The Mystery of special recharge caps solved!!

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Apr 28th, 2004, 13:27:02
Vhalor

The Mystery of special recharge caps solved!!

Here is how to calculate the special recharge cap for the weapon your using:

Full Auto Weapon Cap = 10s + Weapon Attack speed
Burst Weapon Cap = 8s + Weapon Attack speed
*Aimed Shot Weapon Cap = 10s + Weapon Attack Speed
*Flingshot Weapon Cap = 3s + Weapon Attack Speed

*From talking with people I'm guessing the caps for aimed shot and fling shot are somewhat like this but I can't be 100% sure as I haven't tested it myself.

Now I'm fairly sure the final cap gets rounded somehow so that it's a whole number. However, weapons with .5 in their attack (like Augmented Hellspinner) still seem to round down and has a 9 second burst recharge without skill lock. However Caterwaul has .9 in it's speed and seems to still round up so I'm still unsure of how the rounding works.

This is of course without any skill lock at all. Special recharges can still be brought below these caps using -skill lock equipment.

Weapons used in testing:
Augmented Hellspinner - 1.5 second attack speed (used for testing burst)
Augmented Hellfury - 2.5 second attack speed (used for testing burst)
QL 200 Perennium Blaster - 1 second attack speed (used for testing full auto and burst)
QL 169 Spastic Assault rifle - 4.03 second attack speed (used for testing full auto and burst)
QL 236 Spastic Assault rifle - 5.04 second attack speed (used for testing full auto and burst)
QL 200 Caterwaul - 2.9 second attack speed (used for testing aimed shot)
QL 199 Ithaca Snakemaster - 1 second attack speed (used for testing aimed shot)
QL 260 Massive Bolt Charger - 1 second attack speed (used for guessing fling cap)

EDITED: Just to clarify what I'm talking about is the limit to which you can reduce your special recharge. Not the method in which the recharge is calculated. This is the recharge time you will get if you had 10,000 skill in the respective skill, the actual skill needed to get your recharge to this point is shown in a thread listed in the soldier resources thread.
Apr 28th, 2004, 14:07:39
Ullgencer

did you get 14\15 sec on the spastic w\o any skill lock? (might be a moronic question when i think about it =P but if you say yes i wont bother going to rk to test my own)

nicely done! *aplaudes*
Apr 28th, 2004, 15:01:39
Madde

Simply great Vhalor. I can't wait untill i get home so i can try to prove your wrong only to find out your right. :)
Apr 28th, 2004, 16:18:11
Dystopic

Sadly, I know AS is not capped using that formula. With 1170/1300 AS skill my Supernova with no skill lock will cap at 75s. :(

P.S. Doesn't the Hellfury Burst cap at 5-6s?

P.P.S. Vhalor you got the Ithaca AS down to 9s with no skill lock? Wow, that might make it fun for PvP again. BTW, how fast was Fling Shot on Ithaca? 4s??

We need to get you an Alsaqri or a Zastaba to test out Aimed Shot on those ;)
Apr 28th, 2004, 17:21:50
Garjon

Quote:

Originally posted by Hellfire
Sadly, I know AS is not capped using that formula. With 1170/1300 AS skill my Supernova with no skill lock will cap at 75s. :(

This is about where a weapon is HARD capped, you're not capped at 75 sec with a supernova, you need 3Kish + skill to get it down to it's cap.

Oh and good job vhalor, should add that some weapons seems bugged. like that Pupil shotgun which seems to be possible to get down to 7 seconds. Will let you know about this though.
Apr 28th, 2004, 17:35:15
Dystopic

Quote:

Originally posted by Boce

This is about where a weapon is HARD capped, you're not capped at 75 sec with a supernova, you need 3Kish + skill to get it down to it's cap.

Oh and good job vhalor, should add that some weapons seems bugged. like that Pupil shotgun which seems to be possible to get down to 7 seconds. Will let you know about this though.

Look again. With 1170 AS, that should reduce base AS recycle by 35s and with 1300 AS skill by 39s. So Supernova with 2.5 Recharge has a base 100s AS recycle. But my recycle stands capped at 75s. That is the hard cap.
Apr 28th, 2004, 18:05:17
binaural

this would explain why people with higher q lvl spastics have a 13 second recharger as opposed to say 10-11 people with sub 200 are reporting.

i have a 5.08 second attack on my spastic so 13 seconds makes perfect sense.

blargh.
Apr 28th, 2004, 19:15:06
Barimen

Quote:

Originally posted by Hellfire

Look again. With 1170 AS, that should reduce base AS recycle by 35s and with 1300 AS skill by 39s. So Supernova with 2.5 Recharge has a base 100s AS recycle. But my recycle stands capped at 75s. That is the hard cap.

