, is that it's either that or give up on our characters or the game entirely, neither of which we want to do.

    There's presence of Funcom on this thread. Therefore, there will be presence of Fixers.

    -Nietya

  4. #64

    That is a shame Nietya

    Posted by Nietya

    "But, um... where's the at least envisioned list of maybe thought of considered ideas of fixer changes? Everything Teknolord says is true, and more, and the reason we're getting more vocal, is that it's either that or give up on our characters or the game entirely, neither of which we want to do. "

    There's presence of Funcom on this thread. Therefore, there will be presence of Fixers.



    Now I have to say I wholeheartedly support the Fixers getting a boost....

    But how can you be so selfish as to attempt to turn everythread where "there is a pressence of FC" into your own?


    Show some respect for others and I think you will find that you will gain more support and less disdain....

    I guess if I have to explain it the point is lost on you so I will stop trying

  5. #65

    NT Wishes

    It would be nice to see new stuff added to NTs I would love a NANO that would alow the NT to actually teleport to the coordinates of the target or friend similar to how ARKs/GMs do I mean the NT is the nano master of the game and it would be sweet to see them teleport...Since the NT is also one of the weakest classes (Low HP) some kind of area(team) shield would be nice. Like a way of protecting the whole team. Just like if a team is hunting in 0% gas area and they get attack by a whole team or a bunch of mobs they can protect the whole team for a short period of time, this would be the NTs a lot more usefull. the MPs can fly soldier have their shield even though not as good as before but still really awesome, engineers and metaphysicist have or will have up to 3 pets and the bureaucrats have pets too. the NTs range got cut so now we can't nuke stuff that far out and most of our good nukes are long casting.

    I have seen much new being said or done for NTs so I am not sure if FC forgot about us =).

    Would also love to see a shop that sells stuff over ql 125. I am not big on missions and hate to be force to do them in order to get stuff ql125+ or buy them from players that do missions and sell stuff at crazy prices since many of us don't have a quick way of making cash ehehe =).

    Another awesome thing would be a way of making xp other than opening lock chest/doors, making implants and hacking stuff. would be kewl to get xp for returning like an item to a machine or a person, an item that could be looted from a class of mob and people can buy this item to gain xp. Also for like bringing information or items from on part of the world to another from npc to npc or from missions machine to npc. The amount of xp could be lowered depending on the lvl of the person.

    Static dungeons are totaly kewl but it would be kewl if funcom would make like a castle where you don't have to zone to get there or to be there meaning right outside like what we call a camp but with different lvls and rooms.

    ----------------------
    LvL - 134 Soldier
    LvL - 44 NT
    ---------------------

  6. #66
    Great work funcom, I have long waited for something to actually happen to crats. And I am glad that you give them some love!

    I would like to give you guys (Funcom) some good pointers.

    1. We have Time&Space, we summon our pets from the home office. This skill can also be beneficial in other ways. We could summon reclaimed team members, transportation etc.

    2. The look of the pet never changes and it looks plain dull (to be kind). I'm not working with 3D programs anymore like LW, Maya or 3DStudio, but I bet if you gave your 3D object creator 4 days. I know we will be stunned at the improvement. Just looked at some of the GFX your 3D guys made in the "In Progress" section and if you gave my pet 10% of that love I know he/she would look great and there would be different versions of him/her as we progress in levels.
    And remember, we crats go with style, therefore I ask you to stay away from those awful creatures engineers calls pet and go for the smooth, sophisticated and lethal look. Ninja droid is an ok creation.

    3. Damage nanos. I'm not asking for more damage (even though I grouped with a Vector user who critted for 1.6k too damn often, ok I am asking for more damage And what about these enormous gaps? I mean how hard can it be to put a nano in the middle of the others?

    4. The charm nano line. I love teaming. Now when a group teams in AO you don't fight yellow or orange monsters. You go for the red ones. And this charm thing is only good for looks right now (- "Gee, look at that cool spider attacking the shades") but eventually the team mates get annoyed since it's not doing anything useful (- "Get that big thing out of here, we don't see sh-t"). So we need to be able to charm the monsters we are fighting in a group.

    5. I'm very curious about a tradeskill for crats. I think some of the tradeskills today is too complex and require too much work to actually be rewarding and thus used. Implementing something complex and seldom used by players can not be rewarding for you guys (Funcom). So whatever it is, - Keep it simple.

