Make an Official Policy on MBing

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Originally Posted by Michizure

Upcoming PvP Changes
In an upcoming update (some time after 18.8.3), changes will be made to how the /assist command and Target's Target functionality work. Specifically, this command and GUI feature will not work if the Target's target is a Player. While this will drastically change how certain PvP venues operate, we feel this change will make PvP feel more engaging and less automated.

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Originally Posted by Michizure

Ah sorry, I forgot to mention that case. It will still be possible to pull the target data if a NPC being assisted. If this change does nothing but benefit cheaters, we do have alternate and additional options available...this is only the first stab.

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Clearly, Michizure has MBing on his mind. Unfortunately, this can't constitute an official policy because Michizure doesn't address the issue by name. I'm simply asking that FC outright states that they consider 3rd party automation a violation of the EULA, and that they begin enforcing this policy.

Once /assist stops working in PvP, it will be easier to sift through humans who are fast clickers and bots that can all simultaneously target one player. This is the perfect time to state that automation is illegal. Let the cheaters know you aren't fooling around. Thanks.

I too, would like to see a clear answer on this.

I'm all behind this!

Im sure you all want this for pvp, which is fine but honestly if they cripple mb'ing for pvm then I'll drop my 5 accounts. I like doing content by myself at my own pace. And contrary to all who believe otherwise, MB'ing can be quite challenging and rewarding. Really fun to coordinate chars. I dont need a clear answer and I dont use it for pvp. But it's not going to bring a wave of players back by removing this.

I'll sub for 5 years if FC announce an official policy.

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Originally Posted by Caloss2

I'll sub for 5 years if FC announce an official policy.

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Even if the policy happens to be Pro-MB? :p

One way or the other, a clear (regardless of how enforceable it is) policy would be a good thing for all.

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Originally Posted by DigitalBath

Even if the policy happens to be Pro-MB? :p

One way or the other, a clear (regardless of how enforceable it is) policy would be a good thing for all.

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Hehe, no the opposite; I think banning people that cheat is better for the game.

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Originally Posted by Caloss2

Hehe, no the opposite; I think banning people that cheat is better for the game.

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Ah, your other post is sadly misleading. Oh well. (Not that I am directly pro or against Multiboxing itself.. It doesn't affect me in any way. It's just not actually cheating and has it's place in most MMOs in the market).

Every playstyle deserves merit and the freedom associated with choosing one is always good. People will whine both for and against things, often without any substance in their arguments.. so I'll kindly bow out until something official shows up.

I would much rather spend 5x more time developing one or two twinks that I could have dual logged (i.e. first dies, second runs in) for war, than spend all that time developing 6 toons which are only marginally better equipped than a levelling char and use borderline mechanical exploits to produce instantaneous kills.

I find that PVP requires 3 things in order to be worth doing:

1. your chance at achieving some level of success is related to the effort you put into developing your char and learning how to operate it (solo effort skill)
2. your team's chance at success is related to the makeup, average effort and coordination (team effort and coordination)
3. your side/faction's chance at success is balanced with the other side's

Anarchy online has, for years, been unable to control the third point, and for a few years now has been unable to control the first two. Basically, inability to provide balance or a positive correlation between effort+skill and success is, broadly speaking, the exact reason why many people have left AO.

The third point, somehow, has seen some fluctuation - and perhaps it is more balanced than we presume.

I'm happy that Michi is tackling the MB scourge. If the /assist thing works, great, if not, I won't be disappointed but I'll keep supporting michi and providing feedback in hopes that he can find an equitable solution.

I'm sincerely hoping that the first and second point will see some value. For a few years now, a 5 agent box completely nullifies any "twinking" effort, and renders almost every single team operative moot.

As soon as instant kills are a thing of the past - then at least Michi will have restored the epic sensational draw that has enamoured all of us who keep coming back to AO: twinking.

My current feeling? Sceptically hopeful.

