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If Funcom wants to improve PvP they should make an attackers level even with the level of whoever he attacks until the battle is over with equal risk of loss to both. First shots should do minimum damage (or less) and all buffs/implant advantages should be averaged.
Then you will have PvP. Now you have griefers vs victims and the latest proposal just makes it worse.
I don't mind the idea of being ganked.
i like risk.
THAT"S WHY I PLAY THE GAME.
so reward risk. missions in 25% zones should have more $, better items, and more exp. That said, mission items should not be lootable.....not the reward, but the "bring it back here" items.
as for ganking, well, i think you ahould NOT get a title or points for killing a player more than 20 levels under yer own....as there is NO risk there for most.
me, when i do a mission, i fly in, straight into the doors, from altitude. and when i leave, i fly straight back up. if i wanna buff, i do it inside the first room. not outside...where it is "safe"...cause it ain't.
i LIKE the feeling of "omg, i am in 25%....someone could kill me"
as for fixing the grid-camp thing, well done.
Let's make PVP part of the plot line instead of something more like an "act of nature" - where a level 150 drops out of their Yal at random in one of several under-populated 25% zones that would otherwise be GREAT to team for EXP in, and blasts your level 75 self to kingdom come. That's about as much fun as being struck by lightning, no? Just a far sight more likely.
As it stands, I can fly over whole sections of the world in my Yal and not see another player of any alignment at all. Entire zones of absolutely amazing potential in terms of geographic coolness (enigma forest, anyone?) and opportunities for teams to battle the many NPC monsters in the game are, basically, going to waste. Even more oddly, most of these places are wilderness areas with little if anything of real "strategic" significance to them.
Instead people congregate in the few non-PVP zones where there are more than two or three mobs they can fight... to the point that these areas are overcrowded, overhunted, and overly lagged. Others do missions, mostly to now-infamous Home in Broken Shores.
I propose spreading 75% gas over Eastern foul plains, over Mort, Perpetual Wastelands, the Stret Banks and the Artery Valleys. Let people have plenty of space to level in, since that's what most people are going to do most of the time, no matter how small a non-PVP box they have to cram themselves into to do it.
Then lower the gas in and around cities. Guards might have to be made stronger, or more numerous, or somesuch... but it would be a lot more compelling to PK as part of the defense of Tir or Omni-1, than to be out in Stret East Bank minding your own business and harrassing the local wildlife and then be nuked out of the blue by someone twice your level. Newbies are protected from being PK'd by higher level people anyway, and lower level PKers will mostly be kept away by the guards. Nearby 75% newbie leveling zones shouldn't be hard to come by either (omni forest, newland desert, etc).
It would shift a lot of the risk onto attackers - attacking an enemy strongpoint, and be more in line with the story. The objective of a war is to occupy your enemy's cities, not kill random people out in the middle of nowhere.
Jynne
PvP risk wouild be nice though... I would like to see all the overcamped high level spawns turned into 25% areas to make things interesting :)...
Ok I change my posistion again, the loot is a good idea.
I take risk to get my xp anytime! Risk being killed by hostile mobs that is. The risk to be killed by PKs is totally different and pure grief playing (scanned PKs killing others without risk). Forcing PvP on MMORPG players who just want to play the game their way is simply a bad business decision on FUNCOMs side. It has absolutely nothing to do with roleplaying and gets ppl frustrated who want to enjoy the game and not deal with schoolbully stuff.
Right now FUNCOM seems to think that PvP is a normal game element that can be used to control and influence things in game. They dont get it that ppl wont take such things when there are alternatives.
I can see Verant laughing at what FUNCOM is doing here
The game is based on xp, stats and items. PvP is an add-on thats just an annoyance to some cause there is no real purpose for it in that environment and certainly no roleplaying. On top of that the fact that you can scan and only unscanned peeps real risk anything offers plenty of room for grief in AO. Verant understood that PvP and carebears dont mix. Letting one side enjoy ruining the game for the other side makes for muchos unhappy customers.
Perhaps they have to learn the hard way tho. Wont be too long now.
Val (d00dz dont roleplay)
I had posted this in "13.8 minor world changes" ther is some relevance here as some1 had brought up the point of BS Home vs. other hunting grounds.
I agree BS is too overcrowded. I LD 6 times on the way to the save term last week. That was a record for me. A solution needs to be reached (as well as a lag fix)
The save term in Belial Forest I know for a fact is fixed, as of 13.2? 13.4? But, a lot of mobs do chem dmg, etc, have low xp, and was not viable to the extents that my guild and I tested it out, the best xp vs. mob/time was mort, and then missions =(, sad to say, I have missioned for 40 lvls, i dont know how much longer these padded walls of insanity can hold me There need to be more viable places to hunt in the other zones. Only problem is, you make save terms everywhere, and then theres no need to feel "risk" while hunting in 25%, which will now negate fc's efforts for the "13.8 upcoming changes to pvp". So wheres the solution?
