2 hour MP pets=finally lower reqs on engi pets?

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Dec 4th, 2008, 23:21:26
Berael

Quote:

Originally Posted by snakeyees

Ok im for lowering requirements. If this happens

Eng are the Only pet profession that gets their 220 pet with out jumping through hoops like Mp's and crats/ (Biodome any one) Eng should have to Build the nano for all their pets, Eng should have collect 50 parts and assemble said parts into a nano. That would be more inline with what an Engineer is.

I could roll with this if it was only our top pet. If you look at the old ideas on how the kamikaze pets were going to work, you actually had to go get their corpse, rebuild it, take a picture of it and than build the nano formula from scratch. A pretty cool project for any tradeskill happy engineer. I wouldn't have many issues having to go into an inferno catacomb, kill a widowmaker, repair it, rewire it, make the nano formula for it, and than build the nano crystal. Sounds like fun actually.

If it was for every engineer pet though... i'd have to insist that every MP has to go meditate on their personal anger in different places on RK and SL to make their nanos and Crats would have to do reams of idiotic paper work for the chance to request their new pet nanos.
Dec 4th, 2008, 23:55:56
Uaintseenme

Been away for a week, someone (thats not klod) please sum up the last 7 pages for me, cos im not reading all of that ranting.
Dec 5th, 2008, 00:40:00
Technogen

You'd just be better off ignoring it, it's just the same old same old.

Work on getting the top buffs to be no higher then the widow and you'll be ok.
Dec 5th, 2008, 12:42:45
Swordbreaker

The MPs are such a nasty bunch of people. They'll claw their way into their own little annoyances with threads full of "bump lol" level stuff (because they find it too difficult to recast a single pet in the middle of a fight while teaming), but when we ask for the same consideration (hay could we cut through the craptons of nanoskill items/perks needed to do stuff plx) after they've gotten their request through, they go leeroy on us. Well, MPs and a Hacre, who only assaults everyone else's interests just like the MPs.

In the forums, MP stands for "Malignant People". :(

For all the 30 second buhuhuu wait for your pet every 30 mins (omg) that the Engineers didn't have to go through, you always seem to forget that the Engineer would have to still go through the same swapping (outside BS now) he would otherwise if his pets go boomity and he has to resort on the shells and he's in a serious combat setup (not to mention what they'd have to get through to recast all the new baffs and whatnot once the pets go down). Sure, it doesn't apply to my Engineer, but that's because I can't really be assed to constantly swap and just keep all the nanoskill equip on at all times. And as such, I don't really kill people in PvP. :p I can still sympathize with my fellow combat Engineers, however, and I do think that they do deserve an easier life.

But why are the MPs so much against all this? I bet it's something like this from their perspective: Because MPs get their pets from Biodome, they think they should have pets that live long (they got/are getting that), low reqs (they have had that ever since they got their pets), are pretty damn good (have that no matter what they say), while Engineers get their pets from a shop so buhuu obviously it has to be worse in every way (even if it doesn't really apply to one of our pets anymore, which still has higher reqs than the bestest MP pest)... And so on. You see, I think they forgot how to get out of the whole whining mode after they got out of their so called "dark times". Now it's all about "moar moar moar for me, less less less for u". :( And it will be like that until the end of time (or some FC employee finally makes it impossible to post without an unfrozen subscription).

And I thought they said they'd support an Engineer initiative to get the nanoskills lowered in their own LONGER EM PEE PETS thread plx (especially if MPs get their longer lived pests). I'M NOT SEEING MUCH SUPPORTING OUT HERE GUYS.
Dec 5th, 2008, 12:56:38
Hacre

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordbreaker-

Well, MPs and a Hacre, who only assaults everyone else's interests just like the MPs.

I'd be very impressed if you can point out where I'm trolling Engineers.
Dec 5th, 2008, 13:11:24
Klodovik

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordbreaker-

...but when we ask for the same consideration...

Except you don't. We can't affect our pets duration time, you, however can affect your setup not to require swapping for casting them.

P.S.
Hacre, stop trolling engies, you SoB. :rolleyes:
Dec 5th, 2008, 13:21:58
Swordbreaker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hacre

I'd be very impressed if you can point out where I'm trolling Engineers.

You are trolling Engineers by the way of coming in here and start aiding and abetting the very trolls who always come into Engineer threads with their own incessant whines. The best part is that they oftentimes go "GO AWAI MAKE YOUR OWN THREAD ABOUT THAT AND WE'LL SUPPORT IT" when you get into their threads about MP related goodies and start voicing your concerns as to how it will affect the balance of chaos, but when you do just that all you get is RAGE and trolling from those people. Because obviously it's just a jab against the MP profeshun rather than a serious concern of any kind.

Seriously. Obviously this kind of tactic works as not only have MPs become rather awesome but they still get little additions like 2 hour timers (that they did not need), which in turn disproves your entire point of it not working. :|
Dec 5th, 2008, 13:34:14
Swordbreaker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klod

Except you don't. We can't affect our pets duration time, you, however can affect your setup not to require swapping for casting them.

