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I'm sure a lot of you have read my news article by now and I want to know who is with me? Do you believe the Tir Accord is in need or changing and stronger enforcement? or perhaps we should ditch it all together and have OT reclaim what was once theirs? With the Sentinals suddenly becoming active, we must get the Tir Accord enforced or demolish it. The safety of OT and the well being of Rubi-Ka depends on this feeble document!
I think you need to go read the Tir Accord again. Have you walked through Newland lately? It's a Clan designated area by the Tir Accord yet the population is almost completely Omni. Have you stepped outside the gates? There are Omni there almost 24/7 attacking the neutral security forces without provocation. Just the unofficial presence of any Omni employee in this area is technically against the Accord, not to mention their constant aggressive behavior.
The Tir Accord lost most of it's merit when Omni decided to ignore most of what they committed too. The fact that they let us "have" any land at all is only so they can make it look like they're upholding their end of the bargain.
As for Omni-Pol security in Clan areas, we have our own security forces, thanks very much. You may remember seeing them from the walls of Omni-1 a few years back when they fought their way to within reach of your capital city.
guess u need to go read the storyline then. that was a long time ago, a very long time ago that the tritor clans did that.
As for newland city and the neutrals... according to the Tir accord, then every neutral are still employees by Omni-Tek. The ICC says so. :D
And aggrassive behavior? its u clanners that raids 2h0 all the time, u atack our guards inside our cities, your DB blew p the people in Omni-1.
they also killed over 1400 people in black october almost 10 years ago.
Luxxan, the only part I agree with you on is Newland being Clan controlled yet neutrals are omni-tek employees. it;s just contradictory. The rest is almost completely fake, based on propaganda and irrational opinion. Hey, some OT employees may kill Newland guards, but don't forget that the clannies also do it. They kill guards in their own land. And besides, since the Tir Accord is evidential that neutrals are considerred Omni-Tek employees, then that would make any offense against the OT in clan controlled rule completely void. Now that I think about it, I can only wish that I was about 100 levels higher. I;d do what you stupid clannies do every day: go against the Tir Accord. Only this time, the contratidcory statements protect me. I would be just as legal as I would be illegal. You wouldn't be allowed to stop me without breaking the Tir Accord. You damn clannies need to get it through your rediculously thick little skulls that Omni-Tek does NOT want war and has given you land, freedom, and your own government for that reason. Stop living in the past or listening to propaganda from clans like the Sentinals.
It seems like the hardest concept for Omni to understand is that the clans and Omni are not the same. Just because a clansman does something does not mean it's ok for an Omni to do it. I personally have never set foot in 2ho. That doesn't mean clansmen don't go there everyday and violate the Tir Accord, it just demonstrates that the clans come in all shapes and sizes with an assortment of goals and beliefs. Omni -should- have only one set of rules. We're the free ones remember, you're the ones enslaved to your corporate masters.
As for Newland, Omni does not officially recognize "neutral" status. The clans, however, do. We, therefore, took one of "our" cities, Newland City, and designated it for use by the neutrals. Omni have no business being there.
And Arila, it wasn't very long ago at all. In fact, the battle I was referring to is what prompted the Tir Accord in the first place; Omni-1 was being threatened by Clan forces and Omni Prime refused to send more troops to Rubi-Ka. OT-RK agreed to the Tir Accord on condition of ceasefire. This was six years ago.
Omni-Tek is incredibly un-disciplined! Omni-Tek employees are often doing things that they're not supposed to or allowed to out in areas they shouldn't be in without a good excuse.
((OOC: I honestly believe the game should impose some restrictions on what Omni-Tek staff can do. As you said, Omni-Tek is the corporate oppressor, and the Clans are the 'freedom to arm bears' people.))
Other than that, Omni-Tek isn't in breach of the Tir Accord any more or less so than the Clans.
Part of the point of the Tir Accord was to recognise the authority of the Council of Truth. If you're a clanner and respect that authority then you're fine. If you don't, then you're not. Clans aren't a single organisation, true. But the Council of Truth is required to hand over criminals to Omni-Tek for justice. Any clan member who is visiting 2ho constantly should be hunted on both sides of the fence. They aren't, so obviously the Clans need some help from Omni-Tek in policing their own.
As for neutral status, Omni-Tek has always left the neutral communities on the whole alone. So there's lots of Omni-Tek people in Newland? So what? They're allowed to be there. There's often lots of Omni-Tek people in Borealis and Last Ditch as well, and last time I was in Harry's or 20k you couldn't drop a pin without hitting an Omni-Tek employee. There are even small neutral communities right on the doorstep of Omni-1 (the community around the Relax! bar is neutral) and maybe it's just me but I've never seen the guards getting shot in most of these places. The guards in Omni-1 Entertainment seem to come under more fire than the neutral guards in Harry's.
