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VPs get you Ofab and other goodies.. You don't want the fight?
Tier3 is for you then.. it's all based on PVM, and you will find nice mobs to kill in the catacombs.
As for VPs, keep them to there they were intended for. Actually, remove VPs from LE mishes, since they have nothing to do there.
:rolleyes:
What the OP is trying to tell you is that people do BS without fighting, he wants it to be a place where people are forced to fight and not just run around capping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocene
Was just aiming at coon, and nanomage/shade absorb items. Honestly couldn't remember the top absorb buff when I wrote that :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Blessed
There's a difference between engaging in PvP and pursuing a fight at all costs. PvP is the means to an end on BS. Funny enough it's the 496/500 or 500/499 rounds that usualy end up being the best and everyone posting GG in vicinity when they zone down because both sides frantically try to cap while fights rage at more or less all CPs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marduk
BS is balanced - the only imbalance is in levels. Say there's four gimps and 210s on your side and you have 4 PvP people on the other side. Ofcourse BS vary with +/- 1 or 2, maybe even 3 when there's many on it and you have random events colliding, but the times of triple or even double numbers are long gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marduk
IT's called Notum Wars, let's fix that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamin
I have not seen this mysterious "people not killing each other" in BS. There have been a couple of times in BS history where both sides alternately let the other cap 500 points in order to farm VP fast.
I don't know about you, but I believe that one of the main ideas of any competition is to win. Even if I do not need VP, I am still going to try to win the round. I'm going to cap points, I'm going to defend points, I'm going to grief cappers, I'm going to distract as many clans as I can, I'm going to kill as many clans as I can.
EDIT:
^^ There's Tarasque too, but I guess that's meaningful PVP so the OP doesn't want that.
Wat? I run solo 95% of the time. We only really team and work together during the European prime time Battlestations, where there is usually at least 18vs.18 . There is very little point in doing that if there is barely enough players to even start the Battlestation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hacre
Yeah, that's partially true, but there are plenty 220s who do just the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by K1nkstaah
And allow me to take an opportunity to /facepalm in this thread on Shield MPs.
Also , no , i do not blame them, i blame the system.
There are 2 games in Battlestation goings as of now. PvPers trying to fight each other, farmers trying to do a quick 4 cap. Both group tend to screw the fun for each other.
At almost any time of day on Atlantean there will be at least few people who just run around kamikaze chain capping stuff, without engaging at any combat. And hell, i stop seeing much of a point in attacking them either, they are back again from deco within 20 seconds after all. Lately i started to root them and leaving them like that. :p
Go pvp in Borealis, WTF or a 5% zone and stop screwing up the Battle Station.
The Battle Station exists so you can cap points, win/lose and get Victory Points. It just so happens you can kill the other side to stop them from capping.
Don't like capping? Don't pvp there. Hit the arenas.
Has anyone mentioned the fact that at a majority of TLs battlestations may as well not exist?
These TLs need a better PVM way to get VP, because the alien mission way sucks, and makes OFAB useless for any leveling toon since they'll outgrow it long before they can farm a fraction of what is needed.
It isn't like Tier armours where you used to stop leveling and farm some, then could level the armour up along with your character. Ofab stats stay put, and become outdated quickly.
I'm fine with fixing pvm ways of getting Ofab stuff so the BS can be cleared out a bit for some good old fashionied brawling, but frankly, I'm more of a mind to make BS more fun than just capture the flag, really.
Ocene put up a nice idea thread somewhere (I had to track it down, here it is) about making deathmatch BS rounds, more interesting ideas for BS and I think keeping that particular thread up in Mean's immediate view would be a good idea, along with making it known that fixing LE mish rewards would be nice as well.
For all the /emo out there about how FC doesn't listen of late, everything I've seen coming from FC and specifically Means in his weekly posts says not only is he listening, but he's actually acting on some of the common player wishes that have rotted in the Game Suggestions line for years. I think if you forum folks sat down, cut the /emo out, and hammered out some ideas for Means to look at and think over we might actually see some sort of improvement so it's not the current state of BS affairs, which probably is mightily annoying to both pvmers and pvpers.
