Oh lord.
Yesterday I came across an Engie who actually DID ask for tradeskill buffs, and ATROX Engie (which is why he/she/it was asking for buffs).
If that isn't the worst breed for an Engie, I don't know what is. And it was packing a beam.
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Oh lord.
Yesterday I came across an Engie who actually DID ask for tradeskill buffs, and ATROX Engie (which is why he/she/it was asking for buffs).
If that isn't the worst breed for an Engie, I don't know what is. And it was packing a beam.
Actually soyuz what I described is exactly what I do. I have not spent a single ip in bodydev since lvl 15. Infact I have not spent any ip in evades at all. Even though I get critted alot when I am getting attacked by a mob I still manage to survive. since my base hp is around 1k. and I have a 1k token board and implants for maxlife I only have 2.2k hp. and I do just fine with that. fine enough to reach lvl 128 for the time being. So just to make my point clear body dev might be important if you want to be a frontline Soldier/engineer. but most of us could do just fine without it.Quote:
Originally posted by Soyuz
Having had my ass handed to me on more than one occasion by a mob that just happened to aggro me from the next room, I have to say that Body Dev is pretty important to an Engineer. Evades I try to keep high enough that I'm not being critted every other fight, but that's still quite costly.
Heavypacker is spending a lot of IP to keep those combat skills up though. When I started playing my Engineer (you know, in the first ten levels where the IP flows like water) I used a Sleekmaster Classic dualled with a Sleekblaster, and did very decent damage indeed. To be frank, I wondered what all the fuss was about, and why everyone complained that the Engineer was gimped.
Then the IP got tight, and I realised I couldn't put IP into Pistol, SMG, Ranged Energy, Flingshot, Burst and Multi Ranged every single level, so I bought a Desert Reet and was happy enough with that for a while. It wasn't long before I came to the conclusion that even two dark-blues was too many, and switched to a Khemo-Tech Model 200, resetting a bunch of skills in the process.
Now, at level 40, even Ranged Energy seems like an extravagance I can't afford. I'm using a PNG Tactical, which only requires Pistol skill, and hoping to find myself an Original Electronicum someday. All my IP goes into nano-skills and tradeskills, to keep the bot up to date and fully trimmed.
A lot does depend on your play style though. I keep my spying skills halfway current, mostly so that I don't have to abandon underground missions where you can't target mobs through doorways. There's nothing like running the length of the planet, hopping through half a dozen whompas, just to find that the mission's a type you can't handle because of the layout. Likewise it helps with the main room sometimes. It's expensive, but often worth it, and in any case I'm a long way from maxed there. If Heavypacker hits on a weapon combo that works for him, then good luck to the guy I say. If it doesn't work out, that's what IP reset is there for.
Otherwise, yes, it's a pain keeping five tradeskills and three nano skills up to date, plus the rest of the folderol that you need to solo your way across Rubi-ka. In general those Engies that have gone the combat route have done it via IP reset at very high levels, where Slayerdroid Transference is available. My general advice to most Engineers would be to put your IP into Pistol, and maybe Flingshot, since many guns use it. Leave multi-wield to the Adventurers and hybrid weapons to the Soldiers, since they have the skills and the IP to do it.
Cheers,
~R~
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AO engineer = a test in how much patience you realy have
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that little rumour you heard about me well
it's true, I am a masochist I keep my engineer as my main
http://www.anarchy-online.com/charac...me/plasmatorch
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Main Entry: AO Engineer
Pronunciation: ay-oh en-gin-ear
Function: noun
Etymology: International Scientific Vocabulary, from Cathern "plasmatorch" Gomes,died how many times???????
Date: circa 2002
1 : pleasure in being abused or dominated : a taste for suffering
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one question still burns inside my mind
whay are traders trying to be enigneers???
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Date of registration :2001-11-23 22:27:11 UTC
Account status :Open until 2002-12-18
:Subscription is cancelled
Next billing :Not scheduled
Soyuz, your sig looks familiar.
Are you a lawyer working out of Boston?
Running a few meetings for another orginization on the side?
Do you know what PGP stands for?
Sorry, I'm an IT pro working out of SE England, although that does mean I know what PGP stands for. Will one out of three do?
:)
Cheers,
~R~
Ok, perhaps it's time for a summary - most of us agree that engineers should get a boost to their tradeskills because they are far behind traders even when they are second best.
Most other professions is good at special areas, but there isn't that huge step between first and second as there is between traders and engineers conserning tradeskills. Soldiers is also going to get a SMG/Rifle buff, but a little smaller than the one for fixers/agents, so by giving engineers a buffline isn't going to be unbalancing.
