Monthly Development Update - December 2014 (h0 h0 h0)

Aside from the US/EU pricing discrepancy being unfair (I am in the USA if that matters), the game as a whole is overpriced in any currency. There are free browser games that put more effort into their titles than FC does into AO. Not dissing the current GD at all. I don't think they get near the support or resources needed from FC to progress the game with more than superficial changes or additions.

I feel like this game should be free with an interesting item store that people would want to spend money on ( not just "buy" credits on...) or about 7/month max.

I'll add to the point that the difference in cost when buying GRACE is also relevant. The "conversion" of real money to creds is much more profitable for those playing in the US at the moment, which is also unfair.

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Originally Posted by Esssch

Just to play Devil's Advocate, where do you draw the line? Should prices be updated daily according to the exchange rate? Monthly? Yearly?

Also, $18/month would still be fine for most US players, most of us aren't charged sales tax online unless the company has a presence in our state. It definitely doesn't sound like that big a deal when you consider most European countries have higher minimum wages than ours.

I really have no strong feelings one way or the other, though. Good luck getting Funcom to listen this time!

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When you start comparing minimum wages, you also have to compare expenses like taxes, rent etc pp. Because, as a german citizen, I can assure you we lose a lot on the way.
But anyhow, I don't think this is about people not being able to afford food anymore all of a sudden. Pretty sure everyone can easily afford this, it's more about the difference and so the unfairness.

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Originally Posted by Esssch

Just to play Devil's Advocate, where do you draw the line? Should prices be updated daily according to the exchange rate? Monthly? Yearly?

Also, $18/month would still be fine for most US players, most of us aren't charged sales tax online unless the company has a presence in our state. It definitely doesn't sound like that big a deal when you consider most European countries have higher minimum wages than ours.

I really have no strong feelings one way or the other, though. Good luck getting Funcom to listen this time!

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It's not about affordability, it's about fairness in price in a market where the big players actually charge in a fair way. As for the how often prices should be updated bit.. seriously? Look at how the big players in the market do it and mimic them (it's not very often, you could just say that once it hits a 10% difference you change it and be done with it). They seem to be something right in that regard as there's a huge difference between a tiny difference that changes a little here and there and a massive difference that keeps growing.

I highly doubt FC will listen but I've been seeing stranger things happening with Michizure on the helm. Good strange things.

With value of euro falling price diffrence is already droping. Soon it might fall within 10%. Maybe make an announment "We bring you fair price everywhere and raise USD price and lower EUR for revenue neutral change.

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Originally Posted by DigitalBath

It's not about affordability, it's about fairness in price in a market where the big players actually charge in a fair way. As for the how often prices should be updated bit.. seriously? Look at how the big players in the market do it and mimic them (it's not very often, you could just say that once it hits a 10% difference you change it and be done with it). They seem to be something right in that regard as there's a huge difference between a tiny difference that changes a little here and there and a massive difference that keeps growing.

I highly doubt FC will listen but I've been seeing stranger things happening with Michizure on the helm. Good strange things.

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Looks to me like most of your problem comes down to VAT. Better start voting.

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Originally Posted by Esssch

Looks to me like most of your problem comes down to VAT. Better start voting.

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Nope. Refer to the below quotes as to why you're wrong and seem to have missed the point (as Cratertina previously did).

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Originally Posted by Baby

True VAT is not part of the netto price, but $15 is 12,45€ as I said. Even if you added the 19% VAT from Germany, you'd only be at 14,80€ circa. That is a lot less than the 18€ it costs now. And it doesn't matter if you pay per month, every 3 months or once a year.
Yearly sub in USD: 95,40 (= 79€)
Yearly sub in EUR: 113,53 (= $135)
19% VAT of 79€ = 15€
79+15 = 94€
113-94 = 19€ difference.

I dunno about you, but I'd rather have those 19€. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by DigitalBath

The only reason VAT is brought to the table is that many people try to blame it on that out of ignorance.

<snip>

If I paid 14.95 USD + 23% (vat) I'd be more than happy as I wouldn't be charged a higher base price for no legitimate reason.
Apply the same difference to 12month sub.

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Originally Posted by DigitalBath

I get the VAT altering the price, I'm sadly well used to that. The rest is FC's own wrong doing, though.

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I understand the euro group feeling the price is unfair but given the length of time that AO has been available you have to realize that there have been periods when the euro/dollar conversion was flipped from the current state and it was the US players that were playing the unfair price if you want to play the exchange rate/converted value of the currencies. So yes I feel your woes and at one time it was the US subscribers that were getting shafted. But exchange rates could go crazy in the next year and it be the US customers that are screwed again. A more valid argument for everyone is AO is too expensive in their payment currency for its age and in comparison to other more modern MMO's.

PS:
Remember they made a bean counter the CEO. If they adjusted rates it would not to be lower the Euro price but raise the dollar price. After all Bean Counters ONLY care about the bottom line.

@Lheann: The Euro was only widely adopted around 2002 (bank notes and coins were issued then and online payments surely came after). I didn't play AO back then, but most likely the payment was made in USD for everyone as that was the standard in most games. (would be super cool if someone who lived in the EU zone and played back then could confirm this). -- SEE EDIT

From November 2002 'til now the Euro has been equal or higher (though mostly higher, peaking around 1€ = 1.60$) than the US Dollar, so those "periods in time" were actually non-existant as far as AO is concerned.

