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TBH, I don't think the General is meant to be killed at this point in the game. Sure, she's killable, but the sheer number of people that would have to be in the zone to DO it with the current max level would be rediculous. The same goes for the ql220 implants and some of the new armors...FC has hinted in the past at raising the max level, and I suspect that they're finally moving on it. Just my 2 cents.
Anyone closely familiar with the EQ Main Assist tactic will know that the General is very killable.
First you have to get out of the mindset of running in hit all your specials and expect the mob to die. This will mean everyone will need to have their own set of General Vivyan Armor/Implants because your everyday equipment won't cut it. If she hits for cold damage then make sure you have max cold AC implanted and find the armor that gives the most Cold AC. It might take some time to gather all this equipment for everyone but it can be done. Also see if she has a weakness to certain type of attack. Maybe she has low Chem AC etc....
I think it's pretty cool that FC has given the high level players something to aim for instead of another BS mission. It will take alot of research, team work and many failed attempts but Im sure an Org leader out there will step up to the challenge and be know for the one who gave General Vivyan the smack down! :p
Good Luck!! :D
The Devs may not have intended this but since "Leg chopper" is charmable....
why don't a few crats get themselves a clone army for tanking?
I was surprised no one mentioned it as an option ;)
With 3 leg choppers tanking for a team of 20 soldiers/docs/enforcers/ etc, i'd give you 1 in 20 odds of killing the general.
..Or did they fix the clones? (aka... there is nothing to charm with enough HP to tank)
You need a core team of
12 soldiers
6 doctors
That is if the crit damage through a TMS is not 10k but 2.5k
The rest of the people you invest are there to
A) keep the rest of the zone away from the core team
B) keep the general and cronies pinned in one position.
If critting through a TMS is reduced to 2.5k then 6 doctors will be more then enough to keep a soldier alive while the TMS last.
The moment a TMS drops the soldier will die. The other soldiers need to last long enough that the first one who died will have derezzed and brought back to the core team.
If critting through a TMS isn't reduced the alpha and grid idea works the best.
Problem is that you will need a lot more people to do that one succesful.
Also for the person asking about the right hand
You need to kill that one before the general shows.
Quote:
Originally posted by Tyndareus
Hyper-bosses are so cool. Here are some thoughts I have from playing Asheron's Call:
At the beginning of AC, there was the White Rabbit, a super-powerful version of the normal harmless bunnies in the game. (It was taken from Monty Python). Anyway, it eventually got to where people could easily kill it; there was a "campaign" to "buff the bunny" and the devs actually did it. The White Rabbit became super-powerful, and rampaged around until a mighty concerted effort was used to kill it. They used an interesting strategy; I'm not sure I remember all of it, but here it is: they got tanks to crowd around the bunny and corner it against a wall, so only the tanks were being hit. Then, archers and spellcasters simultaneously debuffed and hit the bunny with offensive attacks. Since the rabbit couldn't get to them, they were safe. And it worked-the rabbit, while much more powerful, has once again become killable.
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Beep wrong
I played AC there was no tanking of bunny. THe bunny wasnt agro...so all they did was ring the bunny very close with a human wall. ALA the bunny didnt attack them if they didnt target the bunny or do anything to aggravate it. and the bunny was trapped mages debuffed and archers and mages plinked away in safe distance with nuthing to fear....it wasnt strategy it was an EXPLOIT of the game mechanics.
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Another example was the month when Bael'Zharon, the Hopeslayer, was released. Actually he didn't even move, he just cast spells I believe, but he was very high-level, and guarded by very high-level monsters. In an effort to kill him, a group of about 100 players went to go kill him. They were all slain-there was a literal carpet of bodies on the ground. Why did they fail? It wasn't because they weren't strong enough; I'm sure they could have killed him. It was the lag. It was awful. People were having to wait several minutes for the screen to change, and when it did, they noticed that they were dead. Thus, nothing could be done simply because the servers couldn't handle it.
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I was in the party that slew Bael on harvestgain....there wasnt 100 of us...or there would have been too much lag. It was basically 4 war mages with extremely high war magic....I was one of them, each with 2 healer mages to continually keep us healed. We had a bunch of around 20 tanks to help get us mages down and into position in the final room......and guess what.....we had to "PERCH" to kill him, which was frowned and was tightly controlled by Turbine....its considered an exploit......because the other mobs in the room were really bad....we jumped up on these statues and shot at him from above. except for drain healths ....we just needed to be healed to be kept alive. So angain we used the game. It took us ages to to realise it was the first time that Turbine had put perches back in the game for a reason. I died before bael did.
