Ideas about gas line hoping end the MMD wars.

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Dec 11th, 2002, 02:55:33
_____Real Kinky Ityn

Ideas about gas line hoping end the MMD wars.

PT1

Simple, once you go out of grace you get flagged for PVP for 10 min. No 45 second disgrace period where you are immune to roots and special attacks because you are standing in 75% under 25% rules. You crossed the line, you made your move you are now flagged for 10 min or untill you die, and vunerable to every type of attack/nano/special, regardless of what gas you are in.

PT2

When more than 10 people assemble within a 40m grid and within 1000m of a tower, all get flagged for PVP for 30 min or untill they die.

Death to llama tactics. Bring the fight with some Huevos de Oro.
Dec 11th, 2002, 04:01:23
_____Real Kinky Ityn

I want to add a little to this, why is there 75% v. 25% gas? Answer, as a safeguard against griefers killing players that have no interest in PVP at the moment or ever. So people that stay in 75% gas have no intention of partaking in PVP and those that enter 25% gas either are interested or willing to risk death to enter that zone. 25% gas exists for people who intend to fight, 75% gas exists for people who intend not to fight. If you build up a large group of people on the edge of a 25% zone what is your intention?

For example, say I own a home out in the country, 20 guys with guns torches and cans of petrol stand just outside property line, the local law enforcement dead at their feet. What is their intention as they look at my home? Should I wait for them to cross the property line to defend myself?

Both of my above suggestions re-enforce this concept, the intent of the player is to attack, the defender should be able to defend, even preemptively. Attackers benefit from this as well, once players go out of grace in a zone they are open to attack, and flagged for the same period.

About grace now and why it exists. Grace is a rather new concept on RK, only been around about half it's existence, and it was created to fix a flaw in the game engine's ability to quickly load graphics on a players computer. It was invented so players zoning into a 25% zone had a chance to fight before they died. This new extended grace exists so that defenders can zone in and actually leave the gas area to rally a defense force. I understand the sense of that, but attackers get the same grace allowing them to waltz deep into a tower complex without risk of attack till they reach the core.

Big what if, what if when you grided to your controller you, instead of spawning at the base of your controller, spawned at some point just outside the gas radius of your tower? What if grace was re-worked, that if you hard-zoned into 25% from 75% or 100% gas (grid to 2ho as an example) you had 15 seconds of grace and if you just crossed a 75/25 gas line inside a zone you get 5 seconds and that's it, enough time to turn around and vacate.

Anyway, these are the reasons behind my thoughts on why the current gas and grace period fails to work in any fashion other than to benefit those who exploit the intents of the rules to their PVP advantage. Their intent is to fight, but they use the rules of those who intend not to fight to their advantage. Not an exploit as in "cheat" but an exploit as in "bending game rules to ones advantage".

I want to see some good fights on RK. All I see are 1 on 1 duels Ala MMD.
Dec 11th, 2002, 04:02:05
____________Psiraven

Switch all the higher level zones down to 25%. Same effect.
Dec 11th, 2002, 04:05:44
_____Real Kinky Ityn

Ya I'm all for that, the best tower fights I've had have been in ESB/UESB.
Dec 11th, 2002, 05:04:47
Wildwal

would be nice.. wouldn't it..
Dec 11th, 2002, 12:23:06
______________Insida

Dont allow heals unless the player are in the same suppression gas zone. A player in 75% should not be allowed to heal another player fighting in 25% and if that player is currently fighting, even if its in a 75% zone dont allow him to get healed unless the healer is in 25%.
Dec 11th, 2002, 17:08:16
_____Real Kinky Ityn

It's not enough. The point is, if you come to fight, you shouldn't be able to hide behind the carebear's defense, same for the defenders, if they are there to fight, they need to be engageable.

The 10+ players in a 40m GS is good, because no matter what, even if you form up 2000m from the tower as soon as you are within 1000m you get flagged. The range would, my guess is, reduced to 10 people in a GS neighboring the tower gas zone, because some outdoor bosses take more than 10 players to take down and are within 1k of towers.

But the idea is sound and it wouldn't be very hard to code. It would also take a lot of stress off the servers in terms of need for crowd control. Battles could start sooner with fewer preperations. You couldn't stage a massive force in saftey, and the docs that heal from 75%, well they couldn't because they'd be flagged.
Dec 11th, 2002, 18:26:44
________________Metu

1. Why just not remove grace all together? It’s a moronic way for Funcom to get around there server lag when zoning into a PVP zone.

If I or anybody enter a PVP zone, IE go into a zone where I am NOT welcome I should be attacked as soon as I pass the line and not like now… Moon a defender for like 30 seconds then go to 75% zone again Rinse and repeat.

So simple, no grace what so ever!

Pass the line = KOS!

Ok you could say… BUT… I was only passing and the turret killed me… Well then learn from it and don’t go there again!

2. 100% lol… What is the point of building a Heavy gun tower that just sits there and watch a member of the other side camping right beside it???

The program code should be like the following…

10 If target = hostile then kill
20 goto 10

What is the meaning of building a defence when your opponent can scout it on a daily basis without being attacked???

