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Right. So the devs are forcing people into both PvP AND PvM AT THE SAME TIME?!? No, wait. My analysis of PvP areas I stand by. The hack job done on my post I'll accept. Looks to me we got a big world and not enough playmates to wreck it with so no matter what tweaks are made it feels like love is being showered on the other style of playing. So back again to "We need more players"...
I disagree with this statement, I do team with org mates who pull LE missions to solo all the time so they can get vp. I've tried pulling them into Bat station but after a few sessions of gettin 4 capped they have never gone back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gridpain
...and here i thought it was the PVM crowd who's always been accused of that infamous 4-capping in BS. There's been several angry posts in the forums from the "true PvP'ers" who have said they hate pvm'ers who ruin their precisious BS fun by four capping. Which i've always felt a bit funny because it actually is the goal of the BS to win the other team by capping and holding as many points as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psikie
But it looks like the PVP'ers twist every argument so that it always supports their cause. First it's the PVM crowd ruining their BS by 4-capping and then it's the PVM'ers all of a sudden ruining BS by leaving because of the 4-capping. Can you please make up your mind already?
Seriously guys, FC has really tried to please you. They even made a completely new playfield, which they created pretty much just the way you guys suggested in the forums. An instance with BS like fast spawn w/o rebuffing and ability to attack anyone you encounter. But it's always empty. Maybe because there's no leveling toons in average gear for you to "pwn"?
Ok, there's some other flaws too, but it IS a PVP area made only for PVP, which is what most of you asked for. I remember seeing many posts asking for a PVP area without any pvm usable rewards so there would be only "real" pvp'ers inside. I wonder why it is always empty though...
Actually, I wonder that too. It's fun on the rare occasions someone else is there :(.
PVM'er here - have fought a total of 2 duels ever, never been to BS. Do alien missions pretty frequently since I like the OFAB stuff. And after all, for a PVM type, doing lots of missions - not a problem. Though I do appreciate the notum miners - great way to get VP fast, and level at the same time. SO far haven't met anyone in the notum miners who's tried to PvP.
I keep on getting the impression that without top gear PvP is an exercise in frustration, and I get enough frustration at work. Wouldn't mind finding out I was wrong - am I?
Too funny and too true lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeliniyah
Go into a Battlestation round and you'll find:
- Some folks that are darn near afk (aka in a mech) just wanting to get their daily done
- Some folks farming solo kills and wanting 1v1 (or 2v2) pvp as their primary reason for being there
- Some folks that legitimately want to 'win the round' by capping as fast as possible, thus dominating the other side.
None of these (well except the afk dude.. but whatever) is right or wrong.. its just different perspectives on how a player views the battlestation playfield. What i described above is just fine if you have 15v15 or something like that. In that scenario, you've got enough people in battlestaton that anyone can pursue their personal objective and the round will still be fairly balanced.
When, however, you have a 6v6 or a small group, 2 or 3 people having any single objective can potentially ruin it for the others present.
To be perfectly honest, this is no different from the ongoing PvM discussion about outside tanking teams and how they 'ruin' the experience of the players that want to do traditional-style leveling teams.
In my opinion, it all really comes down to a population issue. If you have enough people playing.. then there will be enough people doing <insert battlestation or leveling or whatever activity here> the way you want to do it. Let's be frank, if you have people playing the way you enjoy playing and you're able to have fun.. do you really even care that there are people doing it another way? This only becomes a problem when you're the only one doing it X way and you really can't stand the alternative options.
Seems like our nature here in AO (and I am no exception) is to:
- Criminalize the behavior we don't like
then
- Ask Funcom to remove said behavior.
When really.. we just need to let people play the way they want and the game needs more players.
Only reason I don't do BS anymore is the endless hanging around for a game to get my daily done. I died nearly all the time because I'm a Froob Neut: no token boards, no perks, basic weapons & armour. Did I care? Hell no! It was a laugh! My NT has one (1) kill on him from the time I got ganked by four players with me on my own and their Fixer called me a noob. So I hunted her down and killed her. And just said "Bye bye!" as she went to decon. Though I'm PvM I liked farting about in BS because it didn't matter to me how often I died it was all part of the game. Then I got bored waiting for hours only to get an invite in the middle of a PvM mission so gave up. *shrug* Like we say, more players are needed for all styles of play.
"I'm a pvm'er" "I'm a pvp'er"
Wtf..
I'm an AO Player nice to meet you. I play AO as it was intended and do both PvM (gotta level, and find loot for cash and use etc) and I also PvP because it's pretty fun. Just because you don't do any PvP doesn't mean you're a PvM'er... It just means you don't do PvP, nothing more. Vice versa too. I'm saying this because I can't see it doing any good for the devs when people are split down an imaginary side that doesn't even exist in reality. Everyone will have there own ways of playing AO for sure (I certainly do) but because you levelled to a certain level, spent a ton of money twinking and making yourself uber-leet for PvP doesn't make you a PvP'er in the slightest. It just means you're pretty good at AO, well done and have a cookie.
When people say 'PvPer' what they really mean is someone who spends the majority of their time PvPing or working on a toon for the purpose of PvPing.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMojoRisin
When people say 'PvMer' what they really mean is someone who doesn't spend much (if any) time doing PvP activities in game.
There are also Roleplayers which are people whose major focus in game is roleplay.
Obviously all 3 of the above do other things besides PvP, PvM or Roleplay but using those terms does quickly identify significant content that the player enjoys.
