GTH recovery effect

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Originally Posted by Berinda

All other debuffs, when they run out, you get your skills back. This is no different.

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was gonna reply but it seems youve been owned atleast 5 times already in this thread, gg :D

i cant think of a single debuff, were, when it ends i get a positive effect from it.

RI ... agents dont get the 10k heals theyve just missed out on or there hp set back to full, fixers dont get the ticks they have missed from there hots back.

your dodge debuffs, we dont get the hp back you took when they was up.

YEEIYF, dont get hp or nano back from that.

i cba continueing

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

Yes, docs have more HP then agents, period. I never said agents dont have ubt i said that doctors have a RELIABLE ubt, jesus, learn to read, then come onto these forums lookin to shoot down ideas.

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That would mean agents UBT is in anyway different from a docs, which its not. Its the exact same nano and the only difference is nano skills.

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

where i ask you, where in this thread have i said ANYTHING about attacking power? is this thread about attack power? no... why did you bring up attack power? because you pissed at this thread because its about making a nano, that your still butthurt over, a tiny slight bit better after a huge nerf on it. Bravo mate, bravo.

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No because you only like to point out certain things instead of the whole picture. In which case the offensive power, and the ability to kill a trader changes things drastically when it comes to comparing how badly GTH effects someone. You just seem to only like looking at the things you like to look at while ignoring the other parts. Seems like your butthurt over us not agreeing with you though :(

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

Jesus people, Instead of putting forward ideas/arguments about my proposed idea, you just jump and attack my profession.

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No we attacked your ideas/arguments, they just involve bring up the other part of your profession that you left out of the picture.

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

Stop and think about it neutrally for a minute as im doing, get over the 2 or w/e years of GTH terror and look at the massive nerf its had and what changes have been made to the trader professions and THINK. I can really see you guys are more "OMG I WANTZ MY PROF TO BE BETTERERER" and less "BALANCE PLX"

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Because its still ok for a trader to keep someone at 0 nano with the use of GTH? Thats balanced right? Draining someones nano without the use of GTH is possible, but its in a much more balanced form unlike GTH.

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Originally Posted by Anarchic1

Anyone who justifies stripping some profession's offense or/and defense ability with one nano completely is just a tard.

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CB nerfs my ONLY defense against NT's. QQ :(

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Originally Posted by Anarchic1

so what's the point of this thread..... tbh anyone can run away from a trader after being gthed/drained in mass pvp. Only the dumb ones still q. GTH is unbalanced though in duels, solo pvp hence why it needs a nerfing. Anyone who justifies stripping some profession's offense or/and defense ability with one nano completely is just a tard. Half that **** came into this game with Sirllion "brilliant" idea of nemesis nanos.

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it did get a nerf, a very big nerf. 15 sec duration now, instead of aminute, and a local cool down of 1 min, thats a big nerf. Im just saying that its had a pretty hard knock and then for their target to gain back nano at an eccellerated speed at the end of the nano cast is, in my opinion, not required

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Originally Posted by Kazeran

That would mean agents UBT is in anyway different from a docs, which its not. Its the exact same nano and the only difference is nano skills.

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yes... yes im aware they are the same nano...my god, and YES the difference is NANO SKILLS making the land rate of UBT more RELIABLE, my god... some people are so freakin stupid.

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Originally Posted by Kazeran

No we attacked your ideas/arguments, they just involve bring up the other part of your profession that you left out of the picture.

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ok smart fella, please quote to me all the arguments you have made towards justifying having the nano heal at the end of the GTH debuff, id be glad to see it. Oh and if you could do it without bringing up a doctor/agent comparison which is completely besides the point of this thread.

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Originally Posted by Kazeran

Because its still ok for a trader to keep someone at 0 nano with the use of GTH? Thats balanced right? Draining someones nano without the use of GTH is possible, but its in a much more balanced form unlike GTH.

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im gonna assume that your a doctor, please tell me when the last time you were drained completely dry of nano by ways of another profession debuffing you. I'm loving your responce heres couse its complete crap!

Also GTH in its previous state was increadibly imbalanced, documented and univerally known. the knew version, yes it is much more balanced. it does strip your nano away but only for a short period of time, then you have 45 secs of not worrying about another gth from that trader. in comparison to the older version, this one is alot better.

