Can I fill in for you?

This is a poll related to the ability to FP. This idea stems from a post by ArienSky found here. The intention of this poll is to find out which Mimics need attention so that Agents can return to their role of "filling in". Since FP is the unique characteristic of Agents this is important for development of the Agent profession. The general idea is that Agents can fill in for missing roles, but this has long been forgotten.

Take each Mimic and rank (from 1 - 10) how well it can be utilized to fill in for the real profession in a team scenario. It should be fairly simple. Give some reasoning. I italicized the professions that are generally considered necessary for team success. Obviously there are no nanos that we could cast (excluding NT nukes) that could make FP helpful in filling in for DD roles, so leave that out of your consideration.

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NT: 8
Effective at keeping the team's nano up, but once the buffs are up your job is done. Also, Kel's is a decent AoE nuke. No good single Nukes. Lacks the SL CC tools.

Trader: 7
Nanite Drains, while not quite as good, accomplish the same job with slightly less effectiveness. Roots function as intended. We have no team Nano Regen abilities. AC debuffs are not nearly as effective, but good enough since they aren't required for team success. Next to no chance of Calming when it is needed. Wrangling debuffs the Agent.

Soldier: 6
Access to buffs is decent. Lack of SL reflect auras makes us less than useful as this Mimic in SL teams. No tanking ability due to lack of HD and only TMS X. Also, damage output of Agents does not hold Aggro (for now).

Enfo: 5
9k Ess allows us to do some tanking. Aggro management can be an issue with inexperienced teams (i.e. AS/FA pulling noobs). Major lack of personal healing and absorbs to tank effectively.

Advy: 5
We can give Morphs, but cannot give Morph enhancing buffs buffs. Healing as Advy is lackluster (half that of a real advy, which is still half again of a doc). Access to root and snare resistance buffs is good. Nowhere near the defense of an Advy, so cannot effectively serve as an offtank.

MP: 4
Heal Pet is extremely useful at low levels, and this is the only reason MP gets a score higher than 1. Evade Buff is ok. Random Nanoskill Buffs if the real version is unavailable or people haven't hunted down 8 hour comps before hand allowing Agents to semi-function in that specific aspect of MPs if one is missing from a team.

Doctor: 3
Doctor healing is too powerful for us to even hope to keep up. Also, Doctors don't generate tons and tons of Aggro in SL. FPable buffs are pale in comparison to a real doc, with the exception of the HD buff and Superior Omni Med. Also useful as a UBT pole and defearer.

MA: 2
Cannot evade tank. Can basically only give evade buff and crit buff. Not unstunnable. Basically no heals. Full use of damage changing, but has little effect on anything except Hecklers.

Engineer: 2
No pets. No access to useful buffs other than reflects, which are not as good as Soldier reflects. No reflects at all in SL. NSD is not required for PvM. No access to Blockers for team PvP. Buffs that we do have access to have better versions in other FPs (EP is the one exception). Addition: Engi Blind Aura is nice for assisting multi-mob tanking in PvM.

Fixer: 1
GSF, Short Hots, sucky NCU buffs, snares, defears. That's it. No long HoTs. No SL Runspeed buffs. No good NCU buffs. Cannot serve as an offtank.

Crat: 0
No pets. No access to AAO/AAD auras. Crit aura does not stack with MoP. Charms are good, but usually take a few casts. Calming is near impossible in SL with RK Calms. No boss calms. No deroots and desnares. No init debuffs (-30 does not count).

Keeper & Shade: 0
We can't FP these.

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Keep in mind, this is not to point out how useful the Agent is in each Mimic, but comparing a Mimic Agent to the real profession. Also, the ranking here is not to list how useful each profession is in a team. Roles near the top can be essentially filled in by an Agent, mostly because they have small roles to fill. Near the bottom, Agents have no chance filling in those roles.

Note: I have most likely ranked some of these incorrectly. If you think this is the case, say so and give reason why. What roles does your profession fill in for a team that I didn't address? Can Agents do that? If yes, how effective are they at it? Again, exclude the DD role you play.

Back when I was doing inf missions as an advy, it was great to have a FP Doc agent in team because of UBT and even slight additional heals (as well as oh crap-CH-button). Combine that with team HP buff and therefore I'd rank doc higher.

Excuse my ignorance but I didn't know agents have access to doc fear remover. I've at times asked agents to FP fixer for 12 man for fear removal. With an enf tank there should be quite enough aggro generated there to let agent use CH.

AI raids aren't a challenge any more, but when I used to do TL5 AI raids with org it was very useful to have a doc agent as backup healer, saved our tank quite a few times back then... These days I'd have no issue doing a ship raid on my TL7 advy with a agent FP doc accompanying me (solo might be slightly too tough). Then again a variety of real professions would quite likely do as well.

Bottom line: Doc is perhaps more useful than you think.

He's not rating it by how useful it is.

He's rating it by how close to the real profession we are.

(That's what I gathered at least)

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Originally Posted by Ayria

He's not rating it by how useful it is.

He's rating it by how close to the real profession we are.

