Re: You say this, I say that....
Quote:
Originally posted by Xaeberane
Ok you call it optimization others call it overequiping. Shall we mince words some more? Let's muddy the waters even further and make the topic even more rediculous.
Optimization....is it right for a lvl 10 player to carry the same equipment as a lvl 50 player...lvl 75 player...lvl 100 player or even a lvl 20 player? Should that much "optimization" be allowed?
Ok you don't like that, lets say it in another example.
A lvl 40 player has "optimized" himself so he is wearing equipment and weapons that make his character as powerful as a lvl 100 player. Or perhaps a lvl 100 player who has "optimized himself to be as powerful as a lvl 200 player.
It's all very possible with the game the way it currently is. Hell yeah I can equip and QL 150 Stigma Rifle on my lvl 35 agent , but is that fair to the lvl 100 agent who's not able(financially or just can't find the buffs or equipment) who is stuck with a QL 100 Stigma? No it most definatly is not.
first, this shows you have no idea how ATK works.
a level 100 with a QL200 weapon is not nearly as powerful
as a level200 character. The weapon damage is MULTIPIED
by the ATK skill. A character with double the ATK skill will
be doing an enourmous amount more damage with the
same weapon.
as for your example, I have no sympathy for a
level 100 agent who can't finance himself or
'cant find the buffs or equipment'.
"not fair"?
what's not fair is dumbing down my game for incompetent people.
Corrected List (up to date)
Quote:
(Positive) - Those that give a favorable remark or outright approve the OE part of the patch.
Quote:
(Negative) - Those that give an unfavorable remark or outright disapprove of the OE part of the patch.
Quote:
(Neutral) - Those that say nothing about the patch altogether, wish for further testing, or are neither for or against the OE part of the patch.
This poll will get bigger. This poll is the offical poll of the OE part of this patch for the first 68 (SIXTY EIGHT) pages of the thread. This poll is current and up to date.
(Positive) - 168 votes
(Negative) - 98 votes
(Neutral) - 112 votes
(Positive list)
Squick
Hoover
Eloy
Pangur
Kryos
MSag
Poteen
Intra
Drabin
Nightlord
MrTreatime
Erelius
Bionitrous
Psilock
n0th1ng
AIL leader
Stuckey
Blackwing
Corri_SOTA
Marthos
Terrorizer
Dr. Sent
Scorus
Omega
Sytrae
hideo2
onomastikon
ImaGideon
Szentisha
Katwon
Psilock
Jorl
Freedman
Darkbane
Magikha
Hextorr
Sarelron
Nalissa
Highttower
Edict
Kilrwavz
Nibiru
Paldorr
Thargon
Steroidjerk
dJOEk
Skybert
Deljin Blaed
Drenir
Mmore
Nakoda
Xephiroth
Templar Red
Pacifica
Psilex
Rawsan
Ionick
Shard
Fion
Muftak
Seoman
JohnMcClain
Ymodem-G
Akushin
Lichoon
Moondawg
Brad, STL/MO
Davedread
Cernix
Oldscotch
Snails
Siksi
Tekhead
Gigaquad
Netsapiens
Ponder
Puppetfinger
Charritty
Bully
Zuh
Qantaqa
Starbob
Fumar
Zargoslord
Thescotsman
Zwie
Tipai
Mikebond
General JinJinn
Whitedread
Gaspard
Doc against PvP
Chynn
Mirandia
Reppaz
Malkosha
Xyberviri
Spook
Lightining
ENF*isarugi
Lozer
VamphOzr
Camper
Skara
Bronto-Cowboy
nanomancer
Meka
Keisuki FD
Snublefot
Pencap
neurozic
Vrach
hexxia
hextorr
Lilith
CHILD
Silmaril
Chromatorg
Angelous0001
VIP1912
Croaker
Shadelore
Cheetra
Foul Ole Ron
Nikho
DeKida
Dogleg
MorphX
Sloth
Profusious
Striked
Exekius
Highway
Strikethree
DiVillian
Fotik
Canidy
D.Shaffer
Elria
Iceman
Nvrmore100
Killahsin
Cyberwiz
Tyger
RedSonja
Aimabel
Mimmi
Maephina
Dogberry545
Dorn B’Dinn
LucidTrance
ArAgOrN
Master Wong
Rexpen
Helise
AdvClown
Noq
Paganheart
EziSarious
Christopher
Yme
Troll
MrPendent
Ieungm
Thruthvang
Adolanabantz
Beastie
Crymcyn
(Negative List)
Pantheon
Darkphoenix
Wompla
MuCephi
Xylon
Thegrimblade
DJuxtapose
BigStrongGuy
max-iic
Tindish