Bah. You can affect the timing of the pet's downtime in PvM (/pet "The Rihwen" terminate, ever heard of it?). And through the first example, you can make your pet go down when you actually have time to cast it rather than when your entire team is running into the next spot (I've found that there's often time when the team is fighting multiple monsters, weird, isn't it). You will lose some damage in the process (as would a crat recasting Carlo), but so will an Engineer that is in the process of swapping through tons of crap to cast something or the Engineer that sticks to full nanoskill gear (which you won't have to do).

And of course, you could have affected the pet's duration by not choosing a profession that had such timers in the first place if it was such a horrible problem for you. :p Based on your forum join time, you should've known that the Rihwen had a short timer when you got anywhere near getting it.

:rolleyes:

What about PvP (outside BS)? An Engineer has as much control over the deaths of his/her pets as an MP or a crat does in PvP. There 30 mins is ample time. There an Engineer running in nanoskill gear to cast everything will not hit anyone with anything except the pets, unless they get stuck in lol inaction. There an Engineer will be forced to go through tons of swapping if he wants to hit stuff and use pets.

Etcetera.
Dec 5th, 2008, 13:45:43
Hacre

So, not necessarily agreeing with someone who has an Engineer, or offering comments to bring a bit more balance between all the pet professions as a whole, is trolling.

Right. :rolleyes:

I even apologised to an engineer when I got some info wrong. GDIAF.
Dec 5th, 2008, 14:35:23
Swordbreaker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hacre

So, not necessarily agreeing with someone who has an Engineer,

You were agreeing with an MP trolling in a thread about lowering Engineer pet reqs. That is different from "not necessarily agreeing with an Engineer". You would consider me a troll if I went into a "NERF NTS" thread and said, "yes I agree with your stance mister Nerf NTs man", now wouldn't you?

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or offering comments to bring a bit more balance between all the pet professions as a whole, is trolling.

Doing so on the behalf of the trolls would be considered trolling, yes. And since when did you become, mister NT/Keeper lord and protector, who spews/-ed hatred against all who said a negative word about those professions, a qualified pet profession suggestion giver? :I I'm sure you would love me suggesting whatever somewhat negative that comes to mind for NTs/Kippurs as well.

And where were you with your suggestions when the MPs (and prolly crats) were getting their "own half" of the deal? Nowhere, that's where!

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I even apologised to an engineer when I got some info wrong.

And that makes you what, a saint? :p

Basically all I see that you've done in this thread is saying no to the lowered reqs, agreeing with trolls and giving "suggestions" that we should just man it up and it's A-OK that MPs and Crats get rid of their lil annoyances while Engies don't.

As someone who has had a level 220 crat for, what, 2 years, I gotta say that the whole 30 min thing's annoyingness has been exaggerated beyond belief. Sure, 2 hours would have been nice, but it's far from required, especially when your other pet(s) is(/are) going to stick around for a lot longer. And I've spoken to quite a few MPs who agree that it's not really all that annoying. For many it seems to be a "don't care, but won't say 'no' to free stuff" kind of deal. All you need is a few vocal ones...

What I don't get is how it's just forum MPs (and a couple of crats) that don't seem to understand the whole "MPs and Crats get longer living pets" should mean "Engineers get lowered reqs" thing. It's been used as a reasoning against lowered Engi pet reqs for years, and as someone already pointed out was even semi-confirmed to be true officially by a professional. :I And hell, these same people said they'd support lowered engi pet reqs if they were to get longer lived pets.

Oh yes, and a Thank You for Slakrr, Phargus, crattey, eroz_c and others for their BATTLE SUPPOOORT!
Dec 5th, 2008, 15:07:25
Klodovik

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordbreaker-

Bah. You can affect the timing of the pet's downtime in PvM (/pet "The Rihwen" terminate, ever heard of it?). And through the first example, you can make your pet go down when you actually have time to cast it rather than when your entire team is running into the next spot (I've found that there's often time when the team is fighting multiple monsters, weird, isn't it). You will lose some damage in the process (as would a crat recasting Carlo), but so will an Engineer that is in the process of swapping through tons of crap to cast something or the Engineer that sticks to full nanoskill gear (which you won't have to do).

And of course, you could have affected the pet's duration by not choosing a profession that had such timers in the first place if it was such a horrible problem for you. :p Based on your forum join time, you should've known that the Rihwen had a short timer when you got anywhere near getting it.

:rolleyes:

What about PvP (outside BS)? An Engineer has as much control over the deaths of his/her pets as an MP or a crat does in PvP. There 30 mins is ample time. There an Engineer running in nanoskill gear to cast everything will not hit anyone with anything except the pets, unless they get stuck in lol inaction. There an Engineer will be forced to go through tons of swapping if he wants to hit stuff and use pets.

Etcetera.