So, as i see it, to give us some "incentive" to stop doing missions and hunt:
1) mission reward sharable xp will no longer be shared
2) we will get a trophy for making some1 lose 10% of
their lvl
I dont know about you guys, but a lvl for me now is 20 mil. 10% is 2 mil. I get p$%^#@ enough when a mob nukes me and i lose 2 mil (see my post in "13.8 MOB changes, two major ones") let alone another player ganking me for 2 mil because he thinks its funny and because he can. But on the other hand, all is fair, in love and war. Wouldnt be called war if we were nice to eachother.
My point is, is taking away our shared xp reward a fair way to give us "incentive" to take the risk to hunt in 25% zones?
food for thought.....
As far as the new system exploiting gankers, please define a "ganker"
It is clearly marked across your screen when you are entering a PvP zone. There is even a 15 second count down timer ticking past your face. At what point would a intelligent human being think him, and his earned XP are safe?
As far as i am concerned, if your in a PvP area, your fair game. Unless of course you have a gentlemens agreement, that you are about to duel someone, and would like the opportunity for a 1v1.
Even then there are no guarantee's.
Thank god the countdown timer is finally going to work as intended, no more omni grid campers to deal w/.
We are all at war, if you would like to avoid the war, avoid PvP zones, or buy a yalm. In 15 seconds you could be in the next zone, or so high not even a stinger missle could bring you down.
Oh great camp hunting explorers, since you are so worldly in the terrain of rubi-ka, you do know that there are all kinds of places to hunt outside that are 75% gas still, if 25% gas is so terrifying to you. There is an aces camp in andromeda, a borg camp in milky way, enigma twigs around plesant medows, and a huge region of broken shores in 75% gas called the maze with lots of very red conning mobs to level 100s like baby faces and sand worms and the like. I wasn't going to spell out the locations for you BRAVE ADVENTURERS, and was going to just let you keep complaining about no outdoor spots to stand in one place all night and level, but maybe some of you will stop complaining about outdoor camp hunting spots if you can all migrate to some new ones.
I don't buy the whole risk/work thing for camp hunting, 30 guys standing on the borg hill spaming q, 1, 2, 3, 4 over and over without ever moving isn't in my book role playing, risk or reward in terms of fun, but to each his own. I never really got in to puchinko either.
Yes there may not be a save terminal 30 seconds away but what the heck, no players can attack you there. It cracks me up because when I first went to Mort I was level 70 and no one was there at all, except 2 level 130ish players. Then later it became popular. Why don't you brave adventurers take a few steps away from a save terminal and look around a bit, I bet you can find quite a few places with high level mobs to kill. There is a whole fort of juggernaughts, omni-shock troopers and other uber npcs in the south of avalon. So you can't save 30 seconds away? I mean after you left the VW camps, standing around for days waiting minutes at a time for hardended bullys to spawn in VW, did you do anything besides go to the newland grid and head to mmd running as fast as you could north from there just in case one of your toes slipped into 25% gas in MMD, then save in mort and have been there ever since? Open your eyes and look around a little bit. Clanners there are tons of ninja droids and mantis in SFH waiting to be camped. Just no save =[
the risk/reward for places like the aces in EFP/Mort/DAV/CAV/SAV/PM and belial is perfect. If you want that kind of exp your risk is PVP. I could care less about loot, or pinkies or any of that stuff, but those areas should remain PVP zones no matter what. I AM GLAD they are making the looting changes, because then maybe you will work to make your chacter better rather than just level.
I will say I'm not a big fan of titles, I think they make people play like cowards, and they also make people want to fight, if the whole world was 0% gas and there were no rewards or penalties for pvp after a few weeks there wouldn't be much unmotivated fighting. People would learn to get along, and anyone who caused a lot of troubble would find themselves in deep poopoo. In fact making the whole world's gas 0% would really stop a lot of punk action fast.
Furthermore, I'd gladly support losing saved experience for PVP, right back to whatever level you just hit, if people feel the risk of being the attacker doesn't match the risk of being the attacked. Same would got for the attacked tho, you die, right back to the beginning of your newest level. I have no problem with both attacker and attacked sharing risk.
But, later in the storyline and with more content added, I think this will be enjoyable.
I can't wait to see battles of teams in a 25% zone with some guy running around trying to loot everything for his team, while in a fight. Then he gets killed, so someone else tries to loot him from the other team.........finally, the last one who survived gets ganked by someone who was camping the teams and waiting for the last remaining player with all or none of the loot...........WEEEEEEEEEEEE.
Seriously, I can't answer this post until their is a real need for PvP content in the game (conquering outposts, etc).