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What does this mean for AO? First, I just really wish that AO had the capacity to have hundreds of players in one area, provided one's computer is fast enough. That way hyper-bosses could be challenged with large groups of people. Unfortunately, all the large online RPG's have lag problems. I have no idea if this will ever be fixed, or will just remain a permanent fixture of the genre. If it isn't fixed, hyper-bosses will have to be toned down.
AC had lag problems as well any more than 50 players in one area and we started being portal stormed away.
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Or will they? That brings me to my second point. Perhaps there is a good strategy to beat bosses like the General. Maybe she does have a weakness, like the bosses in Megaman. Maybe there's a foolproof combination of tactics and professions like there was with the bunny in AC. Maybe it's possible to fool her AI so that she becomes stuck or permanently confused; maybe there's a quest item you have to get to be able to kill her. And to be honest, there's probably some sort of bug or exploit to be found to kill her as well. My point is, there's just so much we can try, don't give up hope yet. Even if there's an unbearable amount of lag.
Yes you right here. Maybe there is a way but currently after she kicked our butts.....I am scratchiung my head. There aint that many players in game that high enough who will be availbe at the same time.....to really do this.
Phinger
Quote:
Originally posted by Meligant
The Devs may not have intended this but since "Leg chopper" is charmable....
why don't a few crats get themselves a clone army for tanking?
I was surprised no one mentioned it as an option ;)
With 3 leg choppers tanking for a team of 20 soldiers/docs/enforcers/ etc, i'd give you 1 in 20 odds of killing the general.
..Or did they fix the clones? (aka... there is nothing to charm with enough HP to tank)
Sheehs.....learn the classes.
Crats cant charm their pets across zones.....or we would have picked up a few juggernauts and brought them in to play ages ago.
Phinger
no but they can take engi bots... a army of slayers and warmachines. 2 + ninja driod per crat. very doable...
1. Pets are completely useless...sure you can send them in and get them killed but they can't HIT anything. Their attack rating is piss-poor, hell a slayer/demon/ninja can barely hit me. The only thing that hurts the general are special attacks because they are guaranteed hits.
2. There simply aren't enough people to do this in the game. The fall of Storm (yes I know it's still around to some degree) and TC are examples of the dwindling number of experienced high level players. Even if you were able to get that many people in one place 1/3 would go LD anyways. The rest would be too lagged to do anything, including those docs you're relying so much on.
3. AC will not help you. The reason you're being hit for 10K is because the general is actually doing more than 10K and 10K is the cap. Even if you had 10,000 more AC (-1000 damage), chances are you'll still get hit for 10K.
4. Debuffs (or any nano) are useless due to extreme nano resist. Even if you can land one the effect is insignificant.
5. It's impossible to manage aggro and control it to the extent that you can 'bounce' it from player to player.
Forget it guys, it ain't gonna happen ;)
Keldrys, I think you are missing on some obvious things here.
1. Sure, pets can't really do much damage against a so high-level mob, and it will get them killed.
Precisely! Any damage done to the pets is far, far better an alternative than any damage done to the player characters, as pets can be recast/resummoned in a rather short time.
What would you like the most - the General's Right Hand shooting you for 4.5k cold damage, killing you or taking you down to low HP, or the same mob shooting a slayerdroid, taking 10% off its HP?
2. PW isn't a busy zone, but we'll find out how much the server can take when an operation is mounted (probably some time in the future would be my guess).
3. AC won't help you much, but TMS/RRF/RHC will.
4. Yes, the level 300 mobs have extremely high nano-resist.. but the damage output of them can be lowered - somewhat - by e.g. landing one of the NT's blindness nanos on them. Everything helps.
5. In a major attack mounted against these mobs, people -will- die. That's what happens in any battle. What we can do is to take steps to reduce that number of deaths towards a minimum necessary, while still achieving the objective.
Not going to happen, you say? I doubt FC put those mobs there if they were impossible. They are very difficult - but not impossible.
1. A pet can't take away any damage from other players when it can't draw aggro (i.e. hit the general). The effect of the pets will be minimal at best.
2. Anyone who has experienced Camelot knows exactly what happens when 40+ people are in a relatively small area. 200K pings, 1/3 LDs, the 5 people on each side that aren't badly lagged duke it out. It can take literally 3 minutes just to sit down, no joke. With that kind of lag it will be impossible to do some of these suggested ideas that require precision timing.
3. Yes reflect shields help but not enough. Do you believe that the 40-man platoons that have tried already did not have reflect shields? Also, there aren't enough soldiers to have a lasting TMS shield. Remember that 40 people barely scratched the general's HP bar. In addition, there aren't enough docs to heal those soldiers for however long the general would take. Even if there were enough docs, they would draw aggro from the soldiers simply because of their heals and the fact that the soldiers are only doing damage with specials. Just pure logistics, there are simply not enough people. The population isn't exactly growing, older players leave and new ones come in to replace them.