Ha, ha! Thanks for the laughs, especialy at the start of your post. Priceless. :)

BTW, you engies constantly asuring other people that your need to swap countless things for casting pets/buffs, so you can perform well at PvP is as true as me stating that I need full CSS set to reliably use Tigress at PvP.

And that's why we (MPs?) are mocking you. We know that you refuse to do sacrifices and we know that most of you are just spoiled brats that got used to get stuff served on a silver platter (which now got replaced by, teh horror - porcelain one).

P.S.
BTW, I'm for increased pet cast requirements for crats and MPs, now when we gonna get 2 hour ones. :)
Dec 5th, 2008, 15:51:48
Hacre

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordbreaker-

You were agreeing with an MP trolling in a thread about lowering Engineer pet reqs. That is different from "not necessarily agreeing with an Engineer". You would consider me a troll if I went into a "NERF NTS" thread and said, "yes I agree with your stance mister Nerf NTs man", now wouldn't you?

That depends. If the person you were agreeing with had a point, no. Check out threads where people have asked for CB to have duration lowered and made removable with a virus scanner. You'll find me agreeing.

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Originally Posted by Swordbreaker-

Doing so on the behalf of the trolls would be considered trolling, yes. And since when did you become, mister NT/Keeper lord and protector, who spews/-ed hatred against all who said a negative word about those professions, a qualified pet profession suggestion giver? :I I'm sure you would love me suggesting whatever somewhat negative that comes to mind for NTs/Kippurs as well.

I guess you have signatures turned off or just can't read. I have a 220 Crat, thanks.

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Originally Posted by Swordbreaker-

And where were you with your suggestions when the MPs (and prolly crats) were getting their "own half" of the deal? Nowhere, that's where!

Happy that the annoying 30 minute pet duration was being improved.

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Originally Posted by Swordbreaker-

And that makes you what, a saint? :p

No, it means I'm not something you're accusing me of being; A troll against Engineers for the sake of it.

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Originally Posted by Swordbreaker-

Basically all I see that you've done in this thread is saying no to the lowered reqs, agreeing with trolls and giving "suggestions" that we should just man it up and it's A-OK that MPs and Crats get rid of their lil annoyances while Engies don't.

That's because, as OTHER ENGINEERS have said, the PET requirements on Engineer pets is fine. It's the stupid requirements on buffs (especially isotos) that needs to be changed. Oh look, I made a suggestion favouring Engineers in this thread and not for the first time, either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordbreaker-

As someone who has had a level 220 crat for, what, 2 years, I gotta say that the whole 30 min thing's annoyingness has been exaggerated beyond belief. Sure, 2 hours would have been nice, but it's far from required, especially when your other pet(s) is(/are) going to stick around for a lot longer. And I've spoken to quite a few MPs who agree that it's not really all that annoying. For many it seems to be a "don't care, but won't say 'no' to free stuff" kind of deal. All you need is a few vocal ones...

2 hours is far from required? Raid much 42 do you? Or do you only do Inferno missions with teams that can complete them in under 30 minutes, hards included? I couldn't give a crap about 30 minute pet duration, if they were instacast. They're not. Carlo isn't even instacast in the BS buffing room because of a stupid cast cap. YOU might not find recasting and rebuffing a pet every 30 minutes annoying, however I and many other crats/MPs do. I only have to do it once with Carlo, I can't imagine how mind numbingly annoying it must be for MPs that have to do it for how many, 2? 3?

Also, if recasting/rebuffing pets isn't annoying, how come engineers go so bats**t crazy when people insist on killing their pets on the BS? I'll tell you why: BECAUSE RECASTING AND REBUFFING PETS IS ANNOYING.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordbreaker-

What I don't get is how it's just forum MPs (and a couple of crats) that don't seem to understand the whole "MPs and Crats get longer living pets" should mean "Engineers get lowered reqs" thing. It's been used as a reasoning against lowered Engi pet reqs for years, and as someone already pointed out was even semi-confirmed to be true officially by a professional. :I And hell, these same people said they'd support lowered engi pet reqs if they were to get longer lived pets.

No disrespect intended, but given a lot of the posts I've seen made by various professionals on these forums (not just the Engi ones), I'll take anything a professional says with a pinch of salt, thanks. Semi-confirmed? What's that?

What troll squad says is a reason for nano requirements does not equal FC's reasoning for higher requirements. I'll say again, in AGREEMENT WITH OTHER ENGINEERS IN THIS THREAD your pet requirements aren't the problem, the pet buffs are. There's a lot of disparity with pet buffs in this game and they all need sorting out. For example:

Crat pet buffs last even less time than some of the Engineer ones. While they can be self cast, they still chew nano and it's annoying. This should be fixed.

MPs and Crats cannot get the same root/snare/calm resist for their pets as Engineers can. Is this a reasoning for higher requirements on Engi pet buffs, because you get more out of them? Who knows, but it is unfair and annoying. This should be fixed.