Kyana
LOL, and this is coming from the current UBERGODDOCTORPVPIMPOSSIBLETOKILL.... makes it even more fun...Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Sent
How many times and in how many places will you post the same thing?
The topic is "Discuss: 13.8 PvP changes", not "Discuss how to make NT's uber gods of PvP and how to nerf classes."
Hehe it does sound like fun but won't happen that way, only the person that gets credit for a kill can loot, and they only have about 1 min to do it, the time it takes your items to hit the reclaim. I think this will have a very insignifigant effect on PVP overall, and it will be fun, if only I could decorate my apartament in pinkies.Quote:
Originally posted by Kyana
But, later in the storyline and with more content added, I think this will be enjoyable.
I can't wait to see battles of teams in a 25% zone with some guy running around trying to loot everything for his team, while in a fight. Then he gets killed, so someone else tries to loot him from the other team.........finally, the last one who survived gets ganked by someone who was camping the teams and waiting for the last remaining player with all or none of the loot...........WEEEEEEEEEEEE.
Seriously, I can't answer this post until their is a real need for PvP content in the game (conquering outposts, etc).
Kyana
You guys have it backwards.
Give a reward if YOU are risking over 10% of your experience. NOT the person being killed.
As has been pointed out by many all of the true PvPer's will have saved, and the only way for anyone to get a reward is to kill someone returning from a mission.
I guess i should have expected another insane idea. After all Funcome have them once in awhile, and we are up for another idiotic idea.
The game must be reconfigured properly if this is to be added, since we were not told that we have to PvP in the game. it was a option for those that whant to. As it is as you lvl you need to get farther away to hunt and do missions, and eventualy you end up in political zones.
If the game was made in such way that twinking was impossible it would not be all that bad, but now we have uber twitcher that grief kill n00bs that donīt get a few MCr donation from another of once characters. And then the griefer keep on complaining when you tries to balance the game, and they will not be as uber.
And what do Funcome want to do? They are going to reward these griefer. SICKENING!
Suggest PvP Changes.
1: 30 sec timer on the /terminate command
2: Make PvP titles more challanging - give them a NEGATIVE to their PvP damage based on their title. Then a PvP who has a high title would trulley be something to be feared, that he can overcome the penality and still roXXor you. This would also help balance battles between veterans and new players to PvP. Afterall its all about risk.
Freashman -1%
Rookie -5%
Apprentice -9%
Novice -15%
etc....
3: Yalm's should not be rootable
4: You should be above level 25 to enter a 25% gas zone. this would help to reduce the supatwinks that you find in the game.
#1 is a very nice ideaQuote:
Originally posted by Falcon
Suggest PvP Changes.
1: 30 sec timer on the /terminate command
2: Make PvP titles more challanging - give them a NEGATIVE to their PvP damage based on their title. Then a PvP who has a high title would trulley be something to be feared, that he can overcome the penality and still roXXor you. This would also help balance battles between veterans and new players to PvP. Afterall its all about risk.
Freashman -1%
Rookie -5%
Apprentice -9%
Novice -15%
etc....
3: Yalm's should not be rootable
4: You should be above level 25 to enter a 25% gas zone. this would help to reduce the supatwinks that you find in the game.
#2 totally exploitable, any time you got a title all you would do is go into a 25 gas zone and stand around and let people kill you till you lost it again.
#3 very exploitable, everyone would enter 25% gas zones in planes, imune to attack and out of range, sit around untill people they could gank showed up then unequip the plane and gank, not very nice giving people who have a very ex*****ve item special immunity from combat.
#4 I don't know about, it's an idea, a better idea would just be the overequiping nurf and fixing steping of implants.
The idea about someone entering pvp with unsaved exp and getting a reward is nice too.
Its a fame thing, if you want the title and any sort of recognition for it, then your going to eed to earn it. Sure you can be a supakilla Freashman, and lose your title if it gets to high, in fact that would be encouraged for those that can't take the heat.... but how would you feel when you saw a real Neolyte. I know who'd I have more respect for.Quote:
Originally posted by ULTRA1
#2 totally exploitable, any time you got a title all you would do is go into a 25 gas zone and stand around and let people kill you till you lost it again.
No problem there, just fix the autodequip bugs. Also make it so that any fall over two metres from a plane (only) deals x10 damage. That should help discourange some of the paratroopers that we have. Also freeze movement while dequiping/equiping vechiles. Another possibility is to not allow dequiping at a height of greater than 2m above an object height (building/ground/whatever).Quote:
#3 very exploitable, everyone would enter 25% gas zones in planes, imune to attack and out of range, sit around untill people they could gank showed up then unequip the plane and gank, not very nice giving people who have a very ex*****ve item special immunity from combat.
ok.. why add risk based on how recently you saved? this seems to add risk for non-PVPers, and not change anything for people who are actually doing pvp who will be extra careful not to make a single point of exp while pvping, so they won't risk anything.