Dareus
Scumbug
Arila
Baxie
Munti
Tjessem
Slinki
Rolller
Morgoth
Omniscient
DukeLeto
Julia Pomka
Zyxlquith
Marc
Ford Prefect
ArticZ
Subject IV
Rankin Dread
Jakespeed
Ironphist
Peekaboo
Teccer
Gokudan
Aaeleji
Fongsayyuk
Zeroshift
Mechrabbit
Wutto
Pete1010
Lord Cyrik
Sdloner
Smack
Usananoman
Crin
Don Fiendieloni
Ethanmonat
Phelisha
Skatty
Stifelife
Shizara
Suede
Xandru
heart of evil
Tsk
Demoncleaner
Urshulgi
Blade / Silki X
Celestiness
thatdangelf
reznoir
Junglerot
mahdi
Felix7
mephala
Mrbunny
Valis
Zarfon
Barron
Stickyspoonz
Ravencroft
Melcommish
Postier
Furyferret
Denaura
Donzilla
Lord iCeDrAgOn
Uziel
Painsmaiden
Greybear
Leviathan
Gemfire
Jeek500
Exmax
KIRTAP
Zhubarb
Its-me
Entrap
Hafenbraut
Wirus
Seppo
Boogiebum
Dogmatize
DrCam
Silent
Anisotropic
Maitrize
Raysight
Dark_Omen
(Neutral List)
Starknaked
Cloud
Azzazzimon
Nitewolf
Valdus
Dropcid
Urshu
Defjam
Kirrana
WGMelchior
Evilglitch
ryu1313
Lord Nemesis
Takuan
RoboKa
Miriandel
Snarf
Besheba
Moodyman
Arcanian
Penguin
Arinia
Dscoper
Vandame
Zuleica
Fingers
Cbehrens40
Xtremtech
Orion
Alkanphel
grahamX0r
Cub
Cat
Selfished
Senator-jesse
Pneuma
Machievelli
Jackswift
Jentai
Halbundy
Ecce
Gavalon
Yme
MrGumby
Forth
daVinci
Thral
Halcyinv2
Utrilla
Eliteskillz
Ulala
[Crispy Chicken]
Skyxxis
Damion666
maxenhancements
killahsin
Tek
Matilades
Oshikai
Shandrilar
Anglais
Morloyck
Sensei
Stabber
Avatarius
Medwar
x-genesis
kijiko
cerbius-trader
Cheese
doctorearl
war
Cadelite
stercoral
nanogater
Spacegipsy
kaiousama
Glotock
Jodocast
Nzime
Bauxite
Bartleby
Nerdboy
Muni
Rentrenegade
Griemdall
Sadie
Vespucci
Maligant
Vicktor
Talonpheonix
Relic
Xylon
Hawx
LordHelmchen
Lanasia
Diu
Oniko
Metabolism
Spambastard
Maximilian
Xaeberane
Aurorae
Mara
Ripple of Soul
Ultra1
Turbulence
Carlsberg
Freedmen
Marleen
Krui
Sernon*-)
What could make me change my mind?
I was just browsing around as the servers were down for the second time TODAY, and thinking about the patch. I realised that no it won't matter what level equipment you can put on , because even if you are level 1 and somehow manage to shoehorn in QL200 equipment, due to the 20%/-25% formula, that piece of QL200 equipments acts like a piece of QL1 equipment. Well, FC, lets carry this out to it's logical conclusion. If I have a weapon, let's say some sort of laser rifle, and I don't deal as much damage with it because I don't understand how to use it,(being OE'd), then once I gain the nessicary skill to use it correctly, my damage output goes up with it(Being 0% OE'd). Now when my skill goes to 20% above that laser rifle's nominal requirements, shoudln't my damage output increase 25%(Being 20% UE'd)? If I've got this rifle, and at first I can't use it because the rifle scope is computerised, and I don't know how to reload it quickly, when my skill increases with it, why shoudln't I go BEYOND it's normal damage output? Suddenly, I know everything there is to know about the weapon, I can aim and fire it so quickly it's like a natural reaction rahter than a thought about action. I know the scope's deficencies, and I can adjust for that, I know which parts of the body are more suceptible to the type of laser that rifle fires out, I know how to compensate for gravity bending the laser, etc. in short, why not get rid of the equipment QL thing altogether? Just shove it out the door, we don't need it. Instead, get a different sort of statistic based on nominal damage for a weapon and then increase it or decrease it as the skills used by that weapon increases or decreases. instead of having
dmg 10-180(94)
martial arts 500
brawl 230
1h blunt 380
dimach 140
, cut out the skill requirments. Just have
Skills required:martial arts, brawl, 1h blunt, dimach. Base damage: 10-42(12).