(That's what I gathered at least)

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Yep, and we are nowhere near close to being as effective as a real Doctor. If I were to rank our Mimics in terms of usefulness, Doc would be on top hands down.

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Originally Posted by SultryVoltron

Yep, and we are nowhere near close to being as effective as a real Doctor. If I were to rank our Mimics in terms of usefulness, Doc would be on top hands down.

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i think agents are OVER POWERED!!!!!!!! they need nerf not love.......

lol im just kidding yeah more love for other mimics would be cool. It would make having an agent in team more interestingly.

you forgot being an xp totem @ crats,
in fp you can only give +9%, while a crat can give alot more+ short perks and insurance

No good single DD nukes? At low lvls you have all the ones we used to have in days of yore and they're still better than most SL nukes there :p

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Originally Posted by Blackaura32

you forgot being an xp totem @ crats,
in fp you can only give +9%, while a crat can give alot more+ short perks and insurance

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Real crats aren't XP totems :)

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Originally Posted by Mastablasta

No good single DD nukes? At low lvls you have all the ones we used to have in days of yore and they're still better than most SL nukes there :p

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And they are pale in comparison to your current DD nukes. I'm ok with that, we do DD through other means. Thus, NT scored pretty high compared to a real NT.

Hmmm dont forget Disruptive Void Projector as engi buff which ftw in pvm (-1210 aao blind aura)

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Originally Posted by Drooown

Hmmm dont forget Disruptive Void Projector as engi buff which ftw in pvm (-1210 aao blind aura)

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Added, +1 for Engi.

Bump for everything but Doctor improvements. CH should be removed from the FP list and replaced with the first 1 or 2 SL heals imo. That combined with the upcoming ND changes should bring more balance to the agent profession. Possibly increase the nano cost modifier x2 on mimic doctor.

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Originally Posted by Mahdi007

Bump for everything but Doctor improvements. CH should be removed from the FP list and replaced with the first 1 or 2 SL heals imo. That combined with the upcoming ND changes should bring more balance to the agent profession. Possibly increase the nano cost modifier x2 on mimic doctor.

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Those heals suck. Those heals are level locked to 175+.

More balance to the Agent profession cannot include nerfing the only useful defense until further information is given. More nerfs to a debuff-weak profession without appropriate compensation is called less balance.

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Originally Posted by Mastablasta

No good single DD nukes? At low lvls you have all the ones we used to have in days of yore and they're still better than most SL nukes there :p

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You are right, NT is one of the best professions to be in, thanks to Nullity Sphere :)
Because of HE we also are less likely to run out of nano..

and here it comes:
BUT:

Psychological modifications >= 192
Sensory improvement >= 192
Biological metamorphosis >= 192
False Profession: Nanotechnician
Nano cost modifier +150%
All nanoskills -25
Nano init -2000

the -2K nano init means that using FP you can not use combat nanoes, they are simply too slow.
So at the low levels, Agents can not use the NT nanoes, as they do not have access to Mimic yet.

Psychological modifications >= 777
Sensory improvement >= 777
Biological metamorphosis >= 777
Mimic Profession: Nanotechnician
Nano cost modifier +15%
All nanoskills -140
Nano init -750

Yay, if you have 777 in 3 nanoskills you can use mimic, and you can cast nanoes only 750 nano init slower than the real NT, and having 140 lower nanoskills.

What this sums up to, is that the NT nanoes the Agent can use, especially at the lower levels, are not the same the NT uses.


A low lvl agent goes ENF or MP.
Because of lacking nanoskills they can not mimic, so they only have the option of -2000 nano init.
That means long lasting buffs, such as ENF shields, essence and MP pets (yay, now they even last longer than 20 min.)

A heal with -2000 nano init will not land before you die
A calm with -2000 nano init will not land before you are cut to pieces.

Low level agents can not use combat nanoes Mastablasta, just buffs of other professions.

You are right though Mastablasta, when the agent reaches the point where they can use mimic, they can use other profession's tools in combat.
But that is quite late in the game, a mimic-twink I have heard about did it at lvl 100, I myself was in the late 160s before being able to use mimic reliably.

In conclusion:
even though NT is one of the professions where Agents are closest to the real thing, and actually is playable and fun, it is far from the real thing, especially at the low lvls..

;) Mastablasta, you should just not have mentioned a lvl range, then your comment would have been perfect :)

Kind Regards
-Ariensky

PS. can we get your cataclysm?

Imo agents fill in for docs quite well now. I've done a few raids where agent was the main healer, and they coped quite well. Of course it requires support, as in crat init debuffs and/or engi blinds and good reflect. I'm talking about 12 man and DB2 which I've done with an agent healing, also minor stuff like ai raids, arid rift and neretva quests. With a good enforcer or DD tank (I tanked on NT) CH doesn't draw aggro. Also, I often invite an agent as a backup healer in apf or pande raids, they do their job quite well if there's no doc available, + UBT which advies or MAs can't do.

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Originally Posted by Mastablasta

No good single DD nukes? At low lvls you have all the ones we used to have in days of yore and they're still better than most SL nukes there :p

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-2000 nano init means nukes are useless at low levels.

