That's a big problem with this whole "factional" organization with respect to Neutral
Where do you stand and where are you counted? Every Neutral for the most part is a peaceful citizen of Rubi-Ka and the Shadowlands just trying to eke out a life amongst the harsh environs that is this big ugly lug of a planet I call my own.
But, where do your philosophies about the political structures rest? In my field of view, what Neutral is to me is someone that wishes to conduct their lives and commerce in peace without dealing with the war that has gone on for far too long as it is.
But, the simple distinction that entails is anything but simple. Remember, Clan was created to combat Omni-Tek's deplorable treatment of mining workers and their subsequent brutal repression for protesting that same behaviour by the Corporation. Find yourself on one side of the fight or the other, and you got yclept with these monikers, Clan or Omni. Certainly and rightly so.
For those of you that didn't, you are all declared "Neutral" and by that, you are described as "not involving yourselves with the current political, economic and social conflict" currently being waged between Omni-Tek and the Clans.
That is hardly an apt description, as the Neutrals are truly the most dangerous faction of them all with respect to stability. We all know that some Neutral organizations on Rubi-Ka sometimes "favor" one side of the war, although they aren't "personally" involved. Or are they?
Neutrals tend to go where one side or the other congregates, and tends to fight along side Clan or Omni factions to obtain new equipment, nanoprograms, etc. Maybe not the majority, but I know some Neutral orgs that deliberately assist one side of the other in the conflict. Which side do they pick to help?
Usually, it's whatever side that has "helped" them in the past, or hasn't abused and belittled them for not belonging to one side or the other. That person is a loose cannon and cannot be accounted for. In a 2 way fight, the armed 3rd person standing off to the side is just as dangerous as your enemy, psychologically if nothing else. Neither of the combatants can trust the 3rd party for fear that he will either help the enemy or wait until one kills the other and kill the remaining warrior. Either way, it's not something I wish to see, and therefore it behooves the 2 combatants to kill the 3rd party before he becomes a threat to either of them. Human history is loaded with examples of this, so it's not something that is very new.
How does one reconcile the economic impact of the Neutrals doing business with one side of the conflict in imbalance of helping or hindering the other side? It's not possible. In most wars, civil or not, there have been a most unscrupulous lot, known as black marketeers, that sell and buy goods illegally obtained during fighting or thievery. They often inflate the value of their goods to ridiculous amounts and insure that the only source of those goods is the black marketeers themselves.
Now, I'm not saying that Neutrals are all like this, in fact, most of them aren't. Trouble is, how can we tell the difference since you have no affiliation? Your goal is to make money, and war profiteers that aren't involved in one side or the other don't exactly thrill me or garner any respect. I may have a severe dislike for most Omni fighters I meet due to their arrogance, insolent attitudes and the ease through which they go through their lives tied to the Corporation as they are. But you can bet I have a respect for the individuals as I meet them, provided they acquit themselves with honor and decency.
Can't say as I have as much respect for the Neutrals. At some point, you make a stand. Big business and it's impact on our quality of life, or freedom of the individual and damn the profits. It's there, and the causes are both just (to their own points of view). But a side one must take.
Re: That's a big problem with this whole "factional" organization with respect to Neutral
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Originally posted by joshuacrime
Can't say as I have as much respect for the Neutrals.
Your loss.
Quote:
Originally posted by joshuacrime
At some point, you make a stand. Big business and it's impact on our quality of life, or freedom of the individual and damn the profits. It's there, and the causes are both just (to their own points of view). But a side one must take.
Utter nonsense. This conflcit has been running on and off for over two centuries and nobody even knows what its really about anymore. You ask Clanners, they'll tell you they fight to defend their homes and families from Omni aggression. You ask an Omni, they'll tell you they fightto defend their homes and families from Clan aggression. We are locked in a stupid, viscous circle neither side has the courage to break. And on thise rare occasion someone does try, as Ross did with the Amensty, the Dust Brigade promptly appears to mess things up.
Given this context, doesn't not taking part in the conflict seem the only sane and morally sound course of action?
Savoy
This war is not about keeping the war going for profit
No one profits in that, except the arms dealers. Since none of us here are those, none of us here profits. We all just bodies in the grist mill for the corporations that keep RK supplied with arms and ammunition. But of course, Clan's need guns, or Omni-Tek would have a monopoly of force, and that would create their perfect little snack-pack world where we all worship the almighty Ross in our filthy cities.
No, this is an ideological war now. The reasons for it beginning are long gone in the mists of time, but we can go back to them from time to time to illustrate how we did get here. The Clan idealogues (myself included) value the freedom of the individual and the rights of every sentient being on this planet, human or not.
Why does Clan have a beef with Omni-TeK? Because their ethos is antithetical to Clan, which is a totalitarian commerce system. Why do we have a beef with neutrals? Because they just want to profit off of our blood and reap the advantages of whoever is left over. Bah humbug.
That distinction is why the war continues. Because Omni-Tek thinks itself a government and a business, and Clan wishes no truck with that. We'll govern ourselves, thank you, and the business can remain seperate. Think about it from that perspective, and you'll begin to understand.
