18.0.4 Update Notes

I suspect, as Means said the LMN 'exploit' is now covered the bosses are either pinned in place or will warp back to their start points instead of getting stuck. Means is no fool, he wouldnt have allowed LMN to work in there again if he hadnt covered all the angles...

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Originally Posted by Hacre

How about not applying the raid lock until the Deranged Xan is killed, or at least both secondary bosses?

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Bump for that =)

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Originally Posted by Hacre

Since when did calming something for 45s every 10 minutes make anyone overpowered? Unless you walk in with 12 Shades on crack and thus can destroy two of the bosses within 45s, which I highly doubt, all it functions as, is some short term crowd control should a problem occur.

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this nano is great, really, but calm/aggro mechanisms are weird in AO...

. calm a boss and stay in agg range = boss aggs again once nano effect stops, and your team had 45 seconds to rebuff / heal / save their ass.

. pull and calm a boss in some corner without line of sight with team and far enough to avoid proximity area aggro and you have a boss that won't aggro anymore unless you come hug him.


and about "other" professions, i think FC missed something here about some professions specifics nanos / skills.

today for 12 man we need (in best case) :

- stuns
- anti fear
- reflect
- heals
- (DD)

they should add some nukes on bosses (some work for MPs then), or adds spawns (like keeper in albtraum) or sneaked items/mobs (\o/ advies), etc...

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Originally Posted by Novaelis

. pull and calm a boss in some corner without line of sight with team and far enough to avoid proximity area aggro and you have a boss that won't aggro anymore unless you come hug him.

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Well hopefully this has been fixed now. Wouldn't be an issue if mobs reset to their original spawn point a few seconds after being calmed, like they used to.

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Originally Posted by Means

- Should Fabio be out of position in Sector 42 he can now be returned to his post by speaking with him.

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so will it now be possible to spawn the ac in the originally intended way without crashing sec42?

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Originally Posted by Hacre

Since when did calming something for 45s every 10 minutes make anyone overpowered? Unless you walk in with 12 Shades on crack and thus can destroy two of the bosses within 45s, which I highly doubt, all it functions as, is some short term crowd control should a problem occur.

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Problem is that a crat can calm BOTH Hands in a side room, then tank can pull to center, all within those 45s.

Once everyone is out of their line of sight and the calm runs out, they don't reset, they stay there.

Thus going straight to Xan. I've seen this done.

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Originally Posted by Means

I do not feel that the ability to calm ANY boss is a central part of the Crat toolset. The nanoline is not called "Boss Calms"...that is what someone else called it. I respect the idea of a "panic" button...but that is not how it is being used. The ability to drag parts of an encounter off in a corner to invalidate their presence was never the intention of this nano...I am pretty certain those who used it this way know that too. The fact that it could be done in another way by exploiting instance team mechanics was not any validation for this action...neither was posting it on the open forum going to win you any points. Should I feel like making a boss that can not be "paused" at any time... I will. I never wanted this nano in as I feel it makes a joke of pvm. Period. That being said no adjustments are going to be made at this time and currently every boss in the game should still be able to be victimized by this ridiculous nano. Some of you might not agree with my opinion of this nano...I can live with that.

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As a 220 crat, I agree with him, between the area calms, the ridiculous nano, and stuns, PvM is not really a challenge for the most part.

When the calms no longer worked in the instance, I considered a FIX to a bug, nothing more. Others called it a nerf, well... shame on you for wanting Means to give you phatz on a silver platter without putting any real effort to earn it.

Besides that, today I found out TWO people have done that instance, keeper+doc, and even though it took them a while to kill the Left Hand, then pulled the Xan (and avoiding the fight with the Right Hand altogether) they succeeded.

12-Man instance, done by 2... oh come on!

In my last team before today's downtime another player said they were nerfing the instance.

The problem is that once an instance is released and practically can be done with 1/3 of the numbers announced since before the booster was released (official ao site clearly states 12 man instance, not 3 man instance)... players get used to it, accept it and just throw their hands up because it's not popular to say "Hey it's too easy, make it a challenge"... because someone wil say "No don't! it's perfect! (because now I can get more phatz because less people to share with yay! greed ftw!)"...

Once you hit 220, AI 30, done with research... the Xan items are pretty much the last thing (besides beast stuff, thank god for the upcoming instance) you need to finish up your character.

Overall LoX is a good booster pack for the high levels, most of us have more than one 220's to keep us occupied for a while.

However nobody is perfect... Area B fence jump...Calmable left/right hand...unable to move when leaving team inside Vortexx instance when you are warped out... double HHAB equiping... pathing exploit inside 12man instance (door), which I think is the dev's fault, not the players, we found a safe spot, you should fix it and let us panic "Oh man I still have aggro! heeeelp!"...

