Doesn't it strike anyone else as ironic that a fixer is complaining about only being able to force an opponent to flee? Isn't this the exact complaint that's been levelled at fixers since evades were boosted?
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Doesn't it strike anyone else as ironic that a fixer is complaining about only being able to force an opponent to flee? Isn't this the exact complaint that's been levelled at fixers since evades were boosted?
It could have been 3 NT, 3 crat, 3 agent. Who care about fixers.. Because Im a fixer and I got the so called god mode I shouldnt have the right to talk about my disagreement?
Its not 'a' fixer, its THREE fixers.
3 NTs, 3 Agents, and 3 Crats could have made the doc run sooner or killed them off entirely, Insida, if they played their characters right and acted in a coordinated manner. So could you three Fixers, if you did the same. The key to killing this Doc would have been to coordinate your bursts, or to switch to MCSes.
I've met you and fought against you and I have respect for your abilities, but it sounds like this time you and your friends were losing in the context of a larger battle, and were using the wrong gun for fighting a doctor. The doctor benefited greatly from your weapon choice by debuffing you, and probably would not have been able to hold out against you if you were using the MCS because of its much faster burst recycle.
Ok thanks for the answers, next time I see a doc, ill call a trader and an enforcer to beat the crap out of you. I will stick to killing soldiers and enforcers while Im getting debuffed and my target healed.
It really suck that a doctor can do all of this, tank like crazy, debuff the crap out of everyone and help people while I cant even do one of theses things while a single person is attacking me.. :(
Insida on a mass battlefield no way you can die to a doc, you root the doc and run when you are debuffed. Same way my doc does when I get divested, time to turn tail at that point and hope I don't get rooted.Quote:
Originally posted by Insida
You might not do damage but you seem to forget that your healing stop us from killing other people while WE ARE GETTING KILLED, and those init debuff are so powerfull that they totally destroy anybody. You become a totally unable to make any direct action. To me, that is FAR more dangerous than any damage I can receive, even from EQB enforcers.
But when I play my doc, I debuff any fixer or Queen Blade enforcer I see....Docs are good counter to the slow high damage weapons. There has to be a weakness to the slow high damage weapons for fairness principles don't you think?
Quote:
Originally posted by Insida
Even if we were naked, it would have been the same story. Not only the doc debuffed 3 rooters, she healed a soldier who just finished his opponent and made an agent flee during those 5minutes. We were all TL5 and 6. The doc stayed VERY effective during this battle. Maybe she didnt kill anybody but made 4 person totally ineffecitve, saved a teamate and manged to live after all this.
she stayed alive in that playfield, continued to help her friends and debuffing the **** out of the enemies matters.
Um... thats what a Doctor DOES.
Im sure she had HE/Crunch. A doc without them in a tower battle is stupid. Orwas possibley getting healed by other team mates maybe?
So you couldnt kill her. I took on two EQB Enfs at once. I had to chain cast CH on me, but I stayed alive long enough to run and drag them from my other team mates.
We live. We help others live. Thats our job. As well as debuffing the **** out of our enemies.
Quote:
Originally posted by Insida
You try to sound like doctor are harmless but we both know its not the case. A simple init debuff send you back to lv1, both in damage, protection and effectivness. Ive seen doctors getting out of a bunker, debuffing a whole team, healing themself staying until his team was ready to kill and stay there standing while 5+ guys attacking the doc and getting slaughtered by the opposition.
Far from the truth. I consider, and I know letah does, docs are deadly. We keep others alive through our healing. Who then in turn come kill you. Just like you stated. A team with a doc should OWN a team without one. Period hands down.
Quote:
Originally posted by Insida
It really suck that a doctor can do all of this, tank like crazy, debuff the crap out of everyone and help people while I cant even do one of theses things while a single person is attacking me.. :(
HAHAHAHA
This is totally ironic. I see GA$ fixers tank ALL the time. All the uniques that to big huge uber dmg... GA4 man is tanking.
And that -1500 runspeed isnt a debuff?
Docs are ridiculously overpowered in mass PvP. The init debuffs are way overpowered as are the DOTs. W&R shouldn't have a debuff, UBT should cap at -500 deinit and have a 1 minute duration and docs shouldn't have a stackable line of DOTs. Docs always fall back on the "we are healing you" excuse when in reality healing is only about 1/4 of what docs do in tower PvP. Traders are also way overpowered. There is lots of imbalance in AO PvP. How to balance without nerfing?
80% of the imbalance comes from offensive nanos, the other 20% comes from heals or weapons. Focusing on offensive nanos in this post. The "free action" stims and virus scanners are a really good addition to the game. They keep PvP moving fast which makes it more fun for all. But they do nothing with respect to preventing nanos from sticking in the first place...
Enforcers need no help in the nano resist department. Why? They have excellent base nano-resist and the rage line of nanos.
Nano resist is broken for every other class. Does nothing unless you are at full defense.
Idea 1) So, a line of hostile "rage-like" short term NR buffs (without the other rage effects) might go a long way to alleviating the imbalances created by roots/snares/drains/debuffs/blinds/AoE nukes. Make them do damage or some debuff on the caster and/or recipient as they boost NR or create a sloughing/layers field. The nanos could create a layered nano protection effect such that they would protect against one or more attacks of each nano type with higher levels protecting against more attacks in the way that sloughing fields do now.
