How to kill a game - Remove Twinking/OEing

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Originally posted by EarthForce
I consider myself to be a fair person and I don't have a problem with twinking or OEing, and no I have never done any of these (Lacan, you can call me a liar if you want, I'll just call you and idiot in return ;p). If you look at the world's societies, you will always have people with better stuff than you.

OE should have been handled in a way that you could use the weapon/armour/whatever, but have some form of penalty, for example, if my lvl10 Soldier equipped QL200 armour, then my run speed would be decreased.

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Erm...Isn't that what it's doing now? If you can somehow shoehorn your lvl10 Soldier into QL 200 armour, then you'd be penalized 100% of its effectiveness :D

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Originally posted by Lacan
This is really a very foolish debate...

Let me say a few words here...

First,

Kwoung has brought a very supported point of view to the table. The truth is a game that does not allow a player of higher means to use his wealth or power for his own benefit will in essence cause its own players to grow tired and leave.

Now... for those who are against twinking... your point of view is no less important but at the same time you are mearly complaining that someone has the ability to have more than you can at any given time. Now I understand that people who have more money and twink themselves to death "sometimes" act like they own the world... but come on folks, this isnt a pre-school game... unlike in pre-school.. if one kid has 1 kid has "one" toy and another kid has "three" toys the teacher isnt going to divide the toys between the two kids to make it fair.

There is so many analogies which could be applied here...

Anarchy Online is about combat and a war right? Well in that case... whats fair in war?

If you wanting someone for a romantic interest but there is another person thats causing problems... whats not fair in love?

I fail to see any reasoning behind a person against twinking's viewpoints other than a "I dont have it its not fair" attitude.

There is absolutely NO REASON to rob others of the joy of using money "they earned" themselves for their own benefit. Not to mention the fact that I would say a good 98% of people against twinking immediatly start twinking when the opportunity befalls them.

Look at a similar issues... player killing. In another Online game... player killers would hunt down "innocents" in troves... killing them left in right. Now most people would say thats unfair... rude or whatever. Well here's the clencher... those innocents get fed up and they form their own pack and go on a "player killing" hunt. So now the supposed innocents are out player killing as well.

See the picture?

People who can twink should be allowed the ability.. its part of the game... its part of real life. If you went to college for 6 years and you make 90,000 dollars a year it is your right to use your earned wages and buy a corvette or a bwm roadster. If you make it to level 30 and you want to change characters it is your right to give all your belongings to your level 1 and go at it. I mean do you realize how stupid all this is? If you absolutely say you have never twinked yourself to some degree you are a liar.

Whats that you say? You never twinked yourself? Well... your just being crafty with words.... because more than likely someone else helped you somewhere in your journey.. perhaps it was a small token of grattitude.. or just a hand me down from the local guildmate... either way you were twinked at some point yet you claim its "perfectly fair and legit".

Why argue against something you already do in secret?



Both of these points of view aside..there is two major things which matter even more than "twinking is right or wrong".

1: Funcom changed an integral part of the gaming experienice in AO... anyone who's been playing awhile just got screwed with.

2: There are plenty of games on the market which do not allow twinking... why make another one?

I understand that people want a true roleplay experience.. and I understand that people dont want to be cheap or cheated, but this is hardly a perfect world... why do people expect their online world to be perfect as well? Dont people understand that when you leave a console game and go to an online computer game you are dealing with real life people who want to get the upperhand in some way fashion or form? People who want to be the best of the best... the precious few elite among many.

Instead of that.. we have people around here with no common sense screaming "its not fair! I can't have a big gun too!"...

Its a shame most upper level people dont screenshot all the begging requests they recieve from these supposed "Why I've never twinked in my life!" supporters.

Twinking is part of the game....

Twinking is part of real life....

I'm beginning to think the majority of gamers here in these online games are communist party members.. thats how you act you know... communist people want EVERYTHING to be 100% fair.

Do some of you live in communist countries? You must... Americans who are voting against twinking dont even have the common sense to realize that more or less twinking is the whole heart of what America is.

Those of you who dont understand the above statement well thats just too bad... go think about it.

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This is perfect, so I quoted it again. Everyone read through it slowly 3 times so it soaks in.

--Elixoria

Loading 100mill creds on a lowbie char isn't twinking in my eyes but sqeezing a lvl10 char into a ql200 armor is. Of course life isn't fair and war certainly isn't but you can't OE in real life.
Say for instance that you have a nice and shiny gun but the problem is that it weighs about 500kg and you can't even get it to move off the ground so.. you get a crane and lift it up with that. pling! there it is, hanging in front of you and you can shoot like a madman but if you take the crane away it's back on the ground and you cant use it. The crane in AO are the buffs such as wrangles etc. The armors/guns etc. in AO have wear/use requirements meaning that you have to have that or more to use them, not only to equip them. That you could get the stuff on and then still use them although you removed all the buffs/imps has to have been a misstake from FC from the start.

What I think is a problem in AO is that allmost all breeds/profs are more or less alike in stats, the +/- are too low to actually make any real difference imo. Also that there should be more equipments that varies in look but with much the same stats to get rid of the clone-look. But hey.. this is only what I think :)

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Originally posted by Eidolus
Anarchy Online is not about war. It's about paying your $13, or whatever, to play a game where some people cheat and exploit to get ahead (e.g. implant stacking), people bought credits and items "they didn't earn themselves," and made use of temporary things to gain permanent benefits, with no penalties, that their characters should not have had.

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We were told before that stacking was ok so at first this was not considered an exploit by FC staff.

Temporary buffs had that effect on equipping for a year, if that was a mistake then I would really say FC is extremely slow and we should see the expansion pack in 5 to 7 years.