Saying that you and your game experience is NOT affected by MBing is as silly as saying your life is not affected by, for example, the international oil market.
I do believe Michi has all but make a official announcement, which I hope will be coming soon considering he's already stated where he (and hence his team) stands for.
On the other side, I also believe banning MBers wouldn't be good, since they pretty much pay for a high percentage of the game; instead, give a little grace period. Oh, and on that note, I know that no more MBing will bring more players back. Seriously, I stopped PvPing long ago just because I was sick of MBers. (Although, something needs to be done about the percentage cap on specials as well, it's ridiculous).

i support the multibox use for pvm
but i dislike the mb for pvp, it has ruind the game allot, never realy been my issue but i see most others has the issue and then its my issue to since people stop pvp.

a sidenote from this issue is also the pvp level range, people cant kill people under or over their own faction. its very wrong that a level 220 can kill a level 175..

I believe, official policy is... MBoxing is within rules...

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Originally Posted by Cratertina

I believe, official policy is... MBoxing is within rules...

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i still hope the statement will change to opposite after assist is removed - assisting will only be possible using 3rd-party tools, and is should be treated as cheating

MBing in PvM is a matter of playstyle choice. If I like MBing when I PvM, then I should be able to do that because I'm allowed to choose wether I want to play 1 char or 6 since I'm not doing any harm (yes, maybe I farm stuff easier but that's because I pay for the accounts, so I've done my "sacrifice").

MB should be blocked from PvP, yes. But not from PvM. I honestly think removing MB from PvM is bad choice as it will affect player base and FCs income.

If/when official policies are put into writing will depend on if/how things have changed with changes to /assist, and another tweak or so, have gone Live. With all of that said, I have no intention of changing how PvM is played...these changes will only be targeted towards PvP aspects of the game.

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Originally Posted by Michizure

If/when official policies are put into writing will depend on if/how things have changed with changes to /assist, and another tweak or so, have gone Live. With all of that said, I have no intention of changing how PvM is played...these changes will only be targeted towards PvP aspects of the game.

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Awesome, thanks for the response! My PvM can continue XD

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Originally Posted by Michizure

If/when official policies are put into writing will depend on if/how things have changed with changes to /assist, and another tweak or so, have gone Live. With all of that said, I have no intention of changing how PvM is played...these changes will only be targeted towards PvP aspects of the game.

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Thank you Michizure ...

Emma

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Originally Posted by Michizure

If/when official policies are put into writing will depend on if/how things have changed with changes to /assist, and another tweak or so, have gone Live. With all of that said, I have no intention of changing how PvM is played...these changes will only be targeted towards PvP aspects of the game.

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This is I think, is the right thing to do Mitchi, the main community gripe with MB is that NW is dominated by a handful of individuals, and this is to the detriment of that content being available to the far larger paying community.
The "I has 6 accounts I'm supporting the game so I should be able do what I want" card has now been so over-played and it is clearly invalid and infantile as a defense against what is basically cheating.

I produce and maintain a you-tube channel, well over 50+ now people have either re-subbed or begun subscribing to AO; due to the content of that channel; I base this on in-game tells from those that have done this, and I am being extremely conservative with those numbers; and I feel pretty good about that.
But this does not make me feel "entitled" to be treated any differently by FC or the community, so just having x6 accounts which is a far smaller contribution to the game definitely should not.

I agree with Caloss, supporting the game by encouraging people to multibox isn't healthy (as we can see form the complete lack of NW content these days)

We need to come up with smart ways to increase the game's population (and as a direct consequence of that, profitability) and one of the ways is what Caloss is doing and publicising it in an open and accessible way.

Other ways would be to introduce trial periods of full expansion content, let froobs upgrade for 1 month to ALL expansions, enough gear on it says "must have SL/AI/LE/LoX" for this to be a non-issue for when they revert.

I don't see MultiBoxing as an issue, however, automating game play by the use of third party tools is clearly an issue and also against the EULA. The cheaters has no use for multiboxing if 3rd party automation tools was not possible to use - or lead to account suspension/ban.

Legit use of multiboxing does not use 3rd party tools, and is not cheating as far as I care. As commented before me, the removal of assist will make the most impact on legit multiboxing, and not at all affect the cheaters using 3rd party tools to gain an unfair advantage.