Give the nano lines to crats and engys. This is logical for both because 1) Those profs need help to be more useful in mass PvP 2) It fits in nicely with their existing lines.
Make them take up significant NCU on the recipient; make the choice hard between defense and offense.
Beacon spells are annoying and not fun, so don't make them beacons. Make them castable by engys or crats on self or other and make them have relatively short durations ( or in the case of a sloughing field duration doesn't matter). Maybe even make them AoE at higher levels. Make them visual profession so agents can use them, but of course only if the agent is MPing crat or engy.
Idea 2) Create a long term buff that boosts nano resist by alot with the catch that you cannot be healed or buffed by another or cast the big heals on yourself (including HOTs and Mongo) while using it. This line would also take up lots of NCU and would force a choice between defense and offense. Again give it to crats, engys and agents via MP.
These ideas help two classes that need it and don't unduly imbalance anyone. It might cause casters to have to recast nanos once or twice to deactivate the layered protection, but with devastating nanos such as init debuffs/drains/roots/snares/blinds/ AoE nukes/GA nukes, IMO this is how it should be. This would also be a very nice boost for MAs and melee advys (but do NOT give the buffs to MAs or Advys), two professions who have been doing alot of whining (justified and otherwise) about mass PvP lately (not to mention making the new NT nukes a little less devastating to GA fixers).
Before any class (NTs for example) start squalling that this is a huge nerf to casters, consider this 1) You will benefit just like anyone else 2) It just means you have to cast an extra time or two to punch through the protection.
If people think this is a worthwhile idea I may start a thread to try to get FCs attention.
Letah doesn't need to remind you of ****. :)Quote:
Originally posted by Insida
Tell me how uber I am please because I really feel like my proffession is crap right now. It would be really nice i you could remind me of my uberness. Im serious.
Like i said...more holes than swiss cheese. :)Quote:
Originally posted by Insida
Fixer of course, you cant go wrong with fixer.
Nobody can touch you. You have better guns. Your nanoskills can go so high at the end of the game. In PvM your a god, you can solo a group of red mobs while going afk, just make sure you got auto attack on. In PvP you can zone whenever you want, but not just in pvp, even when your leveling in PW NE corner, it takes one second. You can go anywhere on rubika in a matter of second. You can blitz mission easily. You also have speed buff, this mean less downtime = r0xx0r.
Down side, everyone wanna nerf you and you have to spend alot of creds on GA.
You tried to nerf Insida but missed.
well, like i said. me and skymarshal both tried to kill a lvl 180 doc, 2 on 1, we didnt hold back. we tried to time our alphas but it didnt kill her, she slowly wore away at skymarshal till he was dead.
(didnt take THAT long) then she killed me. so yeah she can tank 2 lvl 200 soldiers and kill us as well. seems overpowered? not really.. we can always just walk away.
some docs do an insane amount of damage, so dont even start on that "we do crap for dmg thing" get a caterwaul and AS me for 1500-4k every 15 seconds k?
pomy would outdamage all my damage in pvp with her AS alone.
yeah docs are uber... but at least you can run from them : P
and just FYI i have beaten 3 docs in the 176-183 level range. only because they chose manex or ithika and coundnt do much damage through my high AC reflect and evades.
the tactic for a soldier is this..
Start with Aimed shot... swap to your boosted/augmented. TMS, go full aggro with your hellpsinner when TMS is up, cancel Total focus for the evades now that you have AS'ed (might not haveto.. but i need TF for my 200 supernova)
so now your full aggro with high inits mine is 68 ranged init with UBY on and i shoot pretty fast comparitivly. keeps the bursts flying.. when TMS drops go full DEF... and watch your heal stims.. pray she/he doesnt get a 3-4k AS off in that 30 seconds.
TMS again when you can, use first aid stims or nano stims if you need the nano for another TMS, use notum focus if you need the nano. again go full aggro... hopefully you havent been hurt too badly in those 3o seconds.
again.. go def when TMS runs out and cast a 3rd TMS. by now the doc if self buffed should really be running outta nano, unless they are super uber doc of doom. if you cant run em outta nano on 3 TMS 10's and the extra time till you die then its hopeless.