Carlo cannot be buffed in the way that other pets can, therefore in a PvP environment he doesn't even get benefit from the crappy root/calm/snare/charm resistance that CEO does. This is annoying and should be fixed.

Widowmaker seems to have the worst pathing out of all the other pets past and present. I know how annoying I find it when my pets get stuck somewhere, it must be mind numbing for it to be worse for Engineers. This should be fixed. At least they stopped Widow from healing what it was hitting though, finally.

You also appear to forget, that the permanent pet benefit doesn't just apply at 220. Earlier level Engineer twinks are easier to make than crats and MPs, because unlike an Engineer, Crats and MPs have to go OB hunting every time the pet despawns. Engineers just have to keep their skills within OE rules once the thing is cast.

Oh and before I forget, Engineer pet buffs have retardedly high requirements on them. This is annoying I'm sure and should be fixed.

Games are supposed to be fun, not arbitrarily annoying.

Why doesn't an extra 1.5 hours on MP/Crat pets mean an automatic requirement lowering for Engineers? Well because troll squad arguments are hardly solid, that's why they're called trolls. The two are also completely unrelated. If MP and Crat pets were made permanent I'd totally see an argument in favour of Engineers having a much easier life with their pets.

But then again that brings us back to the retarded requirements on the BUFFS and not the pets themselves, right?
Dec 5th, 2008, 15:54:03
Swordbreaker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klod

Ha, ha! Thanks for the laughs, especialy at the start of your post. Priceless. :)

Yes, the truth is priceless, isn't it. You're just a whiny dork who thinks he should get everything. :(

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BTW, you engies constantly asuring other people that your need to swap countless things for casting pets/buffs,

Because those that actually PvP do need it, unless, of course, you want Engineers to run around in full nanoskill equip at all times and thus kill off any chances to hit anything. Makes perfect sense if you think about it a little.

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so you can perform well at PvP is as true as me stating that I need full CSS set to reliably use Tigress at PvP.

And an Engineer would also need a full set of CSS as well to perform reliably at PvP with any of those weapons that Engineers are any good with these days. Weird, innit.

See, that's the thing. If you run around in nanoskill equip, you can forget about hitting anyone with anything but your pets (this is what I do). If you run around in combat equip, you can forget about your pets.

Thus, you need to swap, if you want to be anything but a spec blocker pole.

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And that's why we (MPs?) are mocking you.

Says the "buhuu 30 mins is too short :(" guy. Yeah, mock away. And make me smile a little longer.

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We know that you refuse to do sacrifices

Yes, we know, that's why there are Dshark Engineers, REC3 Engineers and so forth that sacrifice much of what it is to be Engineer to be effective. Because Engineers refuse to do sacrifices. :(

So, what are you sacrificing yourself to be an effective MP? You have low nanoskill reqs, you have low reqs on your weapon, now you'll have all of your pets live long etc. Hmm. Is that a "nothing" I hear?

Oh God, YES it IS!

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and we know that most of you are just spoiled brats

So we're the spoiled brats, huh? I guess that makes you the guy that got rich overnight and went NUTS.

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that got used to get stuff served on a silver platter (which now got replaced by, teh horror - porcelain one).

I can't remember that many times that Engineers actually got stuff served on a silver platter. It always looked more like a case of Engineers looking at the silver platter of Soldiers (and various other professions) and sneaking stuff out of there, making them rather awesome while sacrificing much of their Engineerdom.

Yeah, we're damn lucky so many weapons that were obviously meant for other professions had no profession locks. I bet you could've done the same, but YOU JUST WEREN'T WILLING TO DO THE SACFIRICE. :( :( :( :(

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P.S.
BTW, I'm for increased pet cast requirements for crats and MPs, now when we gonna get 2 hour ones. :)

So, what made you change your mind there? You were OH NOES over this before as well.

Ofc, comparatively, MPs would need a higher increase than Crats because of their innate ability to have craploads more nanoskills.
Dec 5th, 2008, 16:13:35
Ellarisa

personally i dont much care about the req on our pets (dog is a lil high imo, but i can live with it).
what does annoy me though is the fact that 2 of our top pet buffs have higher reqs then our pets. maybe instead of yall b!tching about getting pet reqs lowered, try getting buff reqs lowered first? cause even if they pull pet reqs down by 500 MC/TS you'll still be swapping just as much to get em ready for combat (SL reflects and init buff still require 2147 MC/TS ya know)
imo it would be a much bigger improvement to try get the reqs of those 2 lowered instead of the req on pets.
another one that could use a drop is the MM req on isotos (not sure about the MC part, but i think i have that) getting a drop of about 60 points would be perfect for me personally.
at the moment if i have CM i have to do 3 swaps to buff up completly (research hud, CR and infused nano enhancer)
if i dont want to bother with gift i can do it with 2 swaps (research and infused nano enhancer)
so if they dropped the req of those 2 nanos to the same as the dog it would mean for me personally that i would only have to do 1 swap if i have CM ( not 100% sure on this one) or 2 swaps if i had just CI (my own mp doesnt have cm yet :) )
to recast isotos in combat i have to do 1 swap (with cm) atm (research hud) cause i'm 60ish points short in MM atm (no left arm symb hurts) so dropping this maybe 60-75 points would be perfect :)

