PvP balance problems introduced in 13.0, and funcoms answer.
I play an NT, and obviously, i was concerned with the changes in 13.0, since if they came through would completely nerf my class ability to PvP. So i mailed Funcom;
All damage output in PvP is halved. All healing is still at full effect. Here already we have a clear imbalance, those classes that can combine a decent damage output with healings will have a clear advantage on all other classes, and doctors will be close to invincible in PvP. The only real solution for this problem that i can see is to halve all healing done while in combat with another player, this would restore heal/damage ratio to what it was before, and i think it was balanced. Now this would probably solve most of the problems, but (always a but) theres one problem that i see, and that is the nano-technicians. As it is todays, even with the improved Humiditary extractors, it is often a close call for a NT if his nanopool will be enough to kill another player, against Martial artists and adventurer it is -always- a close call and sometimes the NT has to refill his Nanos during the fight. With damage output halved NTs will hardly stand a chance to kill someone with their current high nano costs for formulas, not to mention fighting the classes that can actually heal. And as if that was not enough, Nano formulas does not initialize combat, so even if heals were capped to half what it normally does when in PvP combat, people would still be able to heal full against NTs since nuking doesnt count as being in combat.
Now there must be a way to solve this. Lets see:
A) Halve healing while in PvP combat.
B) Make offensive Nano formulas (roots, dots, nukes) initialize combat.
C) Enhance the Crunchcom line of NFs slightly, making them reduce the cost a little more.
This would solve all the problems with balance introduced in 13.0 and put PvP balance back to what it is today, with the exception that there will be no more instant kills and fights will take longer. If this is the way things would end up after 13.0 i think pretty much everyone would enjoy PvP alot more.
Now, i honestly doesnt even think that this mail will be more than perhaps skimmed through, i myself run a MUD with about one thousand players and i know how hard it is to read and consider all feedback, but please consider this, if not i fear that PvP will be seriously nerfed after 13.0. Anyway, due to these changes im going back to playing my adventurer, he has more tokens than my NT anyway :P
And this is their answer:
Greetings! Thanks for the feedback. The dev team always loves to get
input from players. We have gotten a handful of emails regarding the
halving of damage and intact healing and understand why people might be
concerned about the imbalance it may make with healing classes. All I
can say is that they have been testing this new change and it has not
resulted in much of a power shift (otherwise they wouldn't be
implementing it).
Obviously there may be players (like in all MMOs) that managed to
manipulate the ruleset to their advantage but remember: no changes to a
patched game are forever cast in stone. Rest assured that if some
imbalances show up that make PvP less enjoyable, we will fix them.
For now, keep enjoying AO =)
Now i have tried PvP as an NT with halved damage. It is impossible to kill anyone before the nano runs out (well, maybe not at level125+, i dont know). Not to mention when you fight healing classes. The dev team obviously hasnt tested NTs in PvP with the new changes, since i doubt they would make a statement like that if they had.
Fact: NTs can not kill anyone in PvP.
Tested the new PvP....... I'm pissed
Hey, I have several different characters... but I always liked the NTs. The nukers.... masters of all that is Nano...... right!!!!
I made a second NT for PvP... and he was great. NT solitus with MA skills. At lvl 10 I was undefeated, even by other uber characters... I was only beat once by a lvl 7 agent that had a QL46 rifle with aimed shot.
My average arena fight when like this:
1. Root
2. Accelerated Titanium Pellet 122-227 damage
3. let them foolishly come inside
4. Regular punch 20-30 damage
5. Brawl 30-50 damage 100+ crit
6. Dimach 200 damage (rarely need)
7. Accelerated Decay, Halon Cloud, or Chemical Burn 50-103 damage
8. A few regular punches in between and game over
It was a good strategy, and worked well for me. Now it goes something like this:
1. Accelerated Titanium Pellet for about 70 damage
2. Regular hit for about 10
3. Brawl for about 15
4. Dimach for about 90
5. Accelerated Decay, Halon Cloud or Cheical Burn 25-50
6. Repeat step 5 about 2 or 3 times.
7. Opponent heals to full health
8. I run out of nano
9. regular hit for 10 <~~~ no nano at this point
10. Respawn and stare at reclaim terminal like a jackass.
NT is unplayable at PvP now especially arena PvP
Thanks Funcom :-(
Actually half-heals won't work
Imagine, if you will, that some PVP actually took place more that 10m from a whompa or grid exit. Say you were in Deep artery valley hunting and found a party very busy with a huge mob. Hmm, good time to ambush em, your enemy's enemy is your friend, true? So you attack, now all their heals are at half, including the damage the mob is doing, which is not half. Heck you can shoot and run a bit out of range and let the mob finish the job =].