Have each weapon's damage output change using a formula calculated on a character's level, and their skills in the required fields. If you're going to make this big of a change in the game limiting how good equipment an person can have, fix it so it's equal for people underequiped as people overequiped.
And I don't want to hear "Oh, you have bought a renewing subscription" again from the GMs like that means I am pleased with the game. I've bought one because I planned on playing for a few months and I didn't want to have to go pay every month.
Ahhh.. all the wonderful questions...
I would like to startt off by saying that i disagree with this patch in principle. People work hard and invest time and money in to these OE'd characters. They do it because they like being better then everyone else and because that is what "building" your character is all about. But i think there is a difference between OE'ing and Twinking. I think that funcom needs to get a better understanding of this. I have a lvl 60 trader who is OE'd. She has a set of armor that is all her lvl +- 10 levels (all within the legal 20% limit). Everything i own and wear is self buffed and bought with hard earned money. I dont sell my wrangles unless i take the time to get mochams and set up in a backyard and adverties. When people ask, i give freely. I make money selling glasses, clothes, information. My implants are all my QL only 2 or 3 are what i would call OE'd implants (and those are only lvl 80). I use a ql 130 vektor which helps me finish off my ql 80-90 missions. If this new patch goes live, i will have to step down to a QL 109 (and i will be legal with the necessary deprive and ransack running). FUNCOM...that is what i call OE'd. To the point of abstructing game play for everyone? NO.
I have also made a younger trader and have given him everything he could ever want. He is lvl a5 and struts around with a lfl 50 ithika (this gun requires aimed shot fling, and shotgun). He has over 60 NCU and wears nothing but a med suit. He first aids for his entire bar and can heal himself for .5 of it at anytime. FUNCOM...thats is twinked. To the point that it disrupts game play for everyone else? YES in that you (FUNCOM) has changed the game world to adjust for his overpowering.
My point: Your patch will affect him NONE! It will hinder my legitimate trader who plays team missions and hunts. After this patch, i will be forced to break out the calculator more often and adjust my implants, NCU's more regularly, but it will in no way cause me to not twink my character to every extent possible. I will still be blowing away noobs in PVP with a 19.5% higher gun that what i can weild. Or if the numbers work out, i will be using a 39.5% gun. Or maybe 39.5% armor and a 19.5 % gun.
FUNCOM, what you need to do is fix the problem, not put limitations on the results. When i read the patch information, amny questions came to mind.
1) If buffs are included in figuring your skill level, are debuffs considered as well. (as a trader, GOD I HOPE SO!) *wicked laugh*
2) Weapons that have multiple skills IE 50% shotgun 25 Aimed 25% Fling Will there be 3 different checks and averaged result using the %'s set forth in item data? or will it be solely shotgun skill, with the toher 2 being figured when using those particular shots? If i am missing fling by >20% will thw shot gun still make normal damage and less with fling only?
3) Nano programs Same questions...once loaded will they be doing 25% less damage based on skills? Or is it still no skill no casting nano?
And here is where i propose an idea. I like the idea of forcing people to continue to run the programs that they use to load a weapon, armor. But that is going to backfire, especially on the newer players who dont have the NCU to hold everything they should, while the twinkers are going to know what eeds to be run and what can be worked around. If you are going to be making drastic changes such as this...try something a little more straightforward and more direct to the problem.
Player skill / Required skill * Damage Amount = Actual damage
To be honest, this 20% is just a target to mbe met by every twinker in the game. And believe me, we will! A simple formula like this will give a more accurate indication of the skill/weapon ratio. This can also be applied to armor:
Player skill/Required skill * AC = Actual AC
And Implants, And NCU!!!!
Now here is where i go out on a limb and ad somethign that may or may not be an option...Once a program is loaded, it means that at one time you possessed the skill to understand it. If when your buffs wear off, you lose the ability to cast it. Why? You havent gotten any dumber and it doesnt disappear. How about implementing this formula n all nanos loaded. If you are missing say 30% of the skill, it will be 30% less effective. If it is an older program, and you have leveled since or gotten better buffs, the program would run more efficiently that it did earlier.
Im sorry if this makes too much sense...but come on!
I only hope that someone reads this and see the logic!FUNCOM..hint, hint!
Re: Corrected List (up to date)
Quote:
Originally posted by Drabin
This poll will get bigger. This poll is the offical poll of the OE part of this patch for the first 68 (SIXTY EIGHT) pages of the thread. This poll is current and up to date.