At least make it like the towns. If I go to Tir as Omni I will get shot at and it’s my fault due to that I AM NOT WELCOME THERE!!! Is that so god damn hard to implement in Notum Wars???

And if it CANT be implemented what is the point of building a defence since it is not in use most of the hours of a day???

Ya I liked Notum Wars except these moronic things. (Not counting your STONE AGE SERVERS) but if there is a point to fighting then the defence SHOULD intercept ANY hostiles may it be 100, 75, 25 or 5%

And with Hostiles means in my case CLAN (Just so you get it Funcom and don’t make another mess…)
Dec 12th, 2002, 00:10:21
______________Thromp

I really like your Ityn's 1st idea and Metu's 2nd

- 5 seconds Grace when you pass from 75% to 25% land controll zone with 10 minute PvP flag
- 45 seconds when you zone into 25% (cause of lag)

This is beautiful and would end the mmd wars. Gas huggers are the lamest of lame and this would put an end to that for the most part. Did they come to fight or just to be annoying?

During the time that towers are currently at 100% supression they should instead be at 95%, meaning that the Towers will attack all hostiles and the hostiles can not fight back. The oposition should not be able to waltz into your base and have a tea party / scout / emote pissing on your towers without being open to attack. During 95% the towers should attack anyone of any level so that you can't just use a lowbie alt to scout and get around this rule.

Ityn's second idea wouldn't really work as it would be a bit too intrusive upon PvM activities and the carebears would scream bloody murder. It would probably also add a lot of lag as the server would constantly have to check each players proximity to every other players and every tower in the zone every x seconds. The game is already too laggy as it, but if the other 2 ideas are implemented it wouldn't really be needed anyway.
Dec 12th, 2002, 00:42:26
odian102

this invisible border line fighting is stupid. its not a war at all.
Dec 12th, 2002, 11:32:41
ntrox1

75% is there for those who do not wish to PvP. If you are a lowbie and wandering around, and put one foot into 25%, do you want to be tagged for PvP for 10 minutes? I think not! You will find most of the playerbase will leave the game.

25% in all other areas? Again, bad idea. What if you do not want any part in PvP? Simply put, if you want to pvP, you have areas where you can do this. Do not force it upon those who want no part in it.

As for the "carebare" comments I keep hearing, the game is not 100% PvP. You may like PvP, I may like PvP, but you cannot enforce the PvP aspect of the game upon all those who do not want to play the game for that reason.

Yes line hogging is boring. Yes there should be a solution to this. I think its time we looked at it from another angle, one where the people who do not want to PvP are not penalised.
Dec 12th, 2002, 11:43:56
Skymarshal

I would hate to see if the places that have high level mobs, that take multiple teams an hour to kill, got made pvp.

I would probally leave the game :P
Dec 12th, 2002, 13:23:59
Snuble

Well.. Remove the grace and get ganked when you go LD? Oh that happens right :) And then you really need that 1 minute grace.

Now we should be able to hire guards :) Spawn points placed by players :) Now that would be a nice way to take out the low level spies huh?
Dec 12th, 2002, 14:39:16
Patherson

Quote:

Originally posted by Ityn
Ya I'm all for that, the best tower fights I've had have been in ESB/UESB.

The best tower fight I've seen was on NW testserver...
That was fighting!!!
Dec 12th, 2002, 19:00:11
_____Real Kinky Ityn

Well I think the ideas can work with some changes.

Grid in point to tower is outside of tower gas range.

5 sec grace when crossing a gas line inside a zone.

15 sec grace when zoning into 25% gas.

PVP flagged for 10 min after crossing a 25% gas line instead of disgrace.

PVP flagged for 10 min when more than 10 people assemble in a 40m grid bordering a tower zone.

All these changes would protect the rights of the non-pvp players, while reducing the pathetic gas line tactics used in most of these tower fights. It would enforce the intentions of gas zones better than the current system, and reduce the need for crowd control.
Dec 13th, 2002, 10:47:02
_____Real Kinky Ityn

bump for a HOT idea!
Dec 13th, 2002, 16:52:51
Aqua

Simple solution would be, if they cross into 25% gas more then 3 times in 10 mintues they get tagged for pvp for 20 minutes, that will stop all the "look at me I am in 25% opps grace is almost over and I dont' see an easy kill to gank better leave" stuff that is happening.

~aqua
Dec 13th, 2002, 17:08:25
ntrox1

Quote:

Originally posted by Ityn
5 sec grace when crossing a gas line inside a zone.

PVP flagged for 10 min after crossing a 25% gas line instead of disgrace.

Uhuh. So, an adventuring sort wanders through the landscape, then lags into a 25% zone (I have done this many times). After 5 seconds he is tagged as cannon fodder for 10 minutes.

I ask you, does this sound fair? Assume you are that person..
Dec 13th, 2002, 19:53:01
Isadara

Quote:

Originally posted by Aqua
Simple solution would be, if they cross into 25% gas more then 3 times in 10 mintues they get tagged for pvp for 20 minutes, that will stop all the "look at me I am in 25% opps grace is almost over and I dont' see an easy kill to gank better leave" stuff that is happening.

I love this idea. The other night I had a severe problem with a few people doing this to me and other OT at a battle in NLD. It was irritating. If you are there to fight, fight. Stop skirting the gas line.