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Originally Posted by Mahdi007

Bump for everything but Doctor improvements. CH should be removed from the FP list and replaced with the first 1 or 2 SL heals imo. That combined with the upcoming ND changes should bring more balance to the agent profession. Possibly increase the nano cost modifier x2 on mimic doctor.

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It isn't hard to out damage CH at TL7, and I often find my self spamming it against anyone with any kind of 11 second capping special, or with lots of ar for the lower specials and regulars to land.

At TL5... the usefulness of CH could be debated in pvp, it's no question that agents at TL5 are the ranged advy of TL7. If they removed the CS stun from a 170 agents arsenal, that would be the first step towards leveling the playing field for sure, but removal of the only viable defense for TL7 agents is not the right course of action.

Plus, the SL heals reqs are so high, with the healing so low in comparison, you'd be better off going NR2 and using LE...


Edit : Taking another look at auno...

"Restorative Influx" Heals the target of 2097-2837 points damage. .. And increases Max Health by 1500.

So a 3597-4337 heal, effectively. An attack time of 8.5s / recharge of 4s. Requirements of 1556 bio met/mat metta.

It's several steps below CH in terms of HPS, and the requirements are quite high in comparison. As is the attack time (currently not insta castable at full def for a standard 220 defensive agent). I could see agents working with this, if we were given a slight boost to our nano skills through research perhaps, and if the attack time was either decreased, or a new version of FP was introduced that perhaps removed / lowered the nano cast init debuff.

I think the next step towards improving our FP lines, would be introducing a new version of the nano formula. One that gave profession specific buffs based on what we FP, lowered some of the debuffs, and kept the nanoskill debuff about the same, or not much higher. This in conjunction with a viable perk defense, and I could see trading CH away which would lower the prowess of Tl5 agents which are currently overpowered, and improving TL7 agents overall and hopefully really getting to the bottom of our issues as far as FP is concerned.

A proposed idea for the "profession specific FP bonuses" if we went doctor, how about a little Nano C. Init, or Heal Efficiency? Maybe some max health or max nano/nano delta. Perhaps even a lowered -%cost (as active healing costs nano). And for example going fixer would perhaps offer run speed, evades, and some AAD.

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Originally Posted by Calamite

Imo agents fill in for docs quite well now. I've done a few raids where agent was the main healer, and they coped quite well. Of course it requires support, as in crat init debuffs and/or engi blinds and good reflect. I'm talking about 12 man and DB2 which I've done with an agent healing, also minor stuff like ai raids, arid rift and neretva quests. With a good enforcer or DD tank (I tanked on NT) CH doesn't draw aggro. Also, I often invite an agent as a backup healer in apf or pande raids, they do their job quite well if there's no doc available, + UBT which advies or MAs can't do.

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But if you compare the healing power of an Agent with the healing power of a Doc we fall miles behind. Our healing toolset needs updated. We need some Doc SL heals and %heal efficency buffs if we intend to keep up with healing. Even if we got healing power that was half as powerful as CH but could be cast twice as often it would be better than the current 8s vulnerability on our healing.

Correction of absolutely no importance.

FP agents do get a Single SL Runspeed buff from the fixer line.

And I know this suggestion has probably been made a number of times before, however I think simply removing the lock out on the true profession nano would solve many problems. We would be NCU limited anyway, but it would give us more than a single reflect and a heal with a recharge that puts us in a coffin.


/brox

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Originally Posted by Harlss

Correction of absolutely no importance.

FP agents do get a Single SL Runspeed buff from the fixer line.

And I know this suggestion has probably been made a number of times before, however I think simply removing the lock out on the true profession nano would solve many problems. We would be NCU limited anyway, but it would give us more than a single reflect and a heal with a recharge that puts us in a coffin.


/brox

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I think this is pretty cool. I also don't see why Agents shouldn't get up to, say, something like Touch of Kindness from the Doc toolset so they've got something better than LE (lmfaoroflmfaohahahaha) to fall back on when smashed with Remedy Inhibitor. It's not a ridiculous heal for PvP especially with whatever healing nerf we're apparently getting and Agents don't have all the healing eff stuff that Docs do.

PS your sig made me lol.

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Originally Posted by Marinegent

I think the next step towards improving our FP lines, would be introducing a new version of the nano formula. One that gave profession specific buffs based on what we FP, lowered some of the debuffs, and kept the nanoskill debuff about the same, or not much higher. This in conjunction with a viable perk defense, and I could see trading CH away which would lower the prowess of Tl5 agents which are currently overpowered, and improving TL7 agents overall and hopefully really getting to the bottom of our issues as far as FP is concerned.

A proposed idea for the "profession specific FP bonuses" if we went doctor, how about a little Nano C. Init, or Heal Efficiency? Maybe some max health or max nano/nano delta. Perhaps even a lowered -%cost (as active healing costs nano). And for example going fixer would perhaps offer run speed, evades, and some AAD.

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This sounds like awesome idea, and with some thinking it could probably make some (for now) almost useless FPs more attractive. It would also be nice for balancing as FPs That are currently effective would just get smaller bonuses than those that aren't viable right now.