oh and can we get the nanocost of the pets reduced please? at the moment i have to refill my nanopool 5 times to completly buff myself and my pets

all this is if i have CM or CI running, dont even get me started on how much i have to swap if i dont :p

another option is to give us the following buffs:
- Technogen's missing eye (40 MM/MC/TS, MC/TS req, mid lvl quest maybe :p )
- Technogen's other eye (100 MM/MC/TS, MC/TS req, 215+ lock? )
- Composite Alcoydel's gift (140 MM/MC/TS, MM/MC req, 215+ lock)
ofcourse all of it self only, or target lvl locked. yes i am willing to do a bunsh of quests for it :p

about the whiny mp's and co:
- being for increasing pet cast reqs cause the timer goes up as an mp is complete B*llsh!t. you guys would raise hell if FC did that.
- try being consistent in your opinions please? one moment you say, sure we'll support it if we get bigger pet timer; and now you're saying hell no, it's completly unrelated!
- instead of moaning about the timer on the whiner, maybe try get FC to fix heal pet so it doesn't despawn in the middle of a fight? (has happened to me quite a bit in the past and has gotten me killed) or did they fix this? seems more of an issue to me then whiner despawning when timer runs out and when it's not in a fight imo
- the 30 seconds cast time every 30 minutes isn't all that annoying imo. i spend 5+ minutes casting and buffing my pets after they went down or after logging on. guess how many people wait for me to finish buffing before a mish or raid (private) or w/e.
- i know i know, i should stfu about mp's cause mine aint 220 yet, but i'm working on it!

conclusion: i wouldnt mind the reqs being lowered, would rather have buff reqs be lowered, but i can live with it if it's not.
Greetings,

Ellarisa

PS: at all the a$$holes that were laughing at me for my style of posting: i hope you get castrated with a spoon, go die.
PPS: sorry for the messy post, i just wrote what came to my mind and what i think
Dec 5th, 2008, 16:45:35
Swordbreaker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hacre

That depends. If the person you were agreeing with had a point, no. Check out threads where people have asked for CB to have duration lowered and made removable with a virus scanner. You'll find me agreeing.

Oh, I remember threads where people had their points and you were against them. :p cba to actually go through all the threads, however, not for something as stupid as this.

No point getting any further in this anyway.

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I guess you have signatures turned off or just can't read. I have a 220 Crat, thanks.

Yeah, yeah. And I've had a TL7 Keeper for quite some time now which I haven't marked in my sig. However, having a 220 crat (I have one too!) doesn't make you a master of Engineerdom.

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Happy that the annoying 30 minute pet duration was being improved.

Yeah. And there still were people of the Engineer profession saying that if you get this, you do realize that this means the end of the good old excuse of Engineers having high reqs because of the duration?

Klod did back then. Klod does not now, however. But that is because he is Emperor of the AO Forums Trollkind.

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No, it means I'm not something you're accusing me of being; A troll against Engineers for the sake of it.

That's not what I accused you of. I accused you of being a troll for "fighting" for the cause of the trolls (no lowered pet reqs plox). :p There's a difference!

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That's because, as OTHER ENGINEERS have said, the PET requirements on Engineer pets is fine.

I, as someone with a level 220 crat, say that a 30 min Carlo was fine. I had a bunch of MPs tell me that 30 min Rihwen was fine, too. Just because a few people say something doesn't mean that everyone agrees, now does it?

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It's the stupid requirements on buffs (especially isotos) that needs to be changed.

ISOTOS has the reqs of 1965 MM and 2046 MC. Does this mean you also want pet requirements (Widowmaker's got 2046 MC 2041 TS reqs) lowered and the requirements of GoA (which has a 2051 MM 2046 MC req)?

Yes please!

Note that the NEW DOG has MC/TS reqs of 2109. Formula 22 has 2147 MC/TS reqs, as does the 7 team recharging spec blockers and the pet reflects. I personally think that all those things should be lowered as well with the Widowmaker's requirements, which, funnily enough, still are quite high even with all the new nanoskill items, research and so forth. Unless you happen to be like me and run around in nanoskill gear and nanoskill perks. :p

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Oh look, I made a suggestion favouring Engineers in this thread and not for the first time, either.

Indeed you did.

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2 hours is far from required?

Yes.

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Raid much 42 do you?

No. But I still can't see it as much of anything else than a slight annoyance you had to work with. Sort of like how you have to take into account the high reqs of baffs as an Engineer when you go off doing something, and the possibility of your pets dying and having to recast everything all over again.

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Or do you only do Inferno missions with teams that can complete them in under 30 minutes, hards included?

No. I have done many mishes that took over 30 mins and got through it just fine with my crat. Timing is everything as they say.

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I couldn't give a crap about 30 minute pet duration, if they were instacast.

Heh. If they were instacast, it'd be the same as having infinite shells.

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They're not.

Indeed. Because then you'd have something comparable to infinite shells.

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Carlo isn't even instacast in the BS buffing room because of a stupid cast cap.

Yes, funny, isn't it. Then again, you can at least be comforted by watching the Engineer go through tons of swapping just to recast all his stuff while you're stuck recasting Carlo. :p

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YOU might not find recasting and rebuffing a pet every 30 minutes annoying, however I and many other crats/MPs do.

Many other MPs and crats don't. And as an added bonus, Crats don't even have to really rebuff Carlo.

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I only have to do it once with Carlo, I can't imagine how mind numbingly annoying it must be for MPs that have to do it for how many, 2? 3?

What? Their other pets have 2-3 hour timers as far as I know.

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Also, if recasting/rebuffing pets isn't annoying, how come engineers go so bats**t crazy when people insist on killing their pets on the BS?

Remember the reqs on everything that require lots of swapping?

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I'll tell you why: BECAUSE RECASTING AND REBUFFING PETS IS ANNOYING.

Yes, it is. Remember the reqs?

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Semi-confirmed? What's that?

Probably guy saying "Hey could we get lower reqs" some guy saying "no", the guy saying "Is it because of this?" and some guy saying a vague "yes".

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What troll squad says is a reason for nano requirements does not equal FC's reasoning for higher requirements.

Indeed. But this is not a reasoning just coming from troll squads, either. It's been used by perfectly reasonable people as well. I don't think Klod was even around when it was being used against the Engineer profession already.

Neither was I, but still.

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I'll say again, in AGREEMENT WITH OTHER ENGINEERS IN THIS THREAD your pet requirements aren't the problem, the pet buffs are.

I'm saying both are. That's the difference.

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Crat pet buffs last even less time than some of the Engineer ones. While they can be self cast, they still chew nano and it's annoying. This should be fixed.

Corporate Strategy, Droid Damage Matrix and whatnot are awesome. I've never had a problem with the nano eating ability of them, however. Then again, my crat is a nanomage and I have lots of -nanocost stuff on. After years of using SOTOS, these things actually seemed long lived (har har). :p

See, you find both your pet's duration and the duration of the buffs you use on one of them annoying. I find both the requirements on my pets and the reqs of my buffs annoying. We aren't that different after all!

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MPs and Crats cannot get the same root/snare/calm resist for their pets as Engineers can.

But you can use the Pet Attention nanos and whatnot, so it's nearly a moot point. And an Engineer is going to be having trouble with the pet's NCU because of all the stuff he has to cast on the pets, so it somewhat balances this issue out.

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Is this a reasoning for higher requirements on Engi pet buffs, because you get more out of them?

Would be a stupid reason if you ask me. Especially since MPs get a ton of great baffs for their attack pet.

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Who knows, but it is unfair and annoying. This should be fixed.

Indeed.

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Carlo cannot be buffed in the way that other pets can,

Yes, this sucks tons, even with how awesome Carlo otherwise is.

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This is annoying and should be fixed.

I agree.

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Widowmaker seems to have the worst pathing out of all the other pets past and present.

I hear they fixed this, although I still see the Widowmaker running off to his own business at times. A lot more than I see Carlo do it, anyway. But it's a lot less than before.

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This should be fixed. At least they stopped Widow from healing what it was hitting though, finally.

Yeah, that healing thing is what you get for leaving mob related issues to a pet. :p

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You also appear to forget, that the permanent pet benefit doesn't just apply at 220.

True.

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Earlier level Engineer twinks are easier to make than crats and MPs,

In the case of Crats, yes, it's true, but crats get exp adding stuff and so forth that make them desirable in teams. MPs can self buff themselves to funny places. It's a whole lot easier to make a self buffed totw twink MP than an Engineer, for instance. In fact, I have one. Biggest difference between my ex-Totw twink Engi and my current MP one is that th MP doesn't have to buff beg at all.

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because unlike an Engineer, Crats and MPs have to go OB hunting every time the pet despawns.

Crats, yes, MPs can do a lot of things selfed that Engineers and Crats can pretty much only dream of on lower levels.

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Engineers just have to keep their skills within OE rules once the thing is cast.

Which, if you're really twinking, often means buff begging all over again, thus making the permanency only that good. :p

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Oh and before I forget, Engineer pet buffs have retardedly high requirements on them. This is annoying I'm sure and should be fixed.

Indeed.

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Games are supposed to be fun, not arbitrarily annoying.

Yes. That is why I think that pet buffs and the pets themselves have too high requirements. Well, the end-game ones do, the earlier pets don't really. At least the Slayerdroid is just that good when compared to the other pets of its level.