And i say pvpers but alas, it's also the griefers..
You should make this more dependant on the risk the attacker took to kill the target.. some ideas could maybe be:
- level difference: no reward if you kill a 75 and you're 125. If people are teamed, team level counts of course, if not this kind of check can be cheated by non teamed ganging.. but if the kill goes to whomever did the most damage it will likely be one of the higher level guys in the group...
sure i could see high level doc/debuffer+lowbie damage profession still cheating this rule.. but at least it would take some stratagems/profession combinations. Of course if you're 125 nothing in a 75's inv is likely useful to you, so what reward is that? but it's sure useful to him! why should he get extra risk for an unfair fight?
- use the killer's unsaved exp percentage as a parameter in addition to the victims.. let's say you get a chance to loot his items if you have more unsaved exp than him.. you were taking bigger risks hence get better reward.. this would make for some fun risk/reward fights by forcing pvpers who want rewards to take risks.. and if they're griefers at least when someone kills them they are themself griefed.
I think the combination of these two rules, or at least the level one, could make this a viable idea..
As a general idea i think a lvl 75 should need to be quite brave to walk into a pvp area with unsaved exp.. i like places to be risky.. but sometimes game world realism has to compromise with game /social dynamics.. otherwise we wouldn't have suppression gas and lvl difference caps up to 75 at all and level 1s would be killed by lvl 100s who just want to annoy them.. this did not work in UO...
No one would ever make Neophyte with those rules, the scoring is already pretty whacked. But no one would really want to. I can tell you don't really PVP, one of the current drawbacks of having a title is you are everyones target already. People get a lot more title points for killing people with higher titles. So when you see novices and apprentices around, no one bothers with the rookies and freshman, they mob the apprentices and novices because they will earn them more points.Quote:
Originally posted by Falcon
Its a fame thing, if you want the title and any sort of recognition for it, then your going to eed to earn it. Sure you can be a supakilla Freashman, and lose your title if it gets to high, in fact that would be encouraged for those that can't take the heat.... but how would you feel when you saw a real Neolyte. I know who'd I have more respect for.
Again, I don't think anyone would want a "title" under those circumstances, because people would rather win. Also, the point of it seems rather discouraging to player v player combat. Since we are in a conflict and want to encourage people to participate in that conflict if they aren't neutral, doesn't it seem odd to punish their abilities if they participate in the conflict?
Would you rather there was no conflict? Your idea would make a lot of sense then, since it would be like attacking a citizen of your own country and be against laws. If the conflict bothers you get a petition started for peace, then we could merge clan neutral and omni factions into 1 and be done with it, eliminate PVP or punish it dramatically, and hunt wherever we want in peace.
I don't know what the autodequip bug is. Still waiting in a plane would be by far the best strategy, even if you had to land and de-equip it to fight you could just pick a nice safe spot. It would still be used to exploit in recon.Quote:
Originally posted by Falcon
No problem there, just fix the autodequip bugs. Also make it so that any fall over two metres from a plane (only) deals x10 damage. That should help discourange some of the paratroopers that we have. Also freeze movement while dequiping/equiping vechiles. Another possibility is to not allow dequiping at a height of greater than 2m above an object height (building/ground/whatever).
Did you know that rooting people in planes is your best defense against a bunch of omni piling up to cream you in Mort? It's very easy to root them out of the sky, and they are using that sky to rally their forces, and you are letting them. And your suggestion basically will give them even more power over you in organizing a solid attack. The defender should have some advantages, and you will be removing that.
If you want to make a lot of comments about PVP I suggest you actually try it for a while, learn the ins and outs of it, before you try to make suggestions on how to fix it.
Sorry if this has been mentioned, but it's late and I don't have time to read all the posts.
Give an experience bonus for hunting in a PvP zone. I'd even say as much as 20%. I know that sounds high but when you concider the following it's not.
- It rewards players for the extra risk they take.
- It compensates for the experience points lost because of PvP. Since you can't gain but only lose exp from PvP, this makes sense.
- It compensates for the fact that players will kill mobs slower because they will have to be on the lookout for PvP and have to stay at full strengh more often
If you can expect to lose 300k experience in a night due to PvP, but will gain 300k more than normal due to bonuses, it won't hurt as much. PvP will become popular and fun only when players are rewarded for the extra risk.
:) Great idea!Quote:
Originally posted by Crin
Sorry if this has been mentioned, but it's late and I don't have time to read all the posts.
Give an experience bonus for hunting in a PvP zone. I'd even say as much as 20%. I know that sounds high but when you concider the following it's not.