There is two ways to do this, one stacking line (can be used with other buffs) or on unstacking (can't be used with other buffs)
1. Give Engineers a buffline that is almost equal to the traders buffline, but it should not stack (isn't possible to doublebuff) - this need a lot of concentration at tradeskills so his combat skills will suffer from this. It should also be impossible to remove that buff (again to prevent to trim your pet way above your level, but a terminate should remove it).
OR
2. Give Engineers a buffline that is half of traders buff but it can be used at the same time (stacking). The buff can be +20,+40 and +62. This will benefit all other professions using tradeskills, and will also make engineers useful in tradeskills teams and not just beg for buffs as they do today.
The best solution I guess is the second one, because this will make traders and engineers a perfect tradeskillgroup, both can buff and help each other - in real life I really haven't seen any salesman or engineer working alone, they need each other, and they should also need each other in AO - as it is today can the salesman do all the work by themself... strange...
I wonder when any of the funcom employees will comment this issue? If they don't give engineers a buffline I really want to know why, I find it really strange that a trader can work all by themself - and make much better weapons and utilities much earlier than engineers if they want to.
Cosmik or Cz - do u have any comments? please...
(BTW: Do u know it's really hard to find meastroes, most of traders have to ransack/deprive, perhaps that's why engineers don't ask for it much, and, it last only 30 minutes)
Plasmatorch, no offense, but just because the skill is dark blue doesn't mean it isn't necessary.
One thing I very happily discovered recently was the effectiveness of Engineer "blind" auras. Things like Disruptive Photon Absorber, etc. They all require PsyMod. That is a dark blue skill for Engineers. However, these auras are extremely powerful. The WEAKEST one reduces the AR of every enemy around you by 370. The next one reduces AR by 640. -640 AR for an enemy has the same effect w/ respect to crits and misses as if you had +640 evades. However -640 AR is even better than having added evades because the lower AR means that even if they do land a hit, it extremely reduced damage. I'm really surprised I don't see more Engies using the blinds; PsyMod is cheaper than evades, and the blinds are a lot more effective.
Yep, right up until they are damaged by eitherQuote:
Originally posted by Longyen
However, these auras are extremely powerful. The WEAKEST one reduces the AR of every enemy around you by 370.
You
Your bot
Your damage shield
Your reflect shield
So they are really good when we are running away (and assuming we dont have a pet (or its not on guard) and neither our reflect or damage shields are running.)
Then theres that really cool bit in the manual where it tells you not to invest in skills not suited to your class (i.e. not green) 'but hey' said FC 'lets base a lot of nanos off those dark blue skills' (I realise that most professions are effected by this last point)
Blinds wear off when the mob gets hit? Like a root? That sucks.
Well, doesn't matter anyway. Had a run in with GM Longshot tonight when I petitioned. First he gave me the usual run around about "feedback@anarchyonline.com" or whatever. Then he proceeded to tick me off. Long story short, I'm outta here.
Funcom, you can take my account and shove it. Neocron Beta just started, over the next few days I'll be giving away my stuff.
Engies should be the outright best in tradeskills end of discussion no trader can provide a logical arguement against that. And don't call something funcom says as logical because we all funcom would never actually do something logical.(scope fiasco, mission terminal nerf, boss loot, level requirements etc)
The solution: 20, 40, 80+ self only buff for engineers. Traders still better when both self buffed but engies are superior when got trader buffs as well. AS IT SHOULD BE.
end of discussion you can lock this thread now.
Ohhh and one more thing make maestros 2 hours long so i actually have some time to build stuff before i commence another epic buff begging quest.
3 weeks now and counting... just want to hear from Funcom what the role for engineers really is...Quote:
Originally posted by Cosmik
Just wanting to let you know that I'm keeping an eye on this discussion. I'll also make sure the tradeskill designer sees it. :)
Ok in the community forums (Community Answer 6) Cz let it slip he plays an Eng. So I took the opportunity to ask him if FC were looking at this thread. This is what he said.
Warlock, nope, not involving myself in profession specific threads. I know Cosmik is dealing with the Engi vs Trader issue, and know there is progress and plans, but no public details yet.
This comment doesn't necessarily mean, that we (Engis) will get some love. As I expect the story to go, probabely the Traders are going to get a new buff line (Drain 'tradeskill' - to be executed on Engineers only) to make them independent from those annoying Engis. :D
Due to the fact, that poor Traders are so utterly gimped (in tradeskills) the skill cost for Comp Lit is going to be reduced to compensate for that.
As this is of major importance to the Trader profession, pet pathing will be delayed until 15.0 - two months after Shadowlands will be released.
Can you see the dark side of my soul?