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Why doesn't an extra 1.5 hours on MP/Crat pets mean an automatic requirement lowering for Engineers? Well because troll squad arguments are hardly solid, that's why they're called trolls.

Does not mean we can't ask for it, however. Who knows, the devs might actually listen and stuff. One would think that with lowered pet requirements would come lowered buff requirements as well.

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The two are also completely unrelated.

Not necessarily. They might be, or they might not be. It all depends on how the devs will react to our request.

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If MP and Crat pets were made permanent I'd totally see an argument in favour of Engineers having a much easier life with their pets.

Thing is, two hours in most cases is nearly the same as permanency. No mish is going to take two hours. Very few raids are going to take two hours. Having to recast pets while not doing anything vs not having to recast them is a moot point. As an Engineer, I often end up just terminating my pets when I don't need them anyway.

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But then again that brings us back to the retarded requirements on the BUFFS and not the pets themselves, right?

Retarded requirements on both! :p
Dec 5th, 2008, 17:15:44
Hacre

Just to point out your comment to my Sector 42 question, Swordbreaker..

Unlike Pande where you get breaks after each island, no such thing exists at Sector 42. Fast respawns dictates that you have to be constantly moving and in a properly distributed personnel environment like good 42 raids are, I can cast Carlo at the start and maybe after the fence into the boss area at North/East/West. Carlo is often long gone by then.

Even so, having to look for a "standing still for at least 20 seconds during this raid" opportunity to cast a new pet, instead of just dealing damage and debuffing mobs, is stupid. It is beyond stupid. It isn't justified any further by you or anyone else saying "but I think 30 minutes is fine".

Again I'll put up my hands and say I thought isotos was a higher requirement than the pets, a much higher requirement.

I still think, however, you'll get more mileage out of FC by saying "We have a problem with our pet requirements and here is why <list of things/how Engineers have evolved/state of Engineers today>" instead of pointing out what another profession(s) gets and using that as a justification for your own.

I highly doubt MP/Crat pet duration has been extended because Engineer pets are infinite. I'm quite sure it is because people whined, bitched and pointed out just how retarded 30 minute duration is.

Oh I also pointed out that I have a 220 Crat, because you made some mention about me having any sort of clue when it comes to PET professions. Of which, Crat is one.
Dec 5th, 2008, 17:34:50
Technogen

Well it's hit or miss with the request itself. If you go "hey can we get our requirements lowered this patch." they may go "I dont see any reason to." but if we go "hey they got this can we get this." they may go "Oh they have a point let me think about this."

The human mind thinks about things more when offered two things then one thing. Example, "Do you Hacre, want an apple or an orange?" Now this makes you think about the two items instead of one or the other. If I had gone "Do you Hacre, want an apple." or "Do you Hacre, want an orange." you would not have thought about the benefits of the other, only the one I offered you.
Dec 5th, 2008, 17:46:56
Swordbreaker

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Originally Posted by Hacre

JUnlike Pande where you get breaks after each island, no such thing exists at Sector 42.

So, if I understand this correctly, this is one instance in the entire game where it's actually a real problem for both MPs and Crats rather than a bit of an annoying little quirk. :p

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Fast respawns

Just how fast are they? Don't you have time to just pick a new target before the earlier target dies and thus get around the timer a little bit longer?

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I can cast Carlo at the start and maybe after the fence into the boss area at North/East/West.

You know, as per Klod's "BUUHUU U NO MAEK SACRIFICES U EVIL ENGIES" whinage, obviously this is a sacrifice you had to do before they figured they'd switch it to 2 hours. :p No Carlo/Rihwen = less damage by you, unless you take a risk and recast anyway when your group has run into a new bunch of repops. Or something.

Klod, so who doesn't wanna make sacrifices because of their chosen profession, again...?

No offense meant to you, Hacre. :p

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Even so, having to look for a "standing still for at least 20 seconds during this raid" opportunity to cast a new pet, instead of just dealing damage and debuffing mobs, is stupid.

Kloooood.... Who doesn't wanna do sacrifices, agaiiiin?

Don't take that sacrifice stuff as a jab against you, Hacre, because I haven't seen you going on about Engies not wanting to do sacrifices.

Yeah, I know it's gonna be annoying when you gotta do that. It's below "lol swap tons of stuff to recast whatever because your pet bit it" sort of annoying, but it's still annoying. I get that.

(The dog has a bad habit of biting it very easily, thus making its infinite timer a moot point)

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It is beyond stupid. It isn't justified any further by you or anyone else saying "but I think 30 minutes is fine".

Sort of like how the high pet/buff requirements aren't justified any further by any of these folks saying "but I think these high reqs are fine." :p

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Again I'll put up my hands and say I thought isotos was a higher requirement than the pets, a much higher requirement.

ISOTOS used to have higher requirements than the pets by a whole lot. It was the only thing we got lowered by instantly striking with incessant whinery. The rest went through just fine even though we DID whine about them as well. :(

For some reason certain elements within FC seem to think that fixing age old mistakes is a perfectly good place to add insane reqs.