    6. I'm here (again) in Rubi-Ka and I really appreciate what you have done while I've been gone. Keep up the good work and you will be rewarded by your community!

    Sincerely,
    Lord Scythe

  7. #67

    Talking

    Originally posted by LordScythe
    ... And remember, we crats go with style, therefore I ask you to stay away from those awful creatures engineers calls pet and go for the smooth, sophisticated and lethal look. Ninja droid is an ok creation.
    ...
    pffff weaklings ....

    ooc: j/k of course ehehehe but fazun's an engineer in-game ,)
    tradeskillz ?

  8. #68
    *bump*

    Any word on the other envisioned stuff except the useless things that were implemented so far?
    I like the longer duration of our droids now, although i think that our droids should be permanent as the engineer ones.
    I cant see why my droid is deactivating after 2 hours (which is waaay too short at my lvl of 111 now).
    They are summoned to us from the home office and if he just teleports himself back, why should i have to teleport him to me anyway? A droid of the 30.000th year should be able to recharge his energy from something.
    Or give us a nano to refresh the lifetime of our droid.
    It can maybe need 1500 nano or somesuch, but a lot lower reqs than the droid needs to be casted, so its actually useful without the need to get uber buffs for the droid again.
    Thanks.

    PS: Dont forget to tell us what the other envisioned things will be, since you have had a lot of time now to figure it out.
    Director "Meister"
    President, Omni-Pol
    Level 207 Omni-Tek Dictator
    Meister's Reinforced Suit - Bureaucrats may be gimps, but at least we know how to look good.
    Account Created: 2001-06-27 23:07:32

  9. #69
    Ok finaly

    Expression "every team needs bureaucrat" will be true.

    I started as bureaucrat and i hated my Adventurer but i had no choice noone didn't want to team up with me and i coudlnt be anything becouse of my low damage.

    But now i am starting Bureaucrat again.

    This game changed a lot in last mounth even before it was screwing up no one saw a future in this game. I even bought DAoC (never had chance really to play that one)

    However after 12.8 path i see that this company can do a really good job (like "The Longest Journey" the best game i ever played and i hope that you can make part two). Now i believe in funcom again.

    Make evrething you planed work and more players will come back and at least happy to play this game.

  10. #70
    Originally posted by Julia Pomka
    Ok finaly

    Expression "every team needs bureaucrat" will be true.
    I think "bureaucrats won't be useless to teams" is closer. And that is only after you have snared those impossible to find speeches.

    If they get rid of the charm nerf so that we can charm while teaming, then every team will need a bureaucrat.

    Scorus

  11. #71
    Hmm one more time FC seem to throw us a carrot and then let us shake our tail so we stop to kick some butt...

    Why don't we have any update of our issues and fix ? Since this big ENVISIONED FC's post, all we got is 2 very rare and very bugged nanos...

    Please Cosmik, Cz and the others, what about our trade skill ? What about all the stuff that u talked about and make us dream ? The ADV seems to be your next priority, will your start to fix them before u re done with us ?

    I really hope that you will inform us about the evolution of the developer's work.
    Persoue agent 205

  12. #72

    Some thoughts

    I'm also glad that we crats get some attention especially if it makes team play better. Right now (Lv66) I do mostly solo missions due to the problems when teaming. A couple of points I'd like to make.

    1. Fix the Speech so that it doesn't spam/interfere. I've no idea how good the bonuses are but the current form of the nano makes it too annoying and disrupting to use.

    2. Add a 'Peer pressure' factor to the Psyche check. I've found the Psyche check limit to be very well balanced when it comes to solo missions. In teaming however, as several have stated, we need to be able to affect the more dangerous opponents a group usually challenges. So add a Morale or Peer pressure bonus on the Psyche check. The larger the team the bigger the bonus.

    3. Using the droid in teams outdoors are usually not a problem. But in a team mission it often gets a weird area aggro effect. Where enemies come from all directions several rooms away. I see from the attack messages that they instantly targets my droid, and thus conclude that he is the cause. The crat should be a 'crowd controller' not a 'crowd gatherer' . My team members usually request that I don't activate my droid in missions...

    4. When implementing new things for us (or any profession for that matter) try not to copy abilities from other professions. This only dilutes the game. I read some arguments for us getting summon team member nanos (like engineer) because we summon our droid. Using this reasoning, since all professions have the same nanoskills, you quickly come to a point where everybody 'should' be able to do anything based on nano. Just look in this thread at all the fixers. I think the main reason they're upset is that you took away their uniqueness. I know I felt similar when traders got charms (even though those were as useful as a paper hammer in a rain storm). Don't go further down this path, please.