4. Even with an NT blind on me my damage is lowered by a couple hundred points max. This will have no difference on a level 300 mob's damage output since you can't stack these up.
5. FC has shown repeatedly that they do not understand the very basics of their own game mechanics. Anyone who has been around since launch has seen their share of completely ridiculous mobs that had to be toned down severely (whether by design or by bug). If the mob isn't intended to be killed then mission accomplished. But I don't believe this to be the case either, and FC has just messed up like always.
5's a nice round number hehe ;)
How often does the aggro change?
10k occasional crit would be ok, unless randomly selects a target for it. And if it likes to aggro on docs...its will be very hard.
What I have read so far, few comments:
You need enf to tank it. Soldiers will die as soon as their TMS goes down and their HP with RRFE/bracer just don't cut it. Properly twinked and buffed level 200 enf might just be able to do it.
All offensive nanos (including debuffs) are likely to be completely useless against Viv tho. better to use them to keep those with aggro healed/layered.
You should not use pets to draw aggro from tanking enf tho. It is imperative that the same guy holds the aggro as long as possible.
Also probably need an engi who can beacon warp docs quickly back, if they get picked up by Viv.
And...to reply to the last post. I think its great to have mobs like Viv around, they should not be toned down at all...however the problem really is with nanos as you described...they counter everything.
Quote:
Originally posted by North
How often does the aggro change?
10k occasional crit would be ok, unless randomly selects a target for it. And if it likes to aggro on docs...its will be very hard.
What I have read so far, few comments:
You need enf to tank it. Soldiers will die as soon as their TMS goes down and their HP with RRFE/bracer just don't cut it. Properly twinked and buffed level 200 enf might just be able to do it.
All offensive nanos (including debuffs) are likely to be completely useless against Viv tho. better to use them to keep those with aggro healed/layered.
You should not use pets to draw aggro from tanking enf tho. It is imperative that the same guy holds the aggro as long as possible.
Also probably need an engi who can beacon warp docs quickly back, if they get picked up by Viv.
And...to reply to the last post. I think its great to have mobs like Viv around, they should not be toned down at all...however the problem really is with nanos as you described...they counter everything.
It's pretty obvious here that you people don't really understand the nature of the mob here... Keeping in mind that there is always a "trick" to any mob, this doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot. As Keldrys said, AC's are not entirely meaningful. They do help, but not as much as evades. Evades are what keep you from getting critted as often, this does not mean you will still survive the attack. My 2 cents? She is bugged. It's obvious she hits WAAAAAYYYY too hard along with some other bosses ingame, so just wait. 10$ says she drops energy ammo ;p
What??? Quick lesson in doing uniques.... This may sound good, but if you are losing docs, the situation can quickly get out of control. The 1.5min or so that it takes a fairly high level engie to actually WARP someone to his position is way too long a time to spend waiting for the doc to come around. Not to mention...great...I'm back again....but STILL rezzing....Quote:
Also probably need an engi who can beacon warp docs quickly back, if they get picked up by Viv.
Primuses and Secundus are cute compared to the Dust Brigade.
Diamondine/ Fiery Soldier/ and the heads of the Omni AF Base are more what youre looking for.
General Fredrickson quest is given by General Khaeler in the Secondary base, and you have 4 hours to kill Fredrickson to complete the quest.
I beleive he drops the sentinel DNA for the chest piece.
No I have not done Viv yet. So I can't comment on specifics.Quote:
It's pretty obvious here that you people don't really understand the nature of the mob here... Keeping in mind that there is always a "trick" to any mob, this doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot. As Keldrys said, AC's are not entirely meaningful. They do help, but not as much as evades. Evades are what keep you from getting critted as often, this does not mean you will still survive the attack. My 2 cents? She is bugged. It's obvious she hits WAAAAAYYYY too hard along with some other bosses ingame, so just wait. 10$ says she drops energy ammo ;p
Have you tested it recently? Is it still hitting like that? b/c I think General's Right Hand is quite a different from what it used to be.
If an enf could hold on aggro from it (not sure if possible), properly tweaked they can have 15k+ HP, that sounds about right on these type of mobs, if you have 2 docs chaining CH and 1 doc using normal heal on him.
Again, if Viv likes to aggro on docs, it will be very hard. And probably need a revised strategy, but will get back once I have more first hand experience on this ;)
Thanks for the lesson.Quote:
What??? Quick lesson in doing uniques.... This may sound good, but if you are losing docs, the situation can quickly get out of control. The 1.5min or so that it takes a fairly high level engie to actually WARP someone to his position is way too long a time to spend waiting for the doc to come around. Not to mention...great...I'm back again....but STILL rezzing....