I earned all my credits the old fashioined way but Funcom nerfed that as well.

Funcom now no longer gets my 13$ a month just on enough to give my extra gear to a freind.


Yesiamstoned 143 nt RK2


Edited: (yes I know this sounds like sour grapes, perhaps it is . I want the game back the way it was before they started nerfing everything. This cycle started a long time ago, 14.2 and what i can see coming in 14.4 with level limits pushed me over the edge. The game becomes an avereage game, not the buggy standout with a lot of promise/potential. cya round ) end edit

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Originally posted by Kwoung


Wonderful sentiment, but the fact is that twinking at some level or another is what keeps the vast majority of players around in a game after the initial play.

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Nope, it's the other people that keep players.

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Another fact: It is impossible to keep a game based on grouping and character building fun if it is rebalanced for one on one PvP. The two types of play do not mix at all and need entirely seperate rules.

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Pretty nice dodge around the statement that level 12 uber twinks are blowing what could be a positive pvp experience.

Sad part is, you can twink yet it's still not good enough for some people. You can still plvl in this game very quickly. Hell, you can fly if you only have one buddy helping you

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Originally posted by Kwoung
In my opinion, there should be a way in every game to make it easier the second, third, etc, time around. Otherwise folks will just leave... period.

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Thats the great overall thing about opinions, people don't have to agree with yours.

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Anyways, it has already been proven by another game company that by removing over equiping you will destroy the longevity and fun of the game. Personally I can not believe Funcom is going to follow suit and do it as well after watching what Mythic did to themselves. I think they would have been a bit smarter to follow Verants path and allow massive over equiping, since they have the largest, longest lasting, most dedicated playerbase in one of these types of games ever. Why take the path what will become known as the biggest MMORPG flop has taken instead?

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Overequipping will not make a game that sucks instantly fun for everyone. It will make it more fun for you so you can abuse the mobs easier than fighting at your level, and possibly other people in the game who are not OE'd. The game should be fun and should not need to OE to have fun. Thats the problem with DAoC. It was boring to begin with, OEing won't help. A lot of the 200's in AO have left because it's not fun to replay the game at all, regardless of OE'ing.

A sucky game will suck regardless of OE'ing...the only purpose OE'ing serves is to take the challange out of the game or make the characters more uber so as to get higher quicker and OE some more. It does not make replaying the game fun unless it already has some fun points to begin with.

...but I think it's more at home under Game Mechanics. Moving it. ;)

In what way has the OE changes affected the average player's enjoyment of the game? None. And for people who want to twink? A fair bit is still possible, particularly with regard to implants and NCU, and combined with the fact that 20% gives more leeway at higher QLs than at lower ones, a lot is still possible.

It seems that most people who were severely OEd were PvPers or maybe just plain old-fashioned power gamers. Power gamers are bearable up to a point, after which they are capable of ruining a game (exploiters being the worst case). PvP is another matter.

PvP in the game at present (with the possible exception of Camelot) is *not* what was intended. One day this will hopefully change, but for now 1on1 is what we have.

So for now, the game must aim for a certain level of balance in 1on1 PvP. Of course, I'd rather we just had proper team based PvP working, then profession balance would be more about solo PvM than PvP as it often seems now.

Power-leveling a new toon is still pretty easy if you can throw money at them,OE might slow it down a bit, but level 50 shoiuld still be possible in a few days at most.

Of course not everyone will agree, fairness is after all a perception and hence highly subjectve, but fairness is what this is all about. Pity FCs designers trying to do 7 impossible things before breakfast... including please the entire player base...

Long term exping is so mind numbingly boring, making and OEing twinks gives you something to do.

The other choice is to do missions, missions or more missions.

If they ever make AO gameplay more than "travel in RubiKa to a door, then do a random generated Nethack-esque mission" then you'll notice alot less time being spent on twinks.

You could try out the role-playing part of MMPORPG...

Just a thought. ;)

The OE rules in AO are, in my opinion, nearly perfect. At the high levels, you practically see no affect, because it's impossible to buff yourself more than the OE rules allow for anyway. At the low levels it prevents people from having an unfair advantage over others. I don't care how bored you are; your boredom does not justify you automatically winning in PvP or blasting through the levels other people work through. The replayability in this game is based on profession. If you want a different experience, play a different profession.

In any case, I still have a level 50 trader alt who can use a Q146 shotgun without being OE'd as long as I keep my Ransack and Deprives running and a level 37 Enforcer who can self equip a Q75 Katana , so these rules are very allowing for those who wish to push the limits.

One of the best things about AO's game system is the ability to seriously min/max.

Some of the most fun I have had is spending hours planning implants, buffs, +stat items, etc. to get the gear on that I want and the final set of implants that I want.

I also quit DAoC after getting my first character to level 50 and being the #1 Thane on my server in RvR (that's what DAoC's PvP is called... Realm vs. Realm).

The first time through, the game was new and exciting. But the level grind is boring the 2nd or 3rd time, and when you cannot twink an alt, it has no redeeming value.

AO should dump the OE rules and just let people go nuts and have a blast.

If they feel the need, make the OE rules only apply to PvP.

PvP is so whacked in AO anyway, I wouldn't mind if they just said "screw it!" and let the chips fall where they may.

Well, I rather agree with Luxxan on this. This is a game, it does have rules. The OE rules we have are there to aid in the chase for that mythical beast called 'balance' - it will always evade capture, but to simply give up the chase is to give up the game.

I think that OE broke the back of this game long ago. The Dev's didn't go far enough in 14.2. They sould of disabled OE all together. If your score falls below the requirement for ANY item, it should fall off into your back pack. Plane and simple.