Sorry guys, was in the mood for some nasty post - no offense, traders, come over on the other side of the begging fence. ;)
My usual way of playing:
- Log in
- Beg/pay for MC and TS buff to install a decent pet. (MP)
- Beg/pay for a run buff to speed up travel - Engis are slow (Fixer, Adv)
- Beg/pay for tradeskill buffs, if I want to do some (decent)tradeskills (Trader)
- Get 2 solo missions (not enough time for teaming left)
- Chase out and solve one, if lucky get a token
- Log out
Where do I excel, you ask. You can't read, can't you. ;)
So long,
Vermeer
Is it just me, or has this whole debate turned nasty over the last couple of days?
I seem to remember that the official (ie. Krabbus Approved) line in this post is that Traders don't need a nerf, nor do they need their position usurping, but that Engis need some way to make themselves unique in tradeskills or valauble to the tradeskill team. A refreshingly mature attitude, I thought and one which I fully endorsed.
We had the great Unhappy Trader vs. PlasmaTorch slap fight a page or two back. Each one thought that their profession should be pre-eminent in tradeskills and that the other could take a running jump. I was under the impression that we'd squashed that line of argument.
Now I see that there are threads all over the Trader and Engineer forums in which both sides are screaming the same tired old lines:- "We should be better than you, because it's in our description/you should have done your homework better".
I'm sick of the whole thing. If the playerbase can't agree that both professions deserve to be viable, then I see little hope of Funcom taking a blind bit of notice of any of our opinions, because God knows I wouldn't if I had to wade through some of the bile and venom that's sloshing so freely around the profession forums these days.
Rant over.
~R~
Well, I just did it. I built a trader, (several days ago, to specialize in a tradecraft area that I'm ignoring as an engineer,) and I just got the first mind-swap nano for him.
I had to try it out. On a mob, by himself, in a room.
You DO get control of the mob, in the same way that ANY pet class controls the pet, BUT you CAN NOT MOVE FROM THAT SPOT, and you CAN NOT CAST NANO'S, CAN NOT HEAL YOURSELF, Can't even sit down.
I tried to use /pet terminate, and only lost control of the mob...which promptly killed me. (I was still rooted in place.)
I see two potential uses for this. One, delay a fight when you're about to die. There's a root that'd be a better choice, I'm sure, especially as mobs heal faster than we do. Two, use one mob on his buddies in a multi-mob room, but you have to accept that you're stuck in that room for the duration of whatever fight develops.
If this actually gave you the senses of the mob, and maybe the natural weaponry as well, perhaps even the skills, it might be worth something, but I can not recommend anyone rely on this nano.
I am an engineer first, I do not envy traders their mind-swap line.
I still think I should be on par with traders in tradeskills though.
I agree completely...Quote:
Originally posted by Soyuz
Is it just me, or has this whole debate turned nasty over the last couple of days?
I seem to remember that the official (ie. Krabbus Approved) line in this post is that Traders don't need a nerf, nor do they need their position usurping, but that Engis need some way to make themselves unique in tradeskills or valauble to the tradeskill team. A refreshingly mature attitude, I thought and one which I fully endorsed.
We had the great Unhappy Trader vs. PlasmaTorch slap fight a page or two back. Each one thought that their profession should be pre-eminent in tradeskills and that the other could take a running jump. I was under the impression that we'd squashed that line of argument.
Now I see that there are threads all over the Trader and Engineer forums in which both sides are screaming the same tired old lines:- "We should be better than you, because it's in our description/you should have done your homework better".
I'm sick of the whole thing. If the playerbase can't agree that both professions deserve to be viable, then I see little hope of Funcom taking a blind bit of notice of any of our opinions, because God knows I wouldn't if I had to wade through some of the bile and venom that's sloshing so freely around the profession forums these days.
Rant over.
~R~
The more people with high trade skills the better in my opinion...
Lets face it, there aren't many of either of our professions really since 14.2 forward. I need Traders to get those buffs I like so much for doing the skills and Engineers are almost required to raise all the trade skills.
The only reason I'm the one getting the buffs and doing the work is because there seem to be more high level engineers than traders. There are certainly more engineers in general.
So... lets not nerf either profession. I still say declaring yourself uber based to trade skills is laughable. If we push for either making these skills easier (and therefore more widely available to the rest of RK) or getting items that will allow *both* professions to boost the skills a fair amount wouldn't that make us all happier?
For the record, I've been trying to make a QL212 nano (Last Word and Kels Neutronium Plaything) for the last few levels, I have no intention of selling these or doing this for profit. However I am still short of the skills required (almost 1k in QFT, EE) and to even get close I have to change implants and get trader buffs. Incidently I'm a level 161 Engineer and I'm title capped or will be in a level or two.
Anyway... to finish off those discs I need an item which is a rare drop from TIM, which means I'll be another of those annoying people who storms through that Dungeon repeatedly in order to get an item. I swear that dungeon was intended for levels 70 - 90 rather than the level 130+ who seem to be visiting it.