Any rate, my 2p, before this thread gets dumped into Game Suggestions too.
the point of bs is to get PvMers to PvP. otherwise they'd just make VP an explicitly PvM exercise. now because they allowed the points to be gained without actually fighting, the PvM people and people with bad gear don't fight because they know they will lose. that's where the problem is. people aren't forced to fight, so they don't. you can't blame the people for doing what they're doing, because they're not doing anything wrong. all you can do is call them gay cause they know it's what FC had in mind when they made BS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Berinda
in other words, why would they put the points to cap in a 25% zone and allow you to keep buffs upon death if they didn't expect people to pvp. they encourage pvp in BS. did you really expect FC to put all these different effects in place for you to just run around and cap? don't be naive.
Giving alternatives to VP except for LE mish will destroy BS.. wtb more items in VP terminal,something filthy expensive.... Dont want it? dont do it..
just like "PvM`s" can run around with BoC on their back and flash with a never ending raid history record of 2 years+. (I don`t have to do pande, and i don`t.. so i dont have BoC, fair enough)
I want something similar for the ones doing BS, something flashy.. pff that reminds me.. well there was the hud items, what did they cost. 200 vp? one win and you could afford them all basically. Silly really..
BS is one of the few things i still enjoy repeating in AO, so it means alot to me that it keeps running.
Conversely, you could also call the people "having a nice war" in the middle of the battlestation gay because they are also not doing what FC had in mind when they made the game. Since scores only go up when a side controls a point, and not when "omg wtf rofl i ownt that pvmer" guy kills some 210 fixer in pred, I can only assume that you are meant to capture points first, and hold them by means of pvp in 25% gas (or whatever the gas is. I don't know.). I could be wrong though.Quote:
Originally Posted by cutsman
yea but they aren't holding the points, they're going to cap more and hoping to ninja cap them all for a quick and kill-less 1k vp (they usually aim for both at the same time though, cap more with the goal being a quick and kill-less 1k). it's pretty clear that FC tried to do something different with bs. otherwise ofabs would just be acquired through another pvm grind. what do you think FC tried to do with BS? i think they tried to encourage pvp, and that the people that cap and avoid fighting, or ninja cap all points for quick wins are completely missing the point of bs. i also think that FC tried to address symptoms of a bigger problem that some people i've noticed are aware of, the problem being pvp is broken. if it weren't broken, why would people avoid it like they do? of course there could just be an enormous amount of pvm players as compared to pvp players, but i don't think that's the case. also, we could just have a lot of people that like to bitch, and pvp is working just fine but i doubt that. EVEN IF they fixed pvp, there would still be ninja cappers because you're still forcing pvm people who want armor and nanos to pvp.Quote:
Originally Posted by spiffy123
Right... Only let people get VP where they can get them from doing nothing at all but run in circles or doing the occasional /disco for giggles, weairng nothing but social gear.... Having Weapons/Armor/Symbs/Implants are not even required....Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocene
That's what BS is. Pure BS....
Ninja capping has a minimal effect on the speed of BS unless your side happens to lose all but one of its capping points. In which case, your side is sucking at pvp. That must be because everyone on your side is ninja-capping, right?
You..have no reason to be a Professional.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocene
I am a 220 NT, who hated battlestations passionately for quite a variety of reasons, yet I went long enough to get a complete set of NT Ofab, including shoulders, and back.
My org assisted me in getting the types to upgrade it to Penultimate. And the armor is *fantastic* in PVM.
Let me reiterate that for you since you obviously haven't a clue based on the quoted text.
Penultimate NT Ofab is fantastic in PVM.
Is it bar none the best? No, I will be upgrading some pieces to DB and / or AI armor eventually. But until then, the Ofab is what I wear.