People that engage in an equal (or close to) share of PvP, PvM and Roleplay don't seem to have a label.. those people usually just clarify upfront that they do both PvP and PvM (and the roleplay discussion happens rarely).
It is much easier to use the term PvPer or PvMer than to keep typing out the definition in every post. I'm guessing you don't realize this is what people mean.
For those who weren't around or don't recall, when BS was introduced it was full, almost all day long. 210-220 BS would reach the maximum players and there would still be 20 people waiting outside. Now you can't even find 6 or whatever it needs to launch :p
*reminisces*
The battlestation design is faulty.
In comparison to SWTOR it's the epitome of fail.
In AO, you have a limited number of instances, either over populated or under populated by a group of people who by improperly planned mechanics will completely dominate one another or be completely annihilated with zero chance to win a fight.
you have either too many people or not enough people, with no mechanism available to provide relief in either situation.
As the previous poster suggests: a few years ago there were 20 people WAITING to get in (thus, not playing), now, there are not enough people to populate it, but, there are also 10 other people wanting to PVP, at different TL's, but, they ALSO can't play, because there aren't enough people at those levels EITHER.
so... lets look a bit closer. There are some ranges that never actually worked. So why didn't FC address this then?
The obvious, and still, the most painfully simple idea that was never implemented, is: why not have one battlestation with a leveling buff that was given to EVERY person sub 220 to equalize the playfield, and, have numerous instances of BS to get into.
How much insight would it take to have forseen that the method of implementation would be so inherently flawed? It boggles me that 6 years later this poor implementation is STILL in game.
The buff to equalize everyone is dead easy.
You separate the field into 3 elements:
220's
201-219's
1-200's
level 220's get NO BUFF - that is, their gear, perks, buffs and abilities set the standard (IE. QL 300).
From level 201 to 219, every toon recieves a buff on entry that gives them a linearly varying buff of add dmg, AAO and AAD that corresponds to the difference that the average toon would require to reach levels comparable with a 220 (something like 50 AAD, 25 AAO, 15 add dmg and 200hp per level from 201 to 219)
From level 1 to 200 each toon receives a buff on TOP of the 201-219 buff that linearly varies according to the difference between levels, such that the average equipped toon of that level could be comparable with a level 201 toon something like (10 AAD, 10 AAO, 10 add dmg, 50hp)
Now, instead of having 10 or however many retarded, unpopulated individual BS's you sign up for, you got one SINGLE instance that EVERYONE signs up for, and EVERYONE plays EVERYONE else EVERY TIME. When one BS fills up, the next instance starts to fill.
Now, the difference between everyone is such that a level 10 can come up to a level 220, and start whackin him, and, if the 220 doesn't pay attention, he will get whacked to death... note, that a level 10 has few specials, few perks, and few defences, so, it will take several normal hits to kill the 220, but, at LEAST if the level 10 pairs up with some friends, he can probably take one down.
Then FC should add: a BS first aid stim that requires 1 first aid skill and heals 10k HP with a 1minute cooldown and is usable by everyone, and a BS free movement stim that removes ALL debuffs, snares, roots, init debuffs, blinds, that has a 1 min cooldown.
Finally, make ALL debuffs/snares/ etc cancel as SOON as you're out of combat.
Now BS is competitive for ALL levels, fun for EVERYONE, and nobody will dominate due to OP'd, broken mechanics.
And thats the point. The lowbies are weaker, but, you can gang up, and, it won't be futile to join up because you'll actually get to play. Twinking will reward you with more power, but not unjustifiable power. It all makes sense.
SWTOR's PVP instances is exactly the same as AO. It circumvents the problem of balance between professions by making the goal of the fight not to fight the other players directly, but to achieve some objective while largely avoiding or just keeping the others occupied while you win by achieving the objectives.
And that's the end of that.
You mean ... distract the opponents while 4 capping ?
What's so bad about PVP based around objectives?
1 forum post and you instantly equate that to some sort of proof. Cute.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeliniyah
How about both?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeliniyah
VP farmers 4cap.
The other sides VP/SK farmers get 1/4 of the VP compared to the winning side.
When the BS is over, the losing sides VP farmers don't sign up again.
Simple. Happens every single BS round.
The reward for the instance is tiny amount of VP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeliniyah
You can't enter with a flag.
You can't tab your own side.
Why would anyone bother going there over Bor/OA?
There's nothing bad about PvP based around objectives.Quote:
Originally Posted by drainbamage
It's just that BS design doesn't really lead to that.
The point of BS is to win by points scored from controlling the points... if epeen hunting prevents you from succesfully preventing the opposing team from doing this and your own team to win by doing so, then you suck at pvp. I'm sorry if that's not what the people who for whatever reason identifies themselves so strongly with being a "pvp player" want to hear, but that's just how it is. Objective based pvp like tower wars is far superior to just flanging against eachother too, as it introduces multiple other variables than just "there's a guy, shoot him".Quote:
Originally Posted by Gridpain
Nothing. It's better because it helps remove focus from balance between individuals.Quote:
Originally Posted by drainbamage
Yeah, because DDing towers and then switching to a player is so much more superior. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastablasta
SWToR PvP balance is a lot better than AO. There, I can kill everyone and they can't kill me. In AO, it's the exact opposite. Oh wait..Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastablasta
Ah. I think I misinterpreted your post. My mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastablasta
But yeah, I agree, 1-vs-1 balance shouldn't be the focus. Too much work for little payoff.