I get your point but it doesn't hold up to how the currencies have evolved so far and "hoping it eventually events out" is the wrong way to go about it or I'm sure other, more successful, games and online services would have picked up on it.

EDIT:
I paid for the game in USD in 2003! The change to online payments came even later than I thought. Somewhere between 2003-05-17 (my last USD payment to FC) and t 2003-11-13 (my first EUR payment to FC), they started allowing the currency.

As such, customers paying in Euros have always paid more for the same amount of play time.

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Originally Posted by Lheann

PS:
Remember they made a bean counter the CEO. If they adjusted rates it would not to be lower the Euro price but raise the dollar price. After all Bean Counters ONLY care about the bottom line.

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And that would actually be fair, even if undesirable for the decaying US playerbase and a wrong move by FC.
Most Bean Counters know that setting the prices too high for their market leads to less money flowing in (and it tends to decay further over time) if the competition is worth anything. Those that don't.. well.. they'll learn the hard way if they have to.

So it's true then? It's not a mistake? I have to pay € 18,69 now? Was there any kind of info on this anywhere?

They probably figure every European still playing must have 3 accounts to get anything done, better capitalize :p

also most european are clan vs usa, australia and russia which are omni

Any chance of a Patch to fix the graphic problems myself and other have??? DX7 isn't supported by many graphics these days and as such i'm unable to play and re sub since Febuary 2014

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Originally Posted by zoneik

Any chance of a Patch to fix the graphic problems myself and other have??? DX7 isn't supported by many graphics these days and as such i'm unable to play and re sub since Febuary 2014

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This might be of help.

those hisii swords are garbage

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Originally Posted by DigitalBath

Nope. Refer to the below quotes as to why you're wrong and seem to have missed the point (as Cratertina previously did).

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The price difference without VAT is close. EU still pays more, but not by a huge margin. The price difference with VAT is where the issues come in. Sure, paying the equivalent of $14.95 with VAT added on would be ideal, but it's probably time to stop living in a fantasy world. I'd like to point out that EU players have complained about the price difference time and time again over the years, and yet the only change you've seen is an increase in cost. Meanwhile, US players have rarely, if ever, complained about the price, and our price is still the same!

You've let Michi know, he'll probably pass on the message. You know what you can do now, instead of annoying the rest of us? Call, email, tweet, visit, send carrier pigeon, send up smoke signals, or otherwise communicate with the actual company and not the developer of a single game. I hear candygrams are a great way to get your message across.

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Originally Posted by Esssch

The price difference without VAT is close. EU still pays more, but not by a huge margin. The price difference with VAT is where the issues come in. Sure, paying the equivalent of $14.95 with VAT added on would be ideal, but it's probably time to stop living in a fantasy world. I'd like to point out that EU players have complained about the price difference time and time again over the years, and yet the only change you've seen is an increase in cost. Meanwhile, US players have rarely, if ever, complained about the price, and our price is still the same!

You've let Michi know, he'll probably pass on the message. You know what you can do now, instead of annoying the rest of us? Call, email, tweet, visit, send carrier pigeon, send up smoke signals, or otherwise communicate with the actual company and not the developer of a single game. I hear candygrams are a great way to get your message across.

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1. The difference is not mostly VAT (read Baby's post on that). You're wrong. (And even if it actually somehow was, it's not the point that has been raised so you're still off!)
2. I didn't raise the issue myself, I just replied to people here more than others have.
3. I have tried to pass the message through other means, don't worry about that, cupcake.

If the message or subject annoy you (who are you to speak for "the rest of us", anyway?), you can ignore it/me. I can post/reply about it as often as I like, public forums and all.

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Originally Posted by DigitalBath

If the message or subject annoy you (who are you to speak for "the rest of us", anyway?), you can ignore it/me. I can post/reply about it as often as I like, public forums and all.

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Oh, sure. In that case, let's make it about multiboxing! I think this is a good move on Funcom's part! It gets them more money from the ones that stick around, and gets rid of some multiboxers! Win win! And since you're still here whining, they're getting more money from you! Thanks for subsidizing my cheap US subscription!

In other words, I'll say the same thing I've said every other time this has come up: QQ more, your tears are delicious.

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Originally Posted by Esssch

Oh, sure. In that case, let's make it about multiboxing! I think this is a good move on Funcom's part! It gets them more money from the ones that stick around, and gets rid of some multiboxers! Win win! And since you're still here whining, they're getting more money from you! Thanks for subsidizing my cheap US subscription!

In other words, I'll say the same thing I've said every other time this has come up: QQ more, your tears are delicious.

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You're probably not as funny or good at trolling as you think you are. Have fun though!

P.S. - I don't multibox. I don't know what you're getting at. People are free to play the way they want to, though.

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Originally Posted by DigitalBath

You're probably not as funny or good at trolling as you think you are. Have fun though!

P.S. - I don't multibox. I don't know what you're getting at. People are free to play the way they want to, though.

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I don't have to be funny or good at trolling. This isn't about me, this is about you. You're the one with a problem here, not me. My subscription is still cheap!

I thought the multiboxing reference was obvious. Guess I have to spell it out. Multiboxing has been talked about over and over and over and over again in these forums. It's currently a bit more than the EU subscription cost, but it's pretty similar. Multiboxing discussions have been stopped and removed from places to condense it. You're beating a dead horse and going around in circles. Find a better way to communicate your issue to the people who actually matter or find a way around it.