Newland *was* Clan. Now it's neutral. So sayeth the Tir Accord.
Well, there's no doubt the Accord has some apparently contradictory statements. Based on the fact that Omni-Tek doesn't officially acknowledge "neutral" status, I think the amendment making Newland City "neutral" is basically only for the Clans benefit.
Omni-Tek considers Newland City to be the CoT's responsibility, as per the Tir Accord ((http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=42523)) so then why is the place crawling with Omni who are illegally outside OT controled areas?
I do agree that the CoT should be working with Omni-Pol to find and prosecute unaffiliated clanners who break the Tir Accord, but unfortunately, Omni never deigns to ask for CoT assistance in any retaliatory efforts, which is required by the Tir Accord.
In the end, it comes down to the fact that in about 90% of cases, clanners breaking the Tir Accord are unaffiliated and should be considered criminals, while Omni breaking the Tir Accord are employees and obviously endorsed by the company, or they would be facing corporate trial, as per the Accord. You can say whatever you want about the motives of the hundreds of unaffiliated clans, but the fact that Omni-Tek consistently breaks the treaty it signed only a few years ago just shows how serious they are about any commitment to peace.
That link was a really great link to follow.
The point was made time and again already, if you read past the initial post (I know you have, Luxxan - that's just for the benefit of others following this).
Nyadach, Mister_Unknown and also a few Omni-Tek employees have spelled it all out very clearly:
For all intents and purposes both sides make a habit of bashing on the neutrals. In both cases better discipline is needed.
Omni-Tek doesn't condone the actions of these people. Ross made a point of asking the various leaders to keep their people on a tighter leash.
The CoA would seem to revel in bloodshed. More war! More death! Sounds like a real blast. kaBOOM.
So its interesting to hear that when things go badly it's Omni-Tek showing support for the neutral communities at least as often as the Clans?
I'll also point out that the CoT also signed that treaty. The treaty was signed, in fact, under the impression that CoT spoke for anyone who wasn't an Omni-Tek employee.
Well, CoA will see that one overturned. It'll be a truly glorious day: CoA will rally, march - maybe to the very gates of Omni-1 - leaving a trail of death and bloodshed in their wake, and maybe even take the planet.
Just think - that'd be like an open invitation to every other ICC vulture, not to mention probably ticking off Omni-Tek to boot.
The Council of Truth had the right idea before all this Dust Brigade stuff came to light - try *talking* to Omni-Tek and figure out a deal.
Who is committed to peace? Well, one thing is for sure: with the CoA wanting death and blood, and the evidence pointing to the CoT backing the Dust Brigade, it seems hardly fair to point the finger at OT and cry 'warmongers.'
Try taking a page from the neutral book and being willing to talk to Omni-Tek instead of shooting them just because they're there.
Quite true, Crazy, quite true... Clannies wanting war yet again, the CoT possibly in affiliation with the Dust Brigade, the neutrals seeking only to be left alone in the conflict, and Omni-Tek seeking peace on Rubi-Ka. It seems that OT truly are those opposed to violence. But, it is surprizing that OT employees could so openly attack neutrals and their guards when, according to the Tir Accord, they are considerred OT employees themselves! Things do need to change and for violators to be reported to Omni-Pol, both OT and clan affiliated. More needs to be done, more people need to be explained the rules and the truth of the matter, and more people need to think about what's in the best interest of Rubi-Ka rather than themselves.Quote:
Originally posted by Crazynotion
For all intents and purposes both sides make a habit of bashing on the neutrals. In both cases better discipline is needed.
Omni-Tek doesn't condone the actions of these people. Ross made a point of asking the various leaders to keep their people on a tighter leash.
The CoA would seem to revel in bloodshed. More war! More death! Sounds like a real blast. kaBOOM.
So its interesting to hear that when things go badly it's Omni-Tek showing support for the neutral communities at least as often as the Clans?
I'll also point out that the CoT also signed that treaty. The treaty was signed, in fact, under the impression that CoT spoke for anyone who wasn't an Omni-Tek employee.
Well, CoA will see that one overturned. It'll be a truly glorious day: CoA will rally, march - maybe to the very gates of Omni-1 - leaving a trail of death and bloodshed in their wake, and maybe even take the planet.
Just think - that'd be like an open invitation to every other ICC vulture, not to mention probably ticking off Omni-Tek to boot.
The Council of Truth had the right idea before all this Dust Brigade stuff came to light - try *talking* to Omni-Tek and figure out a deal.
Who is committed to peace? Well, one thing is for sure: with the CoA wanting death and blood, and the evidence pointing to the CoT backing the Dust Brigade, it seems hardly fair to point the finger at OT and cry 'warmongers.'