You know, the battlestations are the same map, same ridiculous amount of ganking and express disorganization, and the same chaotic mess, time after time.
They're detestable, in short.
It's no wonder some people want a viable alternative outside the LE missions for gathering VP. And I'd be willing to bet, I'm not the only one who thinks their character does well/would do well in Ofab.
Perhaps in the future, you should explore a bit and learn and research more before you make such pointedly inane, ludicrous and facetious statements.
Riddle me this batman, What has pvp zone gas, an extensive map layout including warps and no reward that truly proves that BS would be another empty zone utterly if the OP's suggestion were implemented?
/thread fail
spawn camping is something people seem to forget about. i've seen it happen as much as ninja capping that 3 or 4 guys roll up in a team with an engie or some ****, and sit in spawn picking people off. the guys that escape to the lift get rooted, blinded, nuked, specialed, and stunned from the 2 or 3 guys camping spawn that follow them in that 15sec grace they get to run away from the camp. everyone else is at the only non capped point defending against the enf, advy or whatever it is that runs in circles grabbing all the attention so somebody can cap. that's clearly what BS is all about. clearly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anorgine
but that's the way BS is supposed to be played right? you're supposed to team up and zerg the other guys while capping and winning asap right? i guess the team that gets camped sucks because they didn't team up and zerg back, right? BS is all about capping points for vp, and if you don't cap points you suck, right? that's where that arguement falls apart because BS is about getting people to pvp, but BS design is flawed in the way that if FC really wanted people to pvp they would make the reward come from pvp only. if you really think BS is about capping points primarily with pvp as some kind of lazy way of designing a challenge then you're delusional or retarded, or both.
i am not saying OP's ideas are what needs to be done. not at all. ocene has mentioned that BS deathmatch would be a good way to fix the flaw in BS that makes people fight each other. if you add higher vp reward or kill count to people that have more consecutive kills or have been alive longer, it would fix a lot of the problem. that way people would be forced to fight each other, which is what BS was intended for to begin with, they would gain VP.
Lol, ofc Ofab is better, that was a sarcastic post.Quote:
Originally Posted by CulannHS
I just don't see Victory Points farmable in a PVM environment. Maybe the problem is that Ofab should be lootable from other places and tradeskilled or something, just like Tiered armor..
Victory Points from mobs...makes no sense to me.
Anyway just my 2 creds worth.
You really can't blame people for going in with more interest in capping than fighting. This is the obvious result of blasting BS VP through the roof to drag people to BSs that didn't want to be there in the first place and don't stand much if any chance. Although that effort was of little to no real success as it was meant to make all the BSs active. Instead of that we really only have two fairly active ones, two rarely active ones and the other five are dead. In fact the other BSs were likely more active back then than they are now as people were signing up to try this new thing at any lvl while now they are expected to be dead so no one bothers.
Even if non-BS VP means were improved over what they are now it wouldn't kill BSs as people keep saying as it still would be easier and faster than the alternative. The only ones that wouldn't go at all would be the ones that can't stand BSs and still want VP. Others with an active BS would stick with BSs to get it over with sooner and then some would split their gains between the two. Then of course since seven out of nine BSs don't run much if at all improved VP from other means wouldn't do much if anything to them since they're already dead or almost dead.
Then the most effective way to get BSs run more continually would be to go with the old BS team idea rather than sided BSs. Just how often have those on the continually winning side been sitting in the queue without the thing running at spot 20+ or even 30+? There's more than enough signed up to get the thing going but with it stuck on sides it doesn't. Then if you could sign up knowing you could win the next round even if you lost the last 2+ those that leave now wouldn't so more would keep signing up.
Ocene
Ever since the very beginning in the pre-launch FAQs we were told it would earned by both PvP and PvM methods. At that time I don't even think they indicated which would give more so as far as anyone would know then the PvM means could have given more. It doesn't matter if you're a hardcore PvPer or not and think it shouldn't be earned in any other way, that's how it is.