this also wont work if the doc is using a caterwaul or X-3 because the AS will do most of your health even through TMS and you simply wont last. if the doc is using ithika or manex, you can stand a chance. if your a soldier : )
Thanks bro. I kinda forgot about how good we could be in PvM but still.. Everyone wants to us nerfed and this is a PvP forums too.. I dont care that I can solo ql300 mobs afk(yea right..), it doesnt mean anything at PvP. Doctors can tank, damage, debuff, save ppl. No one else can do that. Your deadly and at the same time your very hard to kill. I rarely see any fixer able to tank more than 2 players at the same without running away but I see doctor tanking little army while debuff the **** out of everyone. Wheres the balance in this? Im not talking about a 1on1 balance, Im talking about usefullness and power at the same time. An enforcer is powerfull and hard to take down but hes melee and he get hit hard. A NT hit hard but hes so weak against attack. An agent can kill in 4seconds but as soon as we see him, he's ****ed. A trader debuff you like crazy but no way in hell he take more than one player at the same time. An Adv heal kinda well but he doesnt hit hard and he wont debuff you either, same for MA. A MP can debuff you also but he got no defence at all against damage beside his hump pet. Now look at doctors. Their debuff are so powerfull. Its like a stun that last for 2 minutes, they can debuff your weapon skills and inflict damage at the same time. Their heal nano are so good, they become harder to kill than a Soldier on TMS. They can save people life. And their gun damage is really not something to be ashamed of, pain of Patricia with Pistol buff from Engi and their AR is around the 1k with towers. Thats the AR of a TL5 Soldier, whos supposed to be a damage dealer with a 200-500dmg weapon(something like that). Now you understand what I mean?!
Most doctors excuse for their 'uberness' is that they are easily affected by debuff. But you seem to forget that EVERYONE is affected by them, not just you. When were drained, we all turn to gimp, not just you. When were init debuffed, we all attack very slow and we all cast very slow, not just you.
lol insida. you gotta undestand people say the same thing about GA4 fixer.
they have an armour which makes then incredibly strong.
They have very strong hots that go along with runspeed so that you can heal yourself very well under attack.
you have a higher Attack rating then soldiers in the end game.
you have roots and snares which are very helpful in almost all pvp situations..
just the combo of grid armour + hot makes people very jealous, you gotta stop calling the kettle black :D
We both know that even Soldiers now are able to beat Fixers 1on1 now Im not even able to tank 2 soldier for more than 5sec, the time it takes them to switch from AS gun to Burst... Snare ownz, I admit, but they only gimp Ma and non pistol Adv. You can break the best area snare in 10 seconds. And fixers have to fight anti GA nuke from NT's.. 2% NR insta cast and 2second recharge of pure2k nonstop damage. The only thing against Doc is the anti CH nano with insane cast/recharge time and 140% NR thats casted by a proffession who is under NSD for 2minutes as soon as they are attacked..
Everything in the game mechanics favours slow, hard hitting weapons over fast, light hitting ones, especially in pvp. Changing to the latter would most likely entail battering oneself on the damage shield any well prepared pvp opponent likely has.Quote:
Originally posted by Morelian
Insida on a mass battlefield no way you can die to a doc, you root the doc and run when you are debuffed. Same way my doc does when I get divested, time to turn tail at that point and hope I don't get rooted.
But when I play my doc, I debuff any fixer or Queen Blade enforcer I see....Docs are good counter to the slow high damage weapons. There has to be a weakness to the slow high damage weapons for fairness principles don't you think?
Yes it is a good debuff aswell, but it also breaks as fast as you get hit once or twice. Additionally it is much more nano pool costly and has a slow recharge. Fixers got another little known dodge debuff that lowers evades by 85 points, with comparable casting time and nano cost, this debuff has a defensive nano resist of 130% compared to the 100% of any initiative debuff.Quote:
Originally posted by Turin
And that -1500 runspeed isnt a debuff?
With the current state of affairs a single doctor might turn the tide of a battle by the force of his debuffs alone. Get debuffed and you might aswell run for cover; your usefulness has just expired. The doctor has more staying power in pvp than any other profession, including GAmkIV fixers, and is near unbeatable by any single profession, bar traders (who can beat anyone) and metas (who everyone beats and are therefore rarely seen in pvp), both which have great debuffs of their own.
I consider attacking any prepared doctor an excersise in futility unless as part of a massive gank fest; consequently I go out of my way to avoid them.
The doctor initiative debuff would be more acceptable if it had its nano cost increased, defensive nano resist heightened, recharge extended and/or direct debuff potential lowered. An alternative would be to introduce stims which could, partly or fully, remove such debuffs.
Virus scanners remove init debuffs in two to three uses.
The mechanics and tactics of mass pvp favor long range weapons with fast recycling specials, especially aimed shot, actually. Guns like the manex look good on paper and are highly effective in pvm and in duels against some professions, but in a long-range, debuff-rich environment they don't make the cut.
With the current state of affairs a single NT can turn the tide of a battle with blinds, or a single Trader with drains or area roots, a single MP with NSD, a single Crat with area mezzes or roots or snares...
This thread is getting off topic, though. To go back to the original post: the fact is, fixers aren't particularly well suited to killing doctors. Fixers are not first-rate damage dealers in PvP, and in this instance they were trying to take out a first-rate healer with weaponry that isn't suited to fighting mass battles.
This is complete....
uhh. No.
1X Fixer can stand off a doc for more than 5 minutes (with RRFE) If the same fixer has ALL NCU's in and is not reliant on NCU buffs, they can do it without RRFE.
2X Fixers can kill a doc outright (self buffed) no problem.
The only problem the 1 fixer has is EP. If the doc gets the EP on you, your done. If you change guns mid fight, your done. If you do not have First Aid for nano, your done.
You have to be setup properly.
You can not base the limitations of an entire profession on a small percentage of the character base.
Doc's are definately not unkillable.