Try taking a page from the neutral book and being willing to talk to Omni-Tek instead of shooting them just because they're there.
Well, we did the Amnesty thing already. It was all fine and dandy, except that both sides ignored it when they felt like it. I tend to be harder on Omni-Tek about those sorts of things than I am on the clans because Omni-Tek has accountability. The clans, while assumably under the control of the CoT, can really do anything they want. Omni-Tek is supposed to have laws and regulations, but as we saw with the Radiman assassination attempt by Aberic, it's all lip service.
I find it funny that the clans become more and more radical everyday, while the neutrals take on what should be the clan role. Unfortunately, I'm not allowed to join the neutral "side" so I'm stuck with the warmongers. The CoA won't do anything but ruin our chances at peace. Sure, they'll succeed in discrediting the CoT, but then all we'll have is silly little squabbles and power-fights, with people taking turns stealing the spotlight.
There currently is not a wide-spread effort to form countering coaltions to the CoA, specifically one aimed at maintaining the CoT and it's credibility. We desperately need that before things get too far out of hand. And beyond that, we need to negotiate with the Neutral Coalition and find common ground. Being a member of the clans is about finding support and banding together whenever possible; contrary to what many clanners think, we can't just "wipe out OT and the stupid ICC" whenever we'd like to. You'd be amazed how many clanners think it's just a matter of deciding to fight, and then we'll automatically win.
The Clans cannot do whatever they want because they are under the control of the CoT. However, since the CoT doesn't do a thing about it, the clans, more or less, are free to do whatever they want because nothing is stopping them while OT is forced to follow their rules and regulations with no hope of counter attack. The Clans have just as much accountability as OT does and they are also the reason that war is still a threat to Rubi-Ka. You don't think there are a few employees who won't follow the law? They're called criminals, and in case you haven't noticed the clans are full of those people. The assassinator was punished, too, so at least OT has some power over their people, unlike the CoT.Quote:
Originally posted by Luxxan
Well, we did the Amnesty thing already. It was all fine and dandy, except that both sides ignored it when they felt like it. I tend to be harder on Omni-Tek about those sorts of things than I am on the clans because Omni-Tek has accountability. The clans, while assumably under the control of the CoT, can really do anything they want. Omni-Tek is supposed to have laws and regulations, but as we saw with the Radiman assassination attempt by Aberic, it's all lip service.
I can't agree with you more. I'm sure lots of people would like to join the neutrals for whatever reason. The CoA will bring about the downfall of the clans. But that's all in your hands. OT is only involved when they are forced into it through war. You clans brought your inevitable destruction upon yourself and OT doesn't have to do a single thing to contribute to it.Quote:
I find it funny that the clans become more and more radical everyday, while the neutrals take on what should be the clan role. Unfortunately, I'm not allowed to join the neutral "side" so I'm stuck with the warmongers. The CoA won't do anything but ruin our chances at peace. Sure, they'll succeed in discrediting the CoT, but then all we'll have is silly little squabbles and power-fights, with people taking turns stealing the spotlight.
Well, if you foolish radicals need leadership and someone to go against the CoA, be my guest. I don't see how a 4th title fixer will have much trouble getting their voice heard. And you're right, nowadays Clans are seen as warmongers and radicals bent on destroying something that only seeks peace with them. They used to be freedom fighters and seekers of justice, back when Omni-Tek took the role of the hostile side for their own economical gains. Now, the two sides are almost flipflopped, with OT only seeking peace and all the clans bent on world domination and to make names out of themselves. I doubt any of you will be able to back up your propaganda, lies, and rhetoric when you enter the battlefield. If you don't destroy yourselves first, Omni-Tek will when we finally enter the battlefield on your side of the planet.Quote:
There currently is not a wide-spread effort to form countering coaltions to the CoA, specifically one aimed at maintaining the CoT and it's credibility. We desperately need that before things get too far out of hand. And beyond that, we need to negotiate with the Neutral Coalition and find common ground. Being a member of the clans is about finding support and banding together whenever possible; contrary to what many clanners think, we can't just "wipe out OT and the stupid ICC" whenever we'd like to. You'd be amazed how many clanners think it's just a matter of deciding to fight, and then we'll automatically win.
There is no requirement to be subjected to CoT control. Some clans choose to accept their leadership, some do not. When they were first formed, many did, but now, many do not. The CoT is simply the only powerful group which was willing to deal with Omni-Tek in some method of peace.Quote:
Originally posted by Dannicus
The Clans cannot do whatever they want because they are under the control of the CoT.
Surprisingly...that's the only thing I have to reply to. The rest of your post I completely agree with.