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Originally Posted by Windguaerd

Problem is that a crat can calm BOTH Hands in a side room, then tank can pull to center, all within those 45s.

Once everyone is out of their line of sight and the calm runs out, they don't reset, they stay there.

Thus going straight to Xan. I've seen this done.

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Which has reportedly been fixed and one of the changes in -this- very patch. So I don't get what your issue is?

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Originally Posted by Windguaerd

As a 220 crat, I agree with him, between the area calms, the ridiculous nano, and stuns, PvM is not really a challenge for the most part.

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I agree that some raid encounter bosses should have stun proc resist, they're a nice soloing tool but yes, stun procs arguably make some encounters too easy, particularly in the presence of multiple Crats.

Area calms? Lol, really? Seriously? They're -occasionally- useful at best. Come on now. Do you want to complain about single target calms, roots, snares and init debuffs too? What exactly is it you think Crats should do, if apparently a crowd control profession, shouldn't be able to crowd control?

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Originally Posted by Windguaerd

When the calms no longer worked in the instance, I considered a FIX to a bug, nothing more. Others called it a nerf, well... shame on you for wanting Means to give you phatz on a silver platter without putting any real effort to earn it.

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It's nothing to do with greed. It's everything to do with wanting something fixed properly, as outlined in many posts on the subject. Suggestions made like make it so that mobs reset to their original position a few seconds after being calmed, like they used to, for example. A proper fix, doesn't involve just nerfing a part of someone's toolset by rendering it useless. If (J)LMN had a regular calm duration, I'd absolutely agree with you. However a short, 45s oh crap tool isn't over powered if it can't be exploited like it could be before.

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Originally Posted by Windguaerd

Besides that, today I found out TWO people have done that instance, keeper+doc, and even though it took them a while to kill the Left Hand, then pulled the Xan (and avoiding the fight with the Right Hand altogether) they succeeded.

12-Man instance, done by 2... oh come on!

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Again, hopefully the fixes outlined for this patch, will negate that.

I find it funny when a player base who's constantly whining for something better for their characters, starts to complain when encounters start getting too easy. It's easy to blame the devs but the fact is that all that ubah gear/nanos that everyone screamed for so they could wtfpwn in BS/towers is what's made encounters pathetically easy. Not only that, but I'd like to see any of you design an instance that a few hundred thousand people couldn't, given time, find a way to make it a joke to complete. Yes, it's sad that 12-man can be done with 3 people, but I blame us (and yes I am including myself in that statement ofc) for that. Personally, I'd like to see FC swing the biggest nerf bat ever made and knock us all back to pre-LE stats/nanos... maybe then we'd have a challenge on our hands. Seriously, how hard can anything be with 4k+ evades or the ridiculous DD that most profs can do these days? Everyone says they want a challenge, but in the end we all look for the easiest way to do something. Once a sploit is found, the info is spread around and that becomes "the way" to do the encounter. FC tried to give us a challenge... clearly we didn't want one.

/end rant

flame away

Well its all fine and dandy when there are alot of people needing the loot to make it harder... but what I see happening already is that players got their deck upgrades and symbiants and are not going to come back. Even now, your teaming options are very slim, and you sit on lft for hours trying to get your reflects, stuns, heals, whatever. Heaven forbid that you are one of the worthless professions for this pf like nt, mp, advy.

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Originally Posted by Means

- Added buff reward for those who complete the Elder Hall instance. (Not related to the mission. Will happen at every completion of this instance.)

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Hope BS don't delete this buff :p

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Originally Posted by Means

Should Fabio be out of position in Sector 42 he can now be returned to his post by speaking with him.

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Not that it matters, s42 hardly runs if at all; unless you're in Spartans' Org.
the level of difficulty makes this so. (Could use Operation Short-Bus imo.)

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Originally Posted by Means

You will no longer have to complete a quest line to access "Inside the Machine". Those who have already completed this quest and have received their "Dust Brigade Security Codes" will now find that this item will now transport them to the DB instance from anywhere on RK and transport them BACK to a city of their side once outside the instance.

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w00t?

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Originally Posted by Xyphos

Not that it matters, s42 hardly runs if at all; unless you're in Spartans' Org.
the level of difficulty makes this so. (Could use Operation Short-Bus imo.)

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Or Czech Anarchy.

What it could use, is Operation Get Off Your Butt And Coop With Someone to do it by more people and less Operation Cry On Forums.

Wow, nice to see which professions FC is actually listening to those days. Crats whine all over the forum because ONE boss in a new instance is not calmable, and they get it fixed within two weeks. Don't upset the crats, because they still have a reason to play, unlike many other professions, that must be what they are thinking.
I wish Funcom was equally eager to fix bugs and concerns of other professions as well.