Could somebody from FC who designed where these items dropped please explain to me how this is a good thing??
I'm sure that this will either be ignored or flamed by those who think one or the other should be the best rather than both.
Hmmm i want to know why all of the Profs want to nerf the traders.
- The Soldiers, and the other combat profs want, because the traders kill them in PvP.
- The Doc want(and yes they were success, the team heal nerf).
- Now some of the engies want(because the engie prof. don't have tradeskill buff. And i red all of post, and some engies want a combat nerf(yes yes flame me), becuase the traders better fighters then the engies).
The originally posted engie idea, the trade-skill buff, which stackable with the trader trade-sill buff, is a good idea... And, yes the traders will be happy too if the engies got it. Why because we will need that buff. And yes then the traders will be "begging" for the buffs.
Stop nerfing!!! We want to hear just the constructive ideas, and not the fixing/nerfing ideas(like take away the trade-skill buffs from the traders)!!!
HAve to agree with Sidhelin, nerfing is what we had last year and those that was around then know the hell it caused.
So let us give Engies a boost of some kind. Personaly I still prefer a solution with Engie item only that give a bonus to trade skill, and that is avilable in every bloody store that is at a reasonable price.
Have Engi's make a small time-limited item from components available in shops.
The QL can determine the bonuses, but it should be not hard to assemble. (Say 600ME for a QL200 device?)
The parts should be cheap, but it should be usable by Engineers and Traders at the very least, and to be honest... why not all professions?
Make it so only engineers can build them and give it a life-time of a couple of hours. This makes them effectively buffs, just using an item rather than a nano program.
This gives the engineers something a little fun to build that no one else can, but also something that will benefit everyone without nerfing anyone.
As for any problems, make it no-remove and unique.
Have the timer start when it's worn (activated) once you put them on (into a HUD / UTIL / Ring slot) they cannot be removed (like the old IQ rings) unless deleted or timed out.
Oh... and while I'm at it... Please increase the duration of Maestros up to 1 - 2 hours. I don't really think this will lessen the demand for these buffs, but it would encourage more use of those trade skills.
In reading this as much as i could bare , i think the adding nanos for engineers may not be the right path to take . I think it would be alot simpler to add an item such as the ones that fixers and agents have the boosts nano stats and various other skills . Seems alot less coding would be involved and they could increase in their bonus on a level basis .
As far as having to fight over 1000 other people to get rare items off named mobs , this is the worst way to implament class balance or any fix period . The only thing it fixes is about 2 percent of the total population , the whole player base of any class. While items like these are nice to help fill in the gaps between titles , they should not have to be relied upon in order to cast NFs when your skills are maxed via ips and implants . If your say level 200 with q 200 implants and have the nano skills required by the NF maxed you should be able to cast that NF , not have to spend 8 months hoping that you might get a shot at one super rare itme over camped by people who have no use for the item other than to make a buck. This simply means that the orginal reqs on NFs was flawed and needs to be fixed period .
This same thought pattern should also apply to trade skill items , not every class has the same affinty to trade skills , while one class may have green skills it may cost them 1.5 ips for the frist point where as it may cost another class 1.0 , a rather large difference overtime . The classes such as engineers whos affinty is supposed to be geared toward trade skills should be able to make all items with in the IP and implant maxium. If we are going to require these items to be made only with special rare drops then they need to be made random drops off random mobs to help elimenate the grossly out of control camping thats happening now .
Lastly , recently Funcom took action on an exploit to stop people from duping or expoilting the ablity to gain mass credits from a bug . This was to ensure that econmy remains stable and dosent cuase a gross over charge on items being sold becuase of a massive influx of credits .
But yet we take an item which is of more use to players post 100 and put it on boss mobs or lvl 60 ish mobs allowing for someone in the 40-70 range to become multimillionares over night . Im talking about the PPPE shape hard and soft armors . If you think that duping credits destablizes the economy what do you think giving a lvl 40-70 40 - 50 million credits for an item dose ? This again shows really poor planning on the introduction of new trade items . These should be store bought , or atleast placed on mobs of its q rating to the max lvl of mob in the game . Not just a select rare mob that are not even accesable to the range of players that would benifit the most fromt the item. Having to create and level a second character just to be able to gain items to even be able to do trade skills is at best a joke.
Ferria
164 engineer omni
For the record, HighOrbit, I got one of these..
It took me long, long hours of camping, and competing with others for the spawn.
I think I had to take T.I.M. down twelve or thirteen times before the scope finally dropped. I'm not sure what the 'official' droprate is, but from my experiences I'd suggest it to be ten percent or lower.
With the scope, my skills receive a much-needed boost.
I hope you acquire such a scope too, even if the time spent waiting may grow long indeed. Keep faith in yourself.