Erm okay how is most of this list NOT assumed?
If you want to poll, start a POLL, not just list assumptions please.
The not so official poll according to Maitrize
Quote:
(Positive) - Those that give a favorable remark or outright approve the OE part of the patch.
Quote:
(Negative) - Those that give an unfavorable remark or outright disapprove of the OE part of the patch.
Quote:
(Neutral) - Those that say nothing about the patch altogether, wish for further testing, or are neither for or against the OE part of the patch.
This poll will get bigger. This poll is the not so offical poll but just some thrown up banter that most people get categorized in by assumption. It is only in regard to the OE part of this patch for the first 68 (SIXTY EIGHT) pages of the thread. This poll is current and up to date.
(Positive) - 168 votes
(Negative) - 98 votes
(Neutral) - 112 votes
(Positive list)
Squick
Hoover
Eloy
Pangur
Kryos
MSag
Poteen
Intra
Drabin
Nightlord
MrTreatime
Erelius
Bionitrous
Psilock
n0th1ng
AIL leader
Stuckey
Blackwing
Corri_SOTA
Marthos
Terrorizer
Dr. Sent
Scorus
Omega
Sytrae
hideo2
onomastikon
ImaGideon
Szentisha
Katwon
Psilock
Jorl
Freedman
Darkbane
Magikha
Hextorr
Sarelron
Nalissa
Highttower
Edict
Kilrwavz
Nibiru
Paldorr
Thargon
Steroidjerk
dJOEk
Skybert
Deljin Blaed
Drenir
Mmore
Nakoda
Xephiroth
Templar Red
Pacifica
Psilex
Rawsan
Ionick
Shard
Fion
Muftak
Seoman
JohnMcClain
Ymodem-G
Akushin
Lichoon
Moondawg
Brad, STL/MO
Davedread
Cernix
Oldscotch
Snails
Siksi
Tekhead
Gigaquad
Netsapiens
Ponder
Puppetfinger
Charritty
Bully
Zuh
Qantaqa
Starbob
Fumar
Zargoslord
Thescotsman
Zwie
Tipai
Mikebond
General JinJinn
Whitedread
Gaspard
Doc against PvP
Chynn
Mirandia
Reppaz
Malkosha
Xyberviri
Spook
Lightining
ENF*isarugi
Lozer
VamphOzr
Camper
Skara
Bronto-Cowboy
nanomancer
Meka
Keisuki FD
Snublefot
Pencap
neurozic
Vrach
hexxia
hextorr
Lilith
CHILD
Silmaril
Chromatorg
Angelous0001
VIP1912
Croaker
Shadelore
Cheetra
Foul Ole Ron
Nikho
DeKida
Dogleg
MorphX
Sloth
Profusious
Striked
Exekius
Highway
Strikethree
DiVillian
Fotik
Canidy
D.Shaffer
Elria
Iceman
Nvrmore100
Killahsin
Cyberwiz
Tyger
RedSonja
Aimabel
Mimmi
Maephina
Dogberry545
Dorn B’Dinn
LucidTrance
ArAgOrN
Master Wong
Rexpen
Helise
AdvClown
Noq
Paganheart
EziSarious
Christopher
Yme
Troll
MrPendent
Ieungm
Thruthvang
Adolanabantz
Beastie
Crymcyn
(Negative List)
Pantheon
Darkphoenix
Wompla
MuCephi
Xylon
Thegrimblade
DJuxtapose
BigStrongGuy
max-iic
Tindish
Dareus
Scumbug
Arila
Baxie
Munti
Tjessem
Slinki
Rolller
Morgoth
Omniscient
DukeLeto
Julia Pomka
Zyxlquith
Marc
Ford Prefect
ArticZ
Subject IV
Rankin Dread
Jakespeed
Ironphist
Peekaboo
Teccer
Gokudan
Aaeleji
Fongsayyuk
Zeroshift
Mechrabbit
Wutto
Pete1010
Lord Cyrik
Sdloner
Smack
Usananoman
Crin
Don Fiendieloni
Ethanmonat
Phelisha
Skatty
Stifelife
Shizara
Suede
Xandru
heart of evil
Tsk
Demoncleaner
Urshulgi
Blade / Silki X
Celestiness
thatdangelf
reznoir
Junglerot
mahdi
Felix7
mephala
Mrbunny
Valis
Zarfon
Barron
Stickyspoonz
Ravencroft
Melcommish
Postier
Furyferret
Denaura
Donzilla
Lord iCeDrAgOn
Uziel
Painsmaiden
Greybear
Leviathan
Gemfire
Jeek500
Exmax
KIRTAP
Zhubarb
Its-me
Entrap
Hafenbraut
Wirus
Seppo
Boogiebum
Dogmatize
DrCam
Silent
Anisotropic
Maitrize
Raysight
Dark_Omen
(Neutral List)
Starknaked
Cloud
Azzazzimon
Nitewolf
Valdus
Dropcid
Urshu
Defjam
Kirrana
WGMelchior
Evilglitch
ryu1313
Lord Nemesis
Takuan
RoboKa
Miriandel
Snarf
Besheba
Moodyman
Arcanian
Penguin
Arinia
Dscoper
Vandame
Zuleica
Fingers
Cbehrens40
Xtremtech
Orion
Alkanphel
grahamX0r
Cub
Cat
Selfished
Senator-jesse
Pneuma
Machievelli
Jackswift
Jentai
Halbundy
Ecce
Gavalon
Yme
MrGumby
Forth
daVinci
Thral
Halcyinv2
Utrilla
Eliteskillz