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I still think, however, you'll get more mileage out of FC by saying "We have a problem with our pet requirements and here is why <list of things/how Engineers have evolved/state of Engineers today>" instead of pointing out what another profession(s) gets and using that as a justification for your own.

What? You think that'll work? Even MPs got their longer timers with just a thread that started with what basically amounts to "gief longer timer/instacast or I won't play my MP ever again!"

And seriously man. Pet reqs are a thing Engineers have been whining about for years. Much longer than MPs and crats have managed to whine about timers (in part simply because the Widowmaker is older than Carlo and Rihwen). And there hasn't been any change.

Obviously truly incessant whining works better than well argumented positions!

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I highly doubt MP/Crat pet duration has been extended because Engineer pets are infinite.

Probably not.

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I'm quite sure it is because people whined, bitched and pointed out just how retarded 30 minute duration is.

Yes. While Engineers have been whining about pet reqs for much longer. Getting the good old "your pets are infinite" excuse for ages, which got even more ammunition from the 30 min pet thing. Now the trolls again have no real excuse for Engi pets having such high reqs, but they still continue doing it.

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Oh I also pointed out that I have a 220 Crat, because you made some mention about me having any sort of clue when it comes to PET professions. Of which, Crat is one.

Yeah, yeah. But you will always be the NT/Keeper guy, not the crat guy. Note how when I was more actively playing my crat and considered myself more of a crat than an engi how people went "but u r engi" all the time when I was thinking about things more from a crat perspective. Gotta say, without the DB tradeskiller pistols I'd still be playing my Crat more. :p

And just because this thread was started with the issue of MPs and Crats getting higher timers equaling that Engineers should get lower reqs, it still doesn't mean that it shouldn't happen. Making a ton of threads about the same thing seems somewhat... Pointless.

EDIT:

And Technogen does have a point. :p
Dec 5th, 2008, 18:29:35
Snakeyes

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Originally Posted by Ferg

You mean like our dog is already? That excuse died last patch.

Not just 1 dog. Im talking chicken bot.
Dec 5th, 2008, 18:37:52
Klodovik

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Originally Posted by Swordbreaker-

Yes, the truth is priceless, isn't it.

No, I mean you spewing out silly stuff (which is actualy truth, I agree :shocked: ) like describing forced termination of my pet as "affecting pet duration" makes it funny. :) And yes, that's indeed priceless.

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Because those that actually PvP do need it, unless, of course, you want Engineers to run around in full nanoskill equip at all times and thus kill off any chances to hit anything. Makes perfect sense if you think about it a little.

Well, except that you actualy don't have to run around in full nano skill setup to do that.

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And an Engineer would also need a full set of CSS as well to perform reliably at PvP with any of those weapons that Engineers are any good with these days. Weird, innit.

No, you only need 2-3 AS implants and scope. Just like me.

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See, that's the thing. If you run around in nanoskill equip, you can forget about hitting anyone with anything but your pets (this is what I do). If you run around in combat equip, you can forget about your pets.

Thus, you need to swap, if you want to be anything but a spec blocker pole.

Or you can actualy make a hybrid setup, like plenty of other engies did. You know, adopt.

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So, what are you sacrificing yourself to be an effective MP?

To be effective in killin stuff? Not much, just my nano skills, NR, run speed and def rating.

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You have low nanoskill reqs

No, I have pretty high reqs on my nanos (much higher then you have on yours). I just happen to have better nano skill buffs. :(

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you have low reqs on your weapon

You have low reqs on yours as well.

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now you'll have all of your pets live long etc.

etc?

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So we're the spoiled brats, huh?

Yes.

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I guess that makes you the guy that got rich overnight and went NUTS.

I save that special "NUTS" moment when I get double AS Tigress with my name on it.

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I can't remember that many times that Engineers actually got stuff served on a silver platter. It always looked more like a case of Engineers looking at the silver platter of Soldiers (and various other professions) and sneaking stuff out of there, making them rather awesome while sacrificing much of their Engineerdom.

Nerf NTs, I say. Need moar trolls in this thread. :(

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Yeah, we're damn lucky so many weapons that were obviously meant for other professions had no profession locks. I bet you could've done the same, but YOU JUST WEREN'T WILLING TO DO THE SACFIRICE. :( :( :( :(

Damn, you should have told me that before LE came out, mate. To seek out "TEH ULTIMATE MP PVP CHOICE" with me. I had no idea that we actualy had a choice to be viable at PvP back then. :(

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So, what made you change your mind there? You were OH NOES over this before as well.

I suggest you to read between the lines more often. I agreed numerous times with engies getting their nano reqs lowered and I even agreed on silverback trader lock removal (actualy introduction of engie/trader version).

I just like to play with your minds.

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Ofc, comparatively, MPs would need a higher increase than Crats because of their innate ability to have craploads more nanoskills.

I agree, at least 1k more.

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