What really needs to happen is there needs to be one combat system where PVP and PVM are balanced. As of now there are 2 combat systems. I really think the best answer is just to doubble players HPs, leave mobs the same, keep the 40% cap on any 1 attack, and remove the 50% off all attacks.
My crazy thoughts.
Healing classes have an advantage, not that I mind
but really most pvp takes place now 1 step or 2 from a zone, and even if you can only heal yourself 5-7 times, after you've exhausted your last heal you can step into the whompa and be gone.
One of the reason's why zand and his bunch rock 2ho is because they are all docs, mas, Advs, fixers and traders. Debuff and healing classes basically rock.
I'm a soldier, but i say good for them, most of their classes needed some love in PVP and now they got it. I guess zand pretty much rocked it pre-patch, but hey a little extra love doesn't hurt.
I agree with the PvP imbalances in 13.0, and more...
You guys have made a good point with all the new imbalances 13.0 has made. Hopefully someone important will read these posts and work to balance them out again. A summarization of the imbalances I've experienced and heard about:
- Healing nanos. They are now twice as powerful because they still heal for 100% of what they use to while damage is lowered 50%. Those who can heal in combat (not counting first aids) have a significant advantage over those who don't heal.
- Cutting PvP damage in half. I don't think this is a very good solution to what was trying to be fixed. Now there are two sets of damage we have to familiarize ourselves with - one for mobs, one for other players. Sure... pvp is simply half, but to someone who really pays attention to the damage they do (knows what they normally crit for, knows their average brawl, knows when a good burst hits), having TWO sets of damage types is just an unessecary hassle.
- Those that rely on nano's for damage are disadvantaged. Theoretically, an NT will need twice as much nano to kill someone. A soldier will need twice as much bullets. NT uses nano first aid and is ok. Soldier reloads ammo and is ok. NT runs out again an tries to use first aid... still has to wait several seconds. Soldier reloads fine and kills off NT. I'm not saying soldiers need to be nerfed, I'm saying that twice as much nano points will be consumed in battle while the ability to replenish nano has not increased "twice" as much to meet the balance, pre-patch. A solution for this is not to lessen the recharge time of first aid - it's the -50% damage rule that's the problem to begin with in my opinion!
- Pets, from what I've heard, still do 100% damage. However, they also still "take" 100% damge... which sounds fair. But to me it sounds screwy to have people dealing damage on one specific scale, while pets do their damage on another damage scale... while in the same battle!
- This next example doens't have to do with the new patch but I thought I'd mention it. I was playing my NT against an enf. I rooted him and started to nuke. Then he healed. He was using a hacked graft because the general heal would do nothing at this lvl. Ok, so I continuted to root and nuke as effectively as I could, while he was landing some good shots between roots. I finally used up my nano first aids so I had to run. Upon fleeing, the enforcer was at full health despite the nukes. You might say that I have weak nukes. I say it's because he was able to use the graft over and over and also because heals weren't halved along with the damage. What good is an Adv or MA (as far as having a healing advantage) if ANYONE can use a hacked healing graft to the efficiency described in my NT vs. Enf example?
Why was the -50% PvP rule implemented? Maybe to prevent instant kills, which I can understand. But if someone who just came from a hunting spree (with un-updated armor/weapons and all) walks into a PvP zone and complains about getting killed too fast... that's not a good reason to cry "Halve the PvP damage! Halve the PvP damage so it will be fair!" No one should be forced to always have updated armor/weapons/nanos, but if you walk into a PvP zone for god's sake you better be prepared! If this is the reason why damage was halved (to give "unprepared" players who enter PvP zones a sporting chance), that sounds like bull to me. However, there are people who are fully "prepared", enter PvP , and still get killed fast as well. And yes, a balancing issue sounds justified in that sense - but the -50% damage rule created more problems than fixed. Some would say that twinking is the problem in PvP. Yeah, some twinking can reach ubsurd levels but I don't think "completely" eliminating it would be good either. What would Rubi-ka be like if all lvl 50 soldiers carry lvl 50 guns? Sounds boring to me. One aspect of this game I like is the ability to customize yourself to try to be a more formidable foe. Some say putting a "cap" on EXTREME twinking is a solution, which sounds good to me. And others say twinking should become non-existent. It seems to me that those are the players who either never PvP, or die too much in PvP. And some say I'm trying to write a frickin' essay so I'll end it here. Bottom line: halving PvP damage at first sounds like a valid solution but it really isn't. Instant kill battles = too fast, unfair. Sloowww battles (-50% rule intact) = verrrrry boring. Somewhat fast battles = exciting, adrenaline pumping! There must be another solution out there!!!!