How about you comment on the now changed GTH and its balance, rather then trying to attack the agent profession hmm?

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Originally Posted by Strupstad

CB nerfs my ONLY defense against NT's. QQ :(

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Ever heard of Nanobot *Defense* ?

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

i
yes... yes im aware they are the same nano...my god, and YES the difference is NANO SKILLS making the land rate of UBT more RELIABLE, my god... some people are so freakin stupid.

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Your the one who brought it up, you were trying to compare the two as if they were different somehow.

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

ok smart fella, please quote to me all the arguments you have made towards justifying having the nano heal at the end of the GTH debuff, id be glad to see it. Oh and if you could do it without bringing up a doctor/agent comparison which is completely besides the point of this thread.

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I haven't as of yet, others have done that in the thread which you've seem to ingored. I was arguing that gth does not have a worse effect on agents then docs, like you suggested. I pointed out why i think so and you claim that iam attacking your prof because i was butthurt. Though it seems the other way around to me.

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

im gonna assume that your a doctor, please tell me when the last time you were drained completely dry of nano by ways of another profession debuffing you. I'm loving your responce heres couse its complete crap!

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Traders can easily keep a doc at 0 nano w/o the use of GTH. Very easy in 1v1. In mass pvp not as easy but can be done if they doctor has recently attacked someone, most of their nano is gone due to malp spam. SL nano drain + ring, while the doctor attempts to get malp off or some heals can keep the doc at 0. MA's, the few that know wtf they are doing, can also accomplish it if the doctor attempts to kill them with malp. That and malp can drain doctors nano pool alone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

Also GTH in its previous state was increadibly imbalanced, documented and univerally known. the knew version, yes it is much more balanced. it does strip your nano away but only for a short period of time, then you have 45 secs of not worrying about another gth from that trader. in comparison to the older version, this one is alot better.

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No one is saying otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

How about you comment on the now changed GTH and its balance, rather then trying to attack the agent profession hmm?

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I've already commented on the new GTH and i still think its to much in terms of mass pvp.

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

if anything doctors are better off in this circumstance then agents are, they have heal perks which require no nano at all, and unless im mistaken doctors have better nanodelta then the average agent? and more hp? and reliable UBT to slow down the trader?

frankly if this is "fine" for an agent its "more then fine" for a doctor, because nanowise doctors are alot better off, so think before you post, fool.

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

i never said it hurt agents either, seriously where are you pulling this stuff from? is your wrist smelly yet? couse your reaching mighty far.

i would seriously doubt that even with nano doctor would have the damage output to kill a trader with those seconds anyways so offensively its irrelivant.

look im not here to debate which prof has a better chance while GTH'ed im putting forward an idea about GTH after effect. I simply braught up that i was an agent so that all the flametrolls wouldn't instantly jump to "SOOOO hows your traderdoinmkthanksbai"

either put forward something constructive other then "TRADERS SHOULDNT GET A BREAK COUSE AGENTS HAVE AN OFFENCE" or leave please

(i like how the fact that you say "after gth wears off and you remove drains your offense is back", well guess wat, when gth is over and drains are out, your gonna be able to nano up and have your offense back up as well, so omglamepoint is lame)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

ok smart fella, please quote to me all the arguments you have made towards justifying having the nano heal at the end of the GTH debuff, id be glad to see it. Oh and if you could do it without bringing up a doctor/agent comparison which is completely besides the point of this thread.

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Apparently you don't seem to understand the hint to look at a bigger picture then focusing on one little aspect. Or you choose to ignore it, doesn't matter either way.
It's funny that you now point out how retarted doctor<->Agent comparison are in regard to GTH, seeing as you started that with your first post.
But I suppose your "GTH IS FINE COUSE ITS OK FOR MY AGENT!" way is working out for you. (See? I can twist meaning to big letters too!).

Whatever, chill out. I'm done and your way to hostile anyway.

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Originally Posted by Mekh

The way I see it.... If there's an opposing trader on BS, there's still no reason for me to be there. I logged an alt instead.

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You have to be kidding me...

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Originally Posted by Kazeran

Your the one who brought it up, you were trying to compare the two as if they were different somehow.

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the nano itself is the same, i never said they were different, i just said that a docs is more reliable. you not got that yet?

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Originally Posted by Kazeran

I haven't as of yet, others have done that in the thread which you've seem to ingored. I was arguing that gth does not have a worse effect on agents then docs, like you suggested. I pointed out why i think so and you claim that iam attacking your prof because i was butthurt. Though it seems the other way around to me.

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ill run thru all the posts on here that are relivant to my OP, shall i?

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Originally Posted by SultryVoltron

I actually thought it was pretty good. When I was fighting Strup earlier, it became obvious to me that a well timed GTH can be a perfect way to send people into "OH ****!!!!" mode.

It's no longer a spam and LOLOLOLOL nano, and that's fine imo. If you get creative with when and how you use it, it's a powerful addition to the toolset. Also, try and keep in mind that FC is trying to move away from single nanos defining the effectiveness of a toolset.

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which i think is more on my side then anything

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Originally Posted by ninst

It's only 2 % every 2 seconds, 10 ticks. Any decent trader will keep target's nanpool empty using YEEIYF, Plagiarize Notum, Accumulator proc. So from target's point of view new GTH is just as bad as the previous was. Still a win button.

Traders can easily keep a doc at 0 nano w/o the use of GTH. Very easy in 1v1. In mass pvp not as easy but can be done if they doctor has recently attacked someone, most of their nano is gone due to malp spam. SL nano drain + ring, while the doctor attempts to get malp off or some heals can keep the doc at 0. MA's, the few that know wtf they are doing, can also accomplish it if the doctor attempts to kill them with malp. That and malp can drain doctors nano pool alone.

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I stood corrected on this one, i didnt argue the tick rate/amount, this is probably the most relevant post to this thread i've seen.

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Originally Posted by agentwolve

wait, GTH gives you nano now ?
twisted logic for the previous overkill i guess

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was not aware, was informed, and seems to think same as i do, next

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Originally Posted by Berinda

All other debuffs, when they run out, you get your skills back. This is no different.

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relevant, but stupid, and has been shot down many times already.

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Originally Posted by Shareida

Any decent doc survived two GTH cycles before the nerf, thats 2 minutes.

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cant validate it, but still is relevant to pre and post nano change

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Originally Posted by Anarchic1

so what's the point of this thread..... tbh anyone can run away from a trader after being gthed/drained in mass pvp. Only the dumb ones still q. GTH is unbalanced though in duels, solo pvp hence why it needs a nerfing. Anyone who justifies stripping some profession's offense or/and defense ability with one nano completely is just a tard. Half that **** came into this game with Sirllion "brilliant" idea of nemesis nanos.

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ahhh, he says needs a nerfing when it already has been nerf, thought this one is on topic, unlike your posts that seem to be pointed directly at agent/doc comparisons. i guess you could look at this post from either side and see its in their favour.

anyways, thats about all, and they actually all seem to focus on GTH itself, not its now much shorter duration and moreso the nanoheal at the end which was wat this thread was about.

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Originally Posted by Kazeran

I've already commented on the new GTH and i still think its to much in terms of mass pvp.

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orly?

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Originally Posted by Kazeran

I haven't as of yet,

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consistency fail.


I also noticed for all you examples, bar maybe the trader, the doctor that was getting drained of nano was doing a malpractice spam... hmmm so is it the opposing prof thats draining the doctor or is it the doctors malpractice thats draining it? ill let you think about that one for a moment.

one last tidbit

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Originally Posted by Kazeran

I pointed out why i think so and you claim that iam attacking your prof because i was butthurt. Though it seems the other way around to me.

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i'll just leave this here

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Originally Posted by Kazeran

Most doctors would like to have a word with your AS monkey butt.

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and lastly

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Originally Posted by XenonDe

It's funny that you now point out how retarted doctor<->Agent comparison are in regard to GTH, seeing as you started that with your first post

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please, please, PLEASE go back and *read* my first post, and notice that, amazingly enough, the word "doctor" is not mentioned even once, in fact i only mention the word "agent" once, in that i was saying that i am one, and not a trader. so please, read before you post. the closest i come to it is "GTH haters".

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

please, please, PLEASE go back and *read* my first post, and notice that, amazingly enough, the word "doctor" is not mentioned even once, in fact i only mention the word "agent" once, in that i was saying that i am one, and not a trader. so please, read before you post. the closest i come to it is "GTH haters".

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You're right. It was your second post. The one I quoted from for that reason.

Just remove GTH, no matter how you will tweak it, it will always be stupidly OP.

Lets for a moment put the shoe on the other foot here.

If GTH were to be completely removed, how would traders fair up against these profs?

please discuss, from the perspective of a trader, how, without GTH would a trader do against, say, Agents, doctors, NTs and mmm maybe MPs?

maybe if you are a trader, try and think of it realistically instead of we would be ****, and if you are one of those profs, like say a doctor or an NT, think of it not as pfffft they would be fine, think of it properly...

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

the nano itself is the same, i never said they were different, i just said that a docs is more reliable. you not got that yet?

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You seem to miss the point i made where i pointed out that UBT doesn't have any impact on the trader, i believe i made that in my first post after you brought UBT up. You not got that yet?

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

ill run thru all the posts on here that are relivant to my OP, shall i?

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You should be reading the whole thread if your going to post in, It's only 3 pages.

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Originally Posted by Kazeran

I've already commented on the new GTH and i still think its to much in terms of mass pvp.

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

orly?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

ok smart fella, please quote to me all the arguments you have made towards justifying having the nano heal at the end of the GTH debuff, id be glad to see it. Oh and if you could do it without bringing up a doctor/agent comparison which is completely besides the point of this thread.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kazeran

I haven't as of yet, others have done that in the thread which you've seem to ingored. I was arguing that gth does not have a worse effect on agents then docs, like you suggested. I pointed out why i think so and you claim that iam attacking your prof because i was butthurt. Though it seems the other way around to me.

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

consistency fail.

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Can you see where you made the mistake?

I haven't commented on the nano heal after GTH is over, I have commented on GTH in itself though. Your comparing two different questions. As far as the nano heal it's still isn't enough. Traders can easily use other nano drains to keep the doctor at 0 nano after gth is over.

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

I also noticed for all you examples, bar maybe the trader, the doctor that was getting drained of nano was doing a malpractice spam... hmmm so is it the opposing prof thats draining the doctor or is it the doctors malpractice thats draining it? ill let you think about that one for a moment.

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Yes I am sorry, after a doctor uses his offensive tool hes spent on nano and its relatively easy for a trader to drain the rest of it. Also sorry that outside of mass pvp a trader can drain my 19.3k nano pool with me healing at the bare minimum. My apologies maybe i should just stand there and heal?

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

i'll just leave this here

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So a comment made towards you is an attack on your prof?

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

Lets for a moment put the shoe on the other foot here.

If GTH were to be completely removed, how would traders fair up against these profs?

please discuss, from the perspective of a trader, how, without GTH would a trader do against, say, Agents, doctors, NTs and mmm maybe MPs?

maybe if you are a trader, try and think of it realistically instead of we would be ****, and if you are one of those profs, like say a doctor or an NT, think of it not as pfffft they would be fine, think of it properly...

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With the gazillion of other debuffs? Which should also be nerfed tbh!

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Originally Posted by Kazeran

You seem to miss the point i made where i pointed out that UBT doesn't have any impact on the trader, i believe i made that in my first post after you brought UBT up. You not got that yet?


You should be reading the whole thread if your going to post in, It's only 3 pages.

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i've read every post in this thread, afterall i did make this thread, and ubt has no effect on traders? wow, i call bull**** on that.

by the way, posting your quote saying that you have commented on GTH does not count as posing your quotes on gth,

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Originally Posted by Kazeran

Can you see where you made the mistake?

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ahh, no?

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Originally Posted by Kazeran

I haven't commented on the nano heal after GTH is over, I have commented on GTH in itself though. Your comparing two different questions. As far as the nano heal it's still isn't enough. Traders can easily use other nano drains to keep the doctor at 0 nano after gth is over.

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yeah you said it was OP, going to comment on its duration keeping you at 0 nano for only 8 seconds? going to post about its now 1 minute lockout timer?

Ofc not, because these are the things that are making it alot more balanced, which it seems you dont want to come to grips with

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Originally Posted by Kazeran

Yes I am sorry, after a doctor uses his offensive tool hes spent on nano and its relatively easy for a trader to drain the rest of it. Also sorry that outside of mass pvp a trader can drain my 19.3k nano pool with me healing at the bare minimum. My apologies maybe i should just stand there and heal?

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how bout this one then, dont spam malprac against a trader untill... i ono... you survive thru the GTH? its easily possible.

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Originally Posted by Kazeran

So a comment made towards you is an attack on your prof?

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Oh, so it was a personal attack? well, thats MUCH better, thank you for clarifying that for me. Seems much more fair when you attack the person putting forward balance ideas then the profession he plays. Very nice.

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Originally Posted by Kazeran

With the gazillion of other debuffs? Which should also be nerfed tbh!

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hmmm, well those other debuffs dont do a whole lot to the professions i listed, doctor has drain removal perks, can have mutiple heals on hotbar in case drains somehow arnt removed, and i couldnt see them pool getting drained in any short period of time by regular means, sure over a long period of time maybe...

NT? well 1 CB would basically remove any effect of having 2x drains running on them and i highly doubt trader could remove their nano pool with regular means, or have the DD to kill an NT before then NT kills it with nuke spammage.

Agents i've had personal experiance with, and its situationall really, in bs if you can et the drop you can most likely alpha the trader down and then AS spam if your drained, if its a duel, idk its probably just AS spam + hoping your nano can last out in time.

as for MP, well idk really guesss NSD lands and what, tbh i dont know a whole lot about this profession.

Seems like in alot of these cases the trader dosnt really stand a huge chance to kill their target, at least not without a looong amount of time spent chipping away at them.

The old GTH allowed them to kill these profs with ease, the New one allows them to kill them but not with ease exactly, a better chance. without GTH i would think that it would be strongly in favour of the opponent of the trader in these cases. So if you ask me the middle ground of it helping but it not being a 100% deciding factor is balanced.

Thats the way i see it anyways. Anyone care to respond to this?

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Originally Posted by Ocene

With the gazillion of other debuffs? Which should also be nerfed tbh!

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Leave queue, join QQ!

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

Lets for a moment put the shoe on the other foot here.

If GTH were to be completely removed, how would traders fair up against these profs?

please discuss, from the perspective of a trader, how, without GTH would a trader do against, say, Agents, doctors, NTs and mmm maybe MPs?

maybe if you are a trader, try and think of it realistically instead of we would be ****, and if you are one of those profs, like say a doctor or an NT, think of it not as pfffft they would be fine, think of it properly...

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Even before GTH traders weren't bad off against doctors. Sycceria was killing doctors reliably, and even after asking around a bit, that's the only PvP-trader I can mention from pre-GTH days.

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Originally Posted by Strupstad

CB nerfs my ONLY defense against NT's. QQ :(

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The problem with GTH is that it's a blanket removal of both offensive and defensive capabilities of atleast two professions. It's a one-button wonder, that leaves said professions about as dangerous as newborn kittens - no other debuff in the game has a similar capability, and it's still over the top even with the latest changes.

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Originally Posted by Avari

Even before GTH traders weren't bad off against doctors. Sycceria was killing doctors reliably, and even after asking around a bit, that's the only PvP-trader I can mention from pre-GTH days.

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this is my point, if there is no gth in the picture its gonna be really tough for traders to be able to kill these profs, only the top top top of the line players/toons will be able to do it on a regular basis.

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Originally Posted by Avari

The problem with GTH is that it's a blanket removal of both offensive and defensive capabilities of atleast two professions. It's a one-button wonder, that leaves said professions about as dangerous as newborn kittens - no other debuff in the game has a similar capability, and it's still over the top even with the latest changes.

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it does remove them both for nt and doctor, sure, and there is no other debuff like it in game, then again it has undergone massive changes. the simple fact of the 1 min lockout means if you are running around and a trader has used it previously it wont be use on you at all, even moreso its now only for 8-10 secs your without nano now instead of 50+ or until the trader is dead. Its powerful yes, if used at the right times, powerful yes, as OP in its original state? no, not really

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

...snip...
Its powerful yes, if used at the right times, powerful yes, as OP in its original state? no, not really

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Previously it was completely-out-of-whack-LOL-worthy OP... Now it's just OP...

That still leaves it as being OP though.

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Originally Posted by Parranoid1

i've read every post in this thread, afterall i did make this thread, and ubt has no effect on traders? wow, i call bull**** on that.

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I'd honestly like to know how ubt really affects traders.

Drains have a 3s cast time, CP/IS has a 2s cast time, NBD has a 1s cast time, yeeiyf has a 3s cast time, their root has a 1.38s cast time, gth has a 3s cast time.