Ulala
[Crispy Chicken]
Skyxxis
Damion666
maxenhancements
killahsin
Tek
Matilades
Oshikai
Shandrilar
Anglais
Morloyck
Sensei
Stabber
Avatarius
Medwar
x-genesis
kijiko
cerbius-trader
Cheese
doctorearl
war
Cadelite
stercoral
nanogater
Spacegipsy
kaiousama
Glotock
Jodocast
Nzime
Bauxite
Bartleby
Nerdboy
Muni
Rentrenegade
Griemdall
Sadie
Vespucci
Maligant
Vicktor
Talonpheonix
Relic
Xylon
Hawx
LordHelmchen
Lanasia
Diu
Oniko
Metabolism
Spambastard
Maximilian
Xaeberane
Aurorae
Mara
Ripple of Soul
Ultra1
Turbulence
Carlsberg
Freedmen
Marleen
Krui
Sernon*-)
STOP SPAMMING THIS LIST WITH YOUR POLL
there, that's said
Drabin, your poll is entirely assumption, based on hearsay and your faulty interpretations of peoples' responses on this thread.
Additionally, I find your use of your snub DrCam in your sig offensive. STOP with the poll. its not helping. its just making the thread longer
Re: What could make me change my mind?
Quote:
Originally posted by ethanmonat
I was just browsing around as the servers were down for the second time TODAY, and thinking about the patch. I realised that no it won't matter what level equipment you can put on , because even if you are level 1 and somehow manage to shoehorn in QL200 equipment, due to the 20%/-25% formula, that piece of QL200 equipments acts like a piece of QL1 equipment. Well, FC, lets carry this out to it's logical conclusion. If I have a weapon, let's say some sort of laser rifle, and I don't deal as much damage with it because I don't understand how to use it,(being OE'd), then once I gain the nessicary skill to use it correctly, my damage output goes up with it(Being 0% OE'd). Now when my skill goes to 20% above that laser rifle's nominal requirements, shoudln't my damage output increase 25%(Being 20% UE'd)? If I've got this rifle, and at first I can't use it because the rifle scope is computerised, and I don't know how to reload it quickly, when my skill increases with it, why shoudln't I go BEYOND it's normal damage output? Suddenly, I know everything there is to know about the weapon, I can aim and fire it so quickly it's like a natural reaction rahter than a thought about action. I know the scope's deficencies, and I can adjust for that, I know which parts of the body are more suceptible to the type of laser that rifle fires out, I know how to compensate for gravity bending the laser, etc. in short, why not get rid of the equipment QL thing altogether? Just shove it out the door, we don't need it. Instead, get a different sort of statistic based on nominal damage for a weapon and then increase it or decrease it as the skills used by that weapon increases or decreases. instead of having
dmg 10-180(94)
martial arts 500
brawl 230
1h blunt 380
dimach 140
, cut out the skill requirments. Just have
Skills required:martial arts, brawl, 1h blunt, dimach. Base damage: 10-42(12).
Have each weapon's damage output change using a formula calculated on a character's level, and their skills in the required fields. If you're going to make this big of a change in the game limiting how good equipment an person can have, fix it so it's equal for people underequiped as people overequiped.
And I don't want to hear "Oh, you have bought a renewing subscription" again from the GMs like that means I am pleased with the game. I've bought one because I planned on playing for a few months and I didn't want to have to go pay every month.
now that actually makes sense.
now how come funcom cant think like this?
Not knocking you Dark_Omen
Not knocking you Dark_Omen. Like I said (most). And yes that is the best generalization a person can give. I saw nothing wrong with your posts at all.