Supernova has AR and RE as attack skills, i do not know why but any weapon with 2 attack skills has longer recharge on specials then single skill guns.

Same with flashpoint or nova flow I think, i remember testing this a very long time ago. did not get any hard numbers, just that the recharge was longer, for some reason, with dual skill guns. (yes i took recycle numbers into concideration).

This theory could use some real testing though, from anyone who is up for it, would be nice to know for sure. Seeing as guns like the Div 9 dont really apply to this rule i think. Comparing burst on coop and Nova Flow for example, (3000 and 2800 burst cycle respectively), migth give some answers. I can not do that as i resetted RE upon hitting 201 :(

Bari
Apr 28th, 2004, 21:33:56
Vhalor

Quote:

Originally posted by Ullgenser
did you get 14\15 sec on the spastic w\o any skill lock? (might be a moronic question when i think about it =P but if you say yes i wont bother going to rk to test my own)

Yea 15 second full auto and 13 second burst on the QL 236, 14 second full auto and 12 second burst on the QL 169.

Please remember that with Aimed shot and Fling shot I'm totaly guessing here. If there is anyone out there with high skills in either please test them out some.

I'm also su****ous that it might be 4s + attack speed for flingshot, can someone with a MBC use a watch and test it without skill lock equipment in? Also can someone with 1500+ AS skill tell me if they can get Supernova below 75 second, hellfire is saying it's caped there if you don't use skill lock.

Thanks for the feedback guys =)
Apr 29th, 2004, 00:01:57
Dystopic

bump for Vhalor's suggestion

I would add that you cannot rely on the recycle feedback messages, they're totally borked. Either use a watch or do this:

Hit Special, hit F9
See Special is available message, hit F9

F9 will show you the time so the difference should be the recycle time.

Someone please please find a lower than 75s recycle on Supernova :D
Apr 29th, 2004, 00:05:49
Garjon

Quote:

Originally posted by Hellfire
bump for Vhalor's suggestion

I would add that you cannot rely on the recycle feedback messages, they're totally borked. Either use a watch or do this:

Hit Special, hit F9
See Special is available message, hit F9

F9 will show you the time so the difference should be the recycle time.

Someone please please find a lower than 75s recycle on Supernova :D

As I am an agent with extreme AS skill (2098) I am gonna try this for you, both with and without 20% skill lock

Planing to have a "test" day tomorrow on alot of weapons, inclusing some melee with my enforcer.
Apr 29th, 2004, 03:17:50
Escritores

[edit: nm]
Apr 29th, 2004, 07:14:41
Dystopic

Well Burst seems to use Vhalor's formula quite well.

Tested with 6% skill lock (I just wasn't gonna go thru the hell of putting the imp back on) on these weps:

Inamorata Ocra-Xum AR QL 100 3s attack
MCS 3s attack
Both recycled Burst in 10s

Inamorata Ocra-Xum AR QL 100 4.5s attack
12s Burst Recycle

Yes Support 1010 .99s attack
7s recycle

Kerans 1.5s attack
8s recycle

Well I was wrong and right about the Supernova. It isn't hard capped at 75s but it does not follow the recharge x 40s - AS*3/100 formula.

1529 AS skill with 3% skill lock = 66s recycle
1406 AS skill with 6% skill lock = 65s recycle
1276 AS skill with 6% skill lock = 69s recycle

It should be many seconds lower so I think the formula is wrong.

FYI, Skill Lock works. I got my Perennium Blaster to recycle at 5s with -35% skill lock. Ithaca Fling Shot went down to 3s. :D
Apr 29th, 2004, 07:48:45
Londino

Fabulissimo stuff :)
Consider it rooted.
Apr 29th, 2004, 16:01:00
afrofixaren

hmm where does that armour drop? that add so much skill lock?
btw think ql240+ jobe imp will get leg from 5 to 7 skill lock
May 4th, 2004, 07:01:02
Vaalena

AS cap is not going according to this equation.

My AS is 2k+ and with a perennium sniper (1/1) I get 10.5-11 sec recharge (measured with stopwatch). Btw, the time given in game is not reliable - it says 8-9 sec, but you get the 'action not available' for another 2 sec.
The caterwaul has also ~11 sec recharge with stopwatch... (2.9 attack)
May 5th, 2004, 14:34:16
Afelia

When meassuring with stop-watch, don't press the special attack key while waiting.

My guestimate is that trying to use the special again before it's available delays the refresh.

Great work Vhalor.
May 5th, 2004, 20:08:40
Vaalena

Quote:

Originally posted by Afelia
When meassuring with stop-watch, don't press the special attack key while waiting.

My guestimate is that trying to use the special again before it's available delays the refresh.

Great work Vhalor.

True. Smashing special attack key adds delay.
I measure form pressing the 'O' till the message 'AimedShot skill available".