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Originally Posted by Xyphos

Not that it matters, s42 hardly runs if at all; unless you're in Spartans' Org.
the level of difficulty makes this so. (Could use Operation Short-Bus imo.)

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No, it's just been the bad combonation of a raidforce that doesn't quite know what they're doing in there anymore, and a raidleader that doesn't really care.

Yay for a broken patch again. If this is working as intended .. Right hand morphs you .. you go to remove silvertail or birdie and boom! You were attacked with nanobots from Strange Mist for 36000 points of energy damage. You died of nano program damage! Strange Mist forces your NCU to run Griefer Killer... We managed to kill it on one team but only because we were lucky after we wiped once due to morphs we didnt get morphed again.

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Originally Posted by Means

- You will no longer have to complete a quest line to access "Inside the Machine". Those who have already completed this quest and have received their "Dust Brigade Security Codes" will now find that this item will now transport them to the DB instance from anywhere on RK and transport them BACK to a city of their side once outside the instance.

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I assume that new players will still be able to complete the quest and get the new, teleporting security codes if they want?

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Originally Posted by Izus

I find it funny when a player base who's constantly whining for something better for their characters, starts to complain when encounters start getting too easy. It's easy to blame the devs but the fact is that all that ubah gear/nanos that everyone screamed for so they could wtfpwn in BS/towers is what's made encounters pathetically easy. Not only that, but I'd like to see any of you design an instance that a few hundred thousand people couldn't, given time, find a way to make it a joke to complete. Yes, it's sad that 12-man can be done with 3 people, but I blame us (and yes I am including myself in that statement ofc) for that. Personally, I'd like to see FC swing the biggest nerf bat ever made and knock us all back to pre-LE stats/nanos... maybe then we'd have a challenge on our hands. Seriously, how hard can anything be with 4k+ evades or the ridiculous DD that most profs can do these days? Everyone says they want a challenge, but in the end we all look for the easiest way to do something. Once a sploit is found, the info is spread around and that becomes "the way" to do the encounter. FC tried to give us a challenge... clearly we didn't want one.

/end rant

flame away

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So you say players are guilty for badly thought out encounters because they acquire all the best gear the game provides them with?

I would have thought that keeping the Left/Right hand in center, uncalmable and maybe adding some spawns (like w Beast) during the fight with the hands would make it challenging enough.

When Means said there was a penalty for staying in the side rooms, I assumed that you may get debuffed/rooted/snared/ncu wiped.... not some crazy 36k nuke which is more than twice my health, instant death. That is not a challenge, that is suicide.

The intention was good, the execution.... well, you can guess my opinion on this change.

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Originally Posted by Windguaerd

I would have thought that keeping the Left/Right hand in center, uncalmable and maybe adding some spawns (like w Beast) during the fight with the hands would make it challenging enough.

When Means said there was a penalty for staying in the side rooms, I assumed that you may get debuffed/rooted/snared/ncu wiped.... not some crazy 36k nuke which is more than twice my health, instant death. That is not a challenge, that is suicide.

The intention was good, the execution.... well, you can guess my opinion on this change.

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Means have stated in a different thread (like 2 min ago) that the 36k nuke was not intended and will be fixed asap. The smaller DoT was intended though.

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Originally Posted by Windguaerd

I would have thought that keeping the Left/Right hand in center, uncalmable and maybe adding some spawns (like w Beast) during the fight with the hands would make it challenging enough.

When Means said there was a penalty for staying in the side rooms, I assumed that you may get debuffed/rooted/snared/ncu wiped.... not some crazy 36k nuke which is more than twice my health, instant death. That is not a challenge, that is suicide.

The intention was good, the execution.... well, you can guess my opinion on this change.

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The 36k nukes is a bug that will be fixed in the next update. Not intended. Seems like we might actually get to focus on more important issues in the near future :)

The cause of the nukes are reflects (ie: someone hits you and you reflect some damage back on them). IF possible do not use these in this instance and the nuke should not affect you. For those of you without this option this issue will be corrrected as soon as possible.

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Originally Posted by Poufpaf

Wow, nice to see which professions FC is actually listening to those days. Crats whine all over the forum because ONE boss in a new instance is not calmable, and they get it fixed within two weeks. Don't upset the crats, because they still have a reason to play, unlike many other professions, that must be what they are thinking.
I wish Funcom was equally eager to fix bugs and concerns of other professions as well.

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Removing the calm from that instance (and others) was never a long term plan but a quick band until we could get a more robust fix in. This fix seems to be working well. Now just one more small problem with the instance and we can leave it relatively alone.

We ARE eager to address the perceived issues with all professions. This was not about class balance but making the last LOX instance work remotely as it should.