    5. For the love Chronos give us some writing materials in game!! Every MMORPG I've played (read: UO and AC) had books and papers. It's a great asset in events and roleplaying and should of course not be restricted to crats only. If crats gets any special writing abilities as the suggested making OT/Clan registration forms I'm all for it, though. Preferably I would like a fairly advanced memo pad where I could store info about players and locations, sort of an extension of the reference menu that exists now. Using the /memo playername you could send messages to a player that don't get lost in chat spam. Integrate this with organization functions and player made missions and it'll be great..
    FunnyFace
    Running with Notum scissors

  13. #73
    It's a shame that this has degenerated into a 'fixer vs crat' flamewar.. I almost joined in myself. Why can't people learn to leave other prof threads alone, no matter hwo gimped you think your prof is? You don't see crats on the fixer boards saying "screw you fixers, crats need help now!! FC why aren't you helping crats, don't read these fixers posts read the crat boards!! here is my crat top 10 post in the envisioned fixer changes post because I'm sure you'll look for that here..." do you? Heh.

  14. #74
    BUMP !

    FN seems to have forgot us one more time.. We got promises but nothing is coming ...
    Persoue agent 205

  15. #75
    Heh, the fact that the person who promised these changes and started this forum isn't even on the forums anymore is a pretty good indication about the status of the changes.

    Scorus

  16. #76
    I've never played a fixer, so I won't even comment on their plight.

    As for the bureaucrat:
    (Warning: involves some class envy here)

    They have a light blue NP skill...why? Nano-bot programming is meant to be a technical profession, correct? One that has an affinity for things computer and cybernetic. So why does the meta-physicist have a green skill here?

    Rationale: MP's are the mystics of AO allegedly so where did their affinity for NP come from? Of all professions in game, it seems that MP's should have the least ability with NP, at least from a logical viewpoint.

    Someone who is attuned with his/her "God-side" wouldn't have much of a need for an earthly and very technical skill like nano-bot programming.

    A bureaucrat, it could be argued, does. Yes, crats are masters of everything mind and influence. They also summon robotic pets, like the engineer. Not manifestations, but metallic robotic pets. That alludes to some, if not a lot, of technical skill in computers and cybernetics in general.
    Our skill set doesn't reflect this.

    Request: reduce the skill for nano-bot programming from light blue to at least aqua.

    Non-general psy/int buffing.
    Currently non-existant except Odin's Eye.
    Rationale: bureaucrats are movers and shakers of the political world and are able to influence the actions of those around them.
    Therefore, I'd like to see the introduction of a nano line that allows us to buff +15-20 psy/int, akin to the doctor's Iron Circle for str/sta. It is the bureaucrat that has this power over others and would add to the lustre of the profession and well as to its worth.

    Voila, instant worth to the bureaucrat profession and a viable way to earn a non-combative living.

    We can't wrangle for tips, we can't effectively NP for tips, we can't IC or headcracker for tips, we can't feline grace, treatment buff, buff run speed, riot control, challenger, etc, for tips.

    We aren't alone in this lack of non-combative income options and I'm sure other professions can add their voice. Each profession should have at least one skill that can be used to derive an income or proceeds to upgrading their equipment.
    Give bureaucrats the non-general +20 psy/int buff, please. We are the logical profession for this type of nano.

    My above comments re: meta-physicists aren't intended as a denigration of their profession. Keep in mind that you, the player, didn't invent the profession, Funcom did, so don't take it personally.

  17. #77

    Agreed with above

    I have long thought that to influence Psy and Int (i.e. Buff) the Crat is the obvious profeesion for this...For many of the same reasons as stated above.


    Unfortunately we have a small and not so vocal community and as such we will not recieve something from FC that truly adds to our Value in financial buffing or really in team desires
    __________________________________
    REMEMBER !! ....... do nothing, that's how things get done around here.

  18. #78
    Hey, we are vocal!!!
    *bump*
    Director "Meister"
    President, Omni-Pol
    Level 207 Omni-Tek Dictator
    Meister's Reinforced Suit - Bureaucrats may be gimps, but at least we know how to look good.
    Account Created: 2001-06-27 23:07:32

  19. #79
    dum dim dum ....
    Persoue agent 205

  20. #80

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