Re: This war is not about keeping the war going for profit
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Originally posted by joshuacrime
No, this is an ideological war now. The reasons for it beginning are long gone in the mists of time, but we can go back to them from time to time to illustrate how we did get here. The Clan idealogues (myself included) value the freedom of the individual and the rights of every sentient being on this planet, human or not.
Is that so? I've seen Clanners doing horrible, horrible things to the Rhinomen, hunting them down in their settlements. I've also seen them attack the Yuttos village in the Wailing Wastes. How does that reflect the Clans's respect for the rights of every sentient being on this planet?
There is no one Clan idealogy aiming for all sort different, incompatible things. Lets face it, if it were up the Eco Warrior Clan, one of the original Clans, no one would be allowed on Rubi-Ka, neither Omni or Clan!
Savoy
Then a thick headed Scoundrel and Blackguard I be...
This will be the last post I make in this chat, because now we are making it personal, which I will not stoop to. To heap rhetorical scorn on silly ideas is one thing, to make it personal is another entirely.
However, I will make my last points about this. It is the unfortunate lawyering of my ironic sense that will complete my statements to this debate. The Clan built structures we are talking about here are not huge cities. Tir is not Omni-1 or Entertainment. Nor is it the area where the massdrivers are located, or countless other areas that dot the landscape to the south of Rubi-Ka. The huge sites that I have seen in countless places compare NOTHING to what I see in Clan held territories that we have built. Our cities are small, your strip mines, notum mines and whatever else you're digging up all over down there have utterly pocked the landscape. And you think it's significantly relevant to deal with a piddly little semantic irony? Please.
Murder is murder by any stretch? Says who? If you are underarmed, undermanned and outnumbered, do you go and fight one on one with this opponent? Surely not. If you capture enemy, and the removal of their presence from you is considered to be advantageous to your cause, do you not do it? Of course you do. It's pointless to hold this arguement on that basis, the "we all go by the same rules or you're scum" because we do not have the same circumstances by which to judge them. 10-1 odds against you would necessitate you to use guerilla tactics, which includes the killing of enemy forces in any manner you can. The smaller force has no hope of winning except politically, so don't think that Clan forces during the stages of the rebellion or in any case where Clan was severely outnumbered and outgunned are even remotely to be considered on equal terms. We are not.
If you want to talk about murder in wartime, you're dreaming more than Freud would even feel comfortable dealing with. Freedom fighting is precisely what it is, from OUR perspective. Of course Omni people don't see it that way. You're our enemy until such time as we agree we aren't any longer. Until then, death in wartime, whether in your ridiculous notion of "honorable combat" (you aren't knights and you never had that much honor to begin with) or otherwise is going to happen and continue to happen.
And since we're on the topic of "armed thugs, militants and terrorists", ho boy! Omni-Tek calling ANYONE that but themselves is such completely obdurate hypocrisy that I am actually stumped for a reply. You got me on that one. Wow...I'm impressed. And since Omni is SO all powerful (according to you), you could be rehabilitating this planet RIGHT NOW, but you choose not to. Not because of the bloody Dust Brigade or the bloody Sentinels. But because you choose not to. Why? I think it's because you haven't completed your turning on of the Omni-Tek goods vacuum and sucked Rubi-Ka until all you get is leet lint. Clans don't need to give YOU the freedom to rebuild anything, nor do the Neutrals require Clan permission to do so either. No Clan forces are attacking your cities. So get over it, and quit misrepresenting the facts as if YOU speak for the Corporation. You're just another cog in the big ugly machine. Just like I don't. It's my opinion and nothing more and my interpretation.
And for the neutrals, we have so many of you Omni's pointing your black iron gloved fist in our direction and saying "You Clanners abuse the Neutrals so much" and all that jazz, and here we have a true Neutral telling us that all they want to do is use the war to fatten their wallets. Given that the Neutral faction is so diverse and so diametrically opposed in their goals and aims, all they are is a 3rd faction with their own interests. They are not Neutral by any stretch of the imagination, and for those who wish for peace, you're simply in the wrong neighborhood. Sorry about that, but you're only making the conflict last longer by playing our two sides against the other. Personally, the more I hear this, the more I'm siding with the Sentinels in this, because at least with the Omni people, I know where they stand. They are my enemy and they would cut my throat rather than talk to me, and I'm pretty much agreed with that sentiment. Neutrals, however, claim to be above the fray but I've seen enough examples to know that they just tip the balance from one side to the other. So, keep it up, Neutrals. I think that you're finding that Clanners don't even want to deal with you any longer. Fine by me. Sorry it has to be that way, but it is.
In closing, despite all of your pinpricks and the nitpicking examples of "Clan criminal behaviour", the overall ethos of Clan IS freedom of the individual over the group, and the rights of the individual over the group. If you don't believe it, I'm not surprised, because you already have your minds made up before you see what we really stand for.
Blackguard and scoundrel. Indeed. :rolleyes: