18.7 things I'd like reviewed

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Originally Posted by Traderjill

I'm listing things in the order I encountered them and will update this post as I log additional toons.

1. In order to use grid nanos, beacons and I guess any of the transportation perks you must have completed a mission called "Certificate of Travel". Grant you this mission takes all of about 2 mins but it is a big annoyance for those of us that have a lot of toons. In this day and time where a good majority of the playerbase has multiple accounts, it would've been nice for you to just flag our existing toons with completion. At the very least, if you could put this NPC on Live prior to 18.7 so we can do the quest in our leisure.. it would be great.

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I was re-thinking this quest and if the sole purpose is to post a "mission bit 15" on each toon to allow them to use beacons, meeps, or be meeped by others ... then why is there any skill requirement or size limitation?

If it truly is ONLY to give each toon the Bit15 flag then there should be NO Skill or Level requirement to complete the quest.

Now if there is some other Hidden Reason to support requiring 150 comp/lit then please tell us why ... otherwise remove the comp/lit requirement.

Emma

Additional issue:

- Uncontrollable Body Tremors. I'm a bit confused as to what is going on. On Test, my doctor is sitting at 2552 NanoC. Init. and it takes quite awhile (about 3 seconds) to cast UBT. My doctor unbuffed on Live has 2473 NanoC. Init and she insta casts UBT. The attack time on UBT on Test is listed as 5sec, same as on Live. What is going on here? I won't comment on the 30 second duration until I manage to get into a group on Test to see how all of this comes together.

Cost of MA heals.

1163 for enlightened healing touch vs 257 on live.

While in zazen the difference is valid, but this change will make MA's unplayable in their normal (non Zazen form).

The appropriate change is to make the cost of MA heals the same as live, then attach a hefty nanocost to Zazen.

MA normally needs to be able to use fist buffs, MA attacks and nano heals like they've always done.

In Zazen, on the other hand it makes sense to ramp up the costs significantly: fist buffs will be much harder to cast, heals will cost more but heal for LOTS more, MA attacks will cost a lot more than what's affordable.

It makes much more sense to do it this way.

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Originally Posted by Traderjill

Additional issue:

- Uncontrollable Body Tremors. I'm a bit confused as to what is going on. On Test, my doctor is sitting at 2552 NanoC. Init. and it takes quite awhile (about 3 seconds) to cast UBT. My doctor unbuffed on Live has 2473 NanoC. Init and she insta casts UBT. The attack time on UBT on Test is listed as 5sec, same as on Live. What is going on here? I won't comment on the 30 second duration until I manage to get into a group on Test to see how all of this comes together.

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UBT has a cast cap now. That's why it is ~3secs. We have an UBT thread in the Doc-Forum for more infos :)

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Originally Posted by Baby

UBT has a cast cap now. That's why it is ~3secs. We have an UBT thread in the Doc-Forum for more infos :)

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Yeah, didn't get alot from that thread except you experienced the same issue. Did someone explain the 'cast cap' because I read the thread 3 times and couldn't pull anything out regarding that mechanic.

Regardless of what's happened I suppose my point was that I don't like it. I was messing around and I just felt like I was playing.. I don't know.. something other than a doctor. UBT-Dot A-Dot B-Dot C-Malpractice- rinse/repeat while tossing in a heal. In fact, it's starting to feel no different playing my Trader with the constant casting (debuff 1, debuff 2, debuff 3 try to rush in an AC drain every couple cycles, rinse/repeat). I'm not sure what the obsession is with the short duration timers that are going to do nothing but cause us to have to be on a constant rush to refresh.

I sorta like each toon to 'feel' different and with this change to target debuff timers at least 2 of my toons feel exactly the same now.

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Originally Posted by Traderjill

Yeah, didn't get alot from that thread except you experienced the same issue. Did someone explain the 'cast cap' because I read the thread 3 times and couldn't pull anything out regarding that mechanic.

Regardless of what's happened I suppose my point was that I don't like it. I was messing around and I just felt like I was playing.. I don't know.. something other than a doctor. UBT-Dot A-Dot B-Dot C-Malpractice- rinse/repeat while tossing in a heal. In fact, it's starting to feel no different playing my Trader with the constant casting (debuff 1, debuff 2, debuff 3 try to rush in an AC drain every couple cycles, rinse/repeat). I'm not sure what the obsession is with the short duration timers that are going to do nothing but cause us to have to be on a constant rush to refresh.

I sorta like each toon to 'feel' different and with this change to target debuff timers at least 2 of my toons feel exactly the same now.

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The "why" can only be answered by devs, who have turned pretty silent on everything it seems. My guess would be (as just stated in another thread) that this is suppose to enhance team play, as you will need at least two docs now for Pande, if you want mobs to be UBTed. Also maybe to reduce the solo abilities of docs, because chain UBTing/healing keeps you from dotting.

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Originally Posted by Traderjill

Additional issue:

- Uncontrollable Body Tremors. I'm a bit confused as to what is going on. On Test, my doctor is sitting at 2552 NanoC. Init. and it takes quite awhile (about 3 seconds) to cast UBT. My doctor unbuffed on Live has 2473 NanoC. Init and she insta casts UBT. The attack time on UBT on Test is listed as 5sec, same as on Live. What is going on here? I won't comment on the 30 second duration until I manage to get into a group on Test to see how all of this comes together.

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See here: https://tl.aoitems.com/item/99577/

The cap is at 2.5s. It's the same mechanic as has been used in the past for other nano programs with a cast time cap.

They ve already nerfed enforcer hitpoints by 19k, docs hit with a 20s cooldown on iCH and init debuff nerfs, Soldiers Fa nerf so most of what you just said has already happened :)

iCH has always had a 20s cooldown.
CH & A&O were changed though.

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Originally Posted by Demoder

See here: https://tl.aoitems.com/item/99577/

The cap is at 2.5s. It's the same mechanic as has been used in the past for other nano programs with a cast time cap.

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At least we have you Demoder to help explain changes ... since Dev's are silent. It would be better if Dev's / FC would explain their rational for all these nano changes. Right now it seems half finished and un-supported. We could use a by profession summary of changes in 18.7 so far plus those to come and the reasoning explained in detail. Three year old balancing documents that are not being followed anyways is not an explanation.

Emma

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Originally Posted by Emma

At least we have you Demoder to help explain changes ... since Dev's are silent. It would be better if Dev's / FC would explain their rational for all these nano changes. Right now it seems half finished and un-supported. We could use a by profession summary of changes in 18.7 so far plus those to come and the reasoning explained in detail. Three year old balancing documents that are not being followed anyways is not an explanation.

Emma

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QFT. I totally overlooked the cast cap value because it isn't listed anywhere in the nano description you see in game. Even with this extra bit of info, all of my original statements on the UBT change apply.

Another thing that's bugging me is that some of the changes aren't clear. I logged on to TestLive and I can't seem to locate ICR on my doc or ISC on my crat. I know that some nanos were deleted and some were consolidated but the patch notes are horrible on clarifying what the heck has happened. I'm grateful to Demoder for the TestLive aoitems.com but why isn't this stuff in the patch notes? I have toons of every profession and now I have to go, nano by nano, to figure out what has changed. Apparently looking at the info in game isn't enough as there are values that matter (i.e. cast cap value) that don't appear in game so I have to use a third party website to decipher the patch.

I understand the concept of 'discovery' but when you've played a profession for some 10 years you simply aren't 'running into' things as you play it anymore. Clear notes, for each profession, stating what was deleted, what was replaced, what nanos were changed, etc would be nice.

Also, about deleted LE nanos and moreso expensive improved nanos: I feel like complaining about a 500m nano is the least of the issues right now but it irks me that these things are just 'removed' when we've paid for them. And then the trader nano line was split and now I'm going to have to buy 2 new nanos? There are so many changes in 18.7 and I don't feel like any of this was made simple for the player. Everything from the nano changes to that dumb transportation certificate quest is just tedious.

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Originally Posted by Traderjill

QFT. I totally overlooked the cast cap value because it isn't listed anywhere in the nano description you see in game. Even with this extra bit of info, all of my original statements on the UBT change apply.

Another thing that's bugging me is that some of the changes aren't clear. I logged on to TestLive and I can't seem to locate ICR on my doc or ISC on my crat. I know that some nanos were deleted and some were consolidated but the patch notes are horrible on clarifying what the heck has happened. I'm grateful to Demoder for the TestLive aoitems.com but why isn't this stuff in the patch notes? I have toons of every profession and now I have to go, nano by nano, to figure out what has changed. Apparentely looking at the info in game isn't enough as there are values that matter (i.e. cast cap value) that don't appear in game so I have to use a third party website to decipher the patch.

I understand the concept of 'discovery' but when you've played a profession for some 10 years you simply aren't 'running into' things as you play it anymore. Clear notes, for each profession, stating what was deleted, what was replaced, what nanos were changed, etc would be nice.

Also, about deleted LE nanos and moreso expensive improved nanos: I feel like complaining about a 500m nano is the least of the issues right now but it irks me that these things are just 'removed' when we've paid for them. And then the trader nano line was split and now I'm going to have to buy 2 new nanos? There are so many changes in 18.7 and I don't feel like any of this was made simple for the player. Everything from the nano changes to that dumb transportation certificate quest is just tedious.

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Don't forget that we now have to buy the Improved Instinctive Control, because the Alpha/Beta Nano is gone for good. So while we could get an endgame nano for free (unless you were lazy), you now have to pay probably around 400M for a new nano. THIS really gets me going. Not to mention that we lose 50 Ninit as well.

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Originally Posted by Baby

Don't forget that we now have to buy the Improved Instinctive Control, because the Alpha/Beta Nano is gone for good. So while we could get an endgame nano for free (unless you were lazy), you now have to pay probably around 400M for a new nano. THIS really gets me going. Not to mention that we lose 50 Ninit as well.

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You mean these alpha and beta "nanos"?

Edit: Disregard this post as an AOItems bug makes it not always display the latest names of templates. Will have it fixed shortly.
Edit2: AOItems fixed. Still disregard this post, as it's no longer relevant.

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Originally Posted by Demoder

You mean these alpha and beta "nanos"?

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Demoder you almost had me figuring this out.. now I'm lost again.

My Nanite Instinctive Control got replaced by a Dot (Sophisticated Viral Agent.) on TestLive (even says this in the patch notes). Nanite Instinctive Control was originally the Beta Box nano for doctors.

So what does this mean? I have to reupload the Beta Box and I'll get Nanite Instinctive Control back or is it that they haven't updated the description for what is uploaded to the new Dot or some other option?

Ok, I clicked on that link for Nanite Instinctive Control in the Beta link you posted and it took me to Sophisticated Viral Agent. So they just didn't update the text description for the Beta box and looks like Baby is right in that we'll need to buy the weird looking nano (at least I will because I was fine with the self-only APF version).

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Originally Posted by Traderjill

Demoder you almost had me figuring this out.. now I'm lost again.

My Nanite Instinctive Control got replaced by a Dot on TestLive (even says this in the patch notes). Nanite Instinctive Control was originally the Beta Box nano for doctors.

So what does this mean? I have to reupload the Beta Box and I'll get Nanite Instinctive Control back or is it that they haven't updated the description for what is uploaded to the new Dot or some other option?

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It means we just found a bug with AOItems, because when I click "Nanite Instinctive Control" on the beta box, I get the updated "Sophisticated Viral Agent". So.. AOItems isn't always using the latest name of a template, it seems.

I will have this fixed shortly.
Edit: fixed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Traderjill

Demoder you almost had me figuring this out.. now I'm lost again.

My Nanite Instinctive Control got replaced by a Dot on TestLive (even says this in the patch notes). Nanite Instinctive Control was originally the Beta Box nano for doctors.

So what does this mean? I have to reupload the Beta Box and I'll get Nanite Instinctive Control back or is it that they haven't updated the description for what is uploaded to the new Dot or some other option?

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Click through on the Box's page and it shows you Sophisticated Viral Agent, so they just haven't updated the box's info.

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Originally Posted by Esssch

Click through on the Box's page and it shows you Sophisticated Viral Agent, so they just haven't updated the box's info.

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Yeah I saw that right after I posted and updated my post :P Update your gimp enfo on Test and come tank beast for me.

For any confused souls reading the past 6 or so posts: AOItems had a bug which made it not display the latest template (item, nano) name in some cases. This has been fixed.

10. Did Biological-Digital Conversion get removed and the remaining doctor meep get turned into self-only? I can't find B-DC on my doc and noticed that the encode dna sequence was self only now.


the lower team grid for docs is now the same cast time as Biological-Digital Conversion was(60s)

For those of you that get annoyed by my long posts, just stop here because this is just me giving my thoughts/feelings about what's going on with the game at the moment.

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I came back to game 2-3 months ago after taking an 8-9 month break. I'm not sure why I resubscribed, to be honest, just one day I found myself on my account page adding a month's gametime to my primary account. After a couple of days, the reality of the situation is that despite my annoyance with communication and many other things (on Funcom's end) I was having a lot of fun. There wasn't any new content but I was having fun with the old stuff. It wasn't more than a week or so in that I'd resubbed my 2nd then my 3rd account... back to business as usual. Later on down the line, the nonsense with the NT bug/exploit annoyed me to the point that when the anniversary offer rolled around I was pretty much set on not continuing on in the game. One after another my accounts expired and I posted my 'see you later' thread on the org forums. After being unsubbed for a few days, I realized that I missed playing because I had been having fun. The result was that I decided to go ahead and resubscribe (all 3 accounts).

My outlook on the game had been positive. I met a few new friends and was working closely with a bot developer to get a new flatroll raid bot up and running for US evenings. I decided that it might be fun to mentor a newbie or two so started advertising for that (and took on 2 new guys). Last week, in game, someone contacted me thanking me for the helpful GMI videos and it dawned on me that they'd been made 2 years ago. I put together outlines for not just an updated GMI video but a whole series of "Traderjill's Tips and Tricks". My point here is that, up until last week, I was really enthusiastic about the game again.

And then 18.7 went to TestLive.

I know this is just a game so honestly whether it continues on in its current form or some revised form that doesn't even resemble the game I currently know won't be the end of the world. That being said, 18.7 deflated my enthusiasm for the game... even now since I know what is more than likely hitting the servers in a couple months.

The NPE is cool.. I think it is still a little rough but definitely an improvement on the existing starter area. BUT, I don't see how anything changes about the true new player experience once they leave the starter zone. All of that time spent working on a zone and I don't necessarily feel that it is going to have a significant impact on the overall experience that a new player has when leveling their first toon from 1 to endgame.

I love the trader profession. It has a unique feel and playstyle that I really enjoy. I enjoy it so much that despite what most players seem to think about the profession, it is my primary toon. It is the toon I log when I want to go take out some dynas. It is the toon I'm on when I just feel like chit chatting. It's the toon I grab if I'm going to just run out and help some newbies, etc.

I'm not going to get into DPM numbers because I still need to do more testing (though right now it seems that I've lost DPM compared to pre-18.7) but wow.. my trader on 18.7 plays like a caster. I feel as if I have to choose between participating in a constant race from one nano cast to the next as if its a pure casting class or simply bypass draining mobs which is a freaking profession defining tool. I played Traderjill for almost 5 years and despite the difficulties of being a trader in PvM.. I always had fun playing her. For the first time, I wasn't having fun playing on that toon.

So getting to the topic of this post. I'd like to know why these changes are taking place. I don't need a step by step but I feel that the community is owed a good understanding of the vision. I only used my trader as an example but so far I can say similar things about my soldier, doctor and my fixer. These toons now feel broken and I'm not just looking at it from a pure DPM perspective. AO, for me, was never always about just doing the most damage.. perhaps that's why my main toons always fell into the category of support. Logging on to a toon and being able to experience a unique style of play.. the concept of profession defining tools..that is one of the endearing qualities of Anarchy Online.

There was a big deal made, not so long ago, about not insulting the devs on the forums. No requests to fire anyone, no statements that they're incompetent. I strongly believe you shouldn't personally insult people, regardless of the medium you're using to communicate. Sometimes the results of their actions, however, make this tough to do but I'll do the best I can.

When you care about your customers you communicate clearly, minimize inconveniences and partner with them so you can do your best to provide a service or product that fits their needs within reason.

Some of the changes coming in 18.7 are just downright insulting and inconsiderate:

- The transportation certificate quest, for example, might be necessary due to some backend technical issue but it could've been done better. There should be two options. One that is a "just give me the darned certificate" quick chat with the NPC and the other that is a one time mission (maybe similar to the current quest) that awards a daily mission sized xp/token bonus at the end. In one simple instant you would've taken most of us from being annoyed by having to do it to like 'YAY, free xp/tokens'. And how about something in our Character info that tells us if we've done the quest on that toon or not?

- So you decide that there will only be 2 doctor grid nanos instead of 3 (1 team and 1 self).. ok that's fine. But if you're going to just remove Biological-Digital Conversion you could've at least done a check and provided us with Digitizing Sequencer if we didn't already have it. Now, I'm going to have to go out and get new nanos for at least 3 of my doctors when I already had the top nano in the grid line.

- Hey, you want to remove Nanite Instinctive Control and replace it with a Dot. Ok.. no problem. How about giving us Weird Looking Instinctive Control if we didn't already have it? Now, again, I'm going to have to buy those nanos on 2 toons to replace something I already had.


- Completely changing the way vet shop beacons work so that, on at least a couple toons, they're useless to me? How about giving me the option to get a refund of my vet points by selling it back?

I could go on but these are examples off the top of my head. Will leaving things as they are on 18.7 kill me..no? But if you would've done it differently you would've turned me from a detractor to a supporter. And the funny thing, is that it wouldn't cost you anything on your end but it would make me feel as if you value me as a customer and value the time I spend playing your product.

Ok.. and then there's just things that, for me, fall in the "WTH is going on here ?!?" category:
- Removing the pre-made implants from the neutral shops
- Profession locking shops
- Recall beacons only usable when not in combat
- The whole design of ICC (buildings just spread all over the place randomly)
- Removal of the paid point vendors (are we being compensated somehow for that?)
- Everything is practically shop buyable but not going to be affordable by the people that'll need the stuff most (newbies)
- One subway.. everyone hanging out in ICC singing campfire songs? What happened to the conflict?