What I ment is that its actually good to have backup docs in case you lose the primary ones. Those should not do a thing unless the main docs fall. They don't even have to be teamed at the start or interfere until absolutely needed, observing the tank and aggro and making sure that the situation is under control. Uniques take time, sometimes you lose ppl to many other things than the pure damage from a mob (here I am meaning lag resulting some unexpected things to happen, fumbles, pressing a wrong button etc. ) This is when backups work, if they observe the situation properly.
In terms of tanking a fixer with GA IV can do it better than an enf in what ive seen from lvl 200+ mobs. me and ipmia could tank polymorphed lunatic and lojtur the lunatic alot better than wolfe could (cuase he kept dying :D). but if this boss hits for the amounts u say it may be a different story cuase we dont have that much health :D but we will get hit by the least crits than any other class by a long shot. :)
u guys seen General Kronallin (spelling might not be right) in pw. he's lvl 299 with 3 elite masked commandos beside him :) i tried a solo attempt but got owned :( he could be another impossible mob :)
also on the "10k crit" issues from this general. mk10 = 75% all damage types and 2*7% cold/fire bracers gives 89% reflect for a while :) that should save u from the crits np but lets hope he doesnt do them constantly :)
Neophyte Hotpanties
Quote:
Originally posted by Krystanova
A VERY good doctor, A VERY good Enforcer, and a group of Adventurers running Dragon Form and Kin of Tarasque, x 5 or more sounds like a start if she's critting for 10K. At least the Advy with KoT can withstand one 10K crit before being whacked. Probably a fixer to do a ransack, some big nukes (Last Word, anyone?) and some Agents to Snipe at her from a distance beyond her range will help too.
Who am I kidding? I have no idea. Something like that seems pretty hard, and will require big team efforts to defeat. Unless, of course, she is not meant to be defeated now, which is always a possibility.
Rhiannon "Krystanova" Pourier
Visit Faunlore: Rubi-Kan Wildlife at:
http://beastiary.somnaterrae.org
Dude.. that adv 7khp buff only last for a few secs.. any you cant land ANY nuke on it.. no nano what-so-ever.. the only thing that hit it is specials and a usualy punsh 1 of 15 maby..
To minimize his attack rating and a crit% you would need 3 crats.
1. Runs crit Demotivational speech.
2. Runs attack rating Motivational speech.
3. Runs nano resistance demotivational speech.
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Two additional enginieers with:
1. AC aura
2. Damage shield aura.
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Hopefully a trader can debuff Generals AC, with a help of Mochams, and Transfer some AC to a tank team, which in return will stuck up with engineers AC aura and might bring tank AC up by 1-1.5K.
After it, a kamikaze NT should get mochams and do Lick of the Pest and prey that it would land.
With Trader's Pawnbrocker and NT's Lick of the Pest target should loose around: 6200 chemical AC.
Fixers, Enforcers and MAs can do chemical damage (if they would ever go through evades and Parry), which would most lickly be a a full damage crits.
Summary:
3-4 Traders
3 Crats
2 Eng.
and loads of other people.
Ah, you have been away from the game for too long Hotpanties. :) Bracers are either left or right wrist depending on type, so you can only have one bracer of any given type. :)Quote:
Originally posted by Hothead
also on the "10k crit" issues from this general. mk10 = 75% all damage types and 2*7% cold/fire bracers gives 89% reflect for a while :) that should save u from the crits np but lets hope he doesnt do them constantly :)
(And on top of that they are unique flagged)
Regarding the 12 soldiers 6 doc team core, impossible.
The moment the first soldier dies, it -will- switch to a doc , not another soldier.
The first people who will die after the tank are the docs.
Aggro on heal, esp complete heal is enormous, and seeing the soldiers will hardly hit the mob -> 18 dead people.
With these types of mobs it is almost impossible to nuke them, and it is nearly impossible to impossible to debuff them.Quote:
Hopefully a trader can debuff Generals AC, with a help of Mochams, and Transfer some AC to a tank team, which in return will stuck up with engineers AC aura and might bring tank AC up by 1-1.5K.
After it, a kamikaze NT should get mochams and do Lick of the Pest and prey that it would land.
With Trader's Pawnbrocker and NT's Lick of the Pest target should loose around: 6200 chemical AC.
Fixers, Enforcers and MAs can do chemical damage (if they would ever go through evades and Parry), which would most lickly be a a full damage crits.
Summary:
3-4 Traders
3 Crats
2 Eng.
and loads of other people.
Only option is that you have to do your best to keep the tank alive, while hoping that the mob does not change aggro on docs.
2x docs doing CH and 2 x docs doing normal healing on the tank "might" just keep him alive (docs do not have to teamed for this)....
Rest of the damage team keep banging the mob